The Cheese Guild

Whailor · Post by **Whailor** » Fri Dec 21, 2001 2:26 am

Well, here's a newsflash to many:

apply the patches to the game! And also get a fixpack from Baldurash.

Many "cheese" described here are simply bugs in the game. There will always be bugs in software and it takes time to find them and fix them. And people will always also exploit these bugs and glitches. Official patches fix many issues, and the fixpack from Baldurash fixes additional things and thus preventing/fixing many of these "cheese" tactics. Isn't it more of a "cheese" to not apply the fixes to the game and continue to ramble about the bugs and also continue to use them? The big list of "cheesiness" few pages back I probably cut down like 3/4th in size (or even more) after applying the patch and fixpack to the game, also some enhancements. By 'enhancements' I mean the updated AI of mobs, where you just cannot nuke or AoE spell the mobs to death, when they are covered by fog of war. Enhanced AI mobs will move on to you and also use more and different spells. Take your lower level party to Firkraag, who now Hastes himself, buffs, applies protection spells and debuffs the party members and so on. Try to use Cloudkill or something like this on him again and he'll come down on you faster then you can say "Oops". It only takes patch or two to fix the issues..

Additionally - who cares? You paid your hard earned cash for the game, so do whatever you want. If it rocks your boat to set all stats to 25 and do heck knows what else, go ahead. Your game, your right. Additionally, the "DM would not allow this" or "you cannot do this in PnP". So what, this is not a PnP game.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Fri Dec 21, 2001 4:04 am

Originally posted by Dire Faust:
Are you going to acknowledge my cheese, Xyx? Am I not worthy?

Well, I'm not sure this is an award winner, because of the following reasons:

You need one of the most difficult to get items in the game and a level 8 spell. By the time you have both, the "need" for cheese shouldn't be too high anymore.
It's good to cast the Staff's Spell Trap immediately after resting, since the damn thing lasts for 8 hours and protects you against all sorts of unexpected nastiness, including traps.
Simmy will have to soak high level spells, of which only a few are easily soaked (such as Finger of Death). Most offensive spells are area spells.

But yes, it is a nice trick that I'll keep in mind.

[ 12-21-2001: Message edited by: Xyx ]

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Fri Dec 21, 2001 6:05 am

Dire Faust, this is the cheesiest thing I've ever heard...
Does it really work??!
I'm impressed!!!!!!
Unfortunately, running a duo-game (my PC + sweet Imoen) without
clerics I cannot cast restoration!!!!
I'll try sometime.
But, thinking about it, is this cheese anyway???
It seems very smart after all!
Maybe we could consider it "legal" !!!!!
Need some work-around yes, but you can obtain a REAL clone.
You can have someone else casting spells to recharge him,
maybe clerics...

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Fri Dec 21, 2001 7:58 am

Originally posted by Xyx:
I tried out Craig's wonderful bit 'o contingency cloning cheddar, and it works perfectly.

For those who missed it, it works like this:

Have a Projected Image or Simulacrum cast Contingency, Chain Contingency, Minor Sequencer, Spell Sequencer or Spell Trigger.

Select another party member before the clone finishes casting (which will be almost instantly in the case of the contingencies, so you'll have to use the keyboard).

The selected character now opens his/her spellbook for you to construct the sequencer or contingency.
You can even have your Ranger/Clerics build Chain Contingencies this way.

[ 12-07-2001: Message edited by: Xyx ]

I tried this but I could not choose whose spellbook to open. Even if I selected someone else it always opened my rangers spellbook. Am I missing something here?

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Fri Dec 21, 2001 8:25 am

Is it the top player(i e selected when you press 1?) then thats why

A Half-orc · Post by **A Half-orc** » Fri Dec 21, 2001 11:13 pm

I've got some great cheese, haven't tested it though. It's kind of an extension on that Staf of the Magi invis trick. Because thieves can backstab with anything they can be proficient with (even staves), and the SotM gives invis, get a use any item to use the staff, then go behind the enemy, equip it, attack for 5x damage (7 if assassin), unequip, rinse, wash, and repeat! Could be incredibly cheesy, but I haven't tested it yet.

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Sat Dec 22, 2001 2:24 am

I think you're wrong. I have Imoen equipped
with the staff, when she strikes the game informs me that the weapon cannot backstab.

I definitely have to try the Simulacrum + Staff of Magi Trick

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Sat Dec 22, 2001 10:37 am

@Bruce: The Contingency trick is fickle... I could only get my Ranger/Cleric to open his book. He was #6 in the marching order.

@Half Orc: Thieves can only backstab with "Thief" melee weapons (the ones they can use without Use Any Item). Staff of the Magi is not one of them.

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Sat Dec 22, 2001 12:49 pm

@Whailor: You are right most cheese things are bugs (eg. erronous spell implementation or weak AI scripting). But some of them are not obvious: do you agree that that "free set of spells" in Project Image is a flaw?
Anyway I play mostly without cheese and apply the latest patches and all the improved AI. But that is because I like to get more and more challenge.

Dire Faust: I think that is really great! Especially with a SoA (xp cap) mage/sorcerer. Enemy mages tend to cast Disintegrate, Stone to Flesh, Finger of Death and Maze so you can get back some interesting spells.

Littiz: with ToB mages/sorcerers don't need clerics: they can have their own Planetars!

I'm still playing the shapeshifter druid (with no items). Fought my way through Watcher's Keep, but probably give up (improved) Demogorgon.

Some new bugs, what I suffer from (some can be used as cheese):
- poison resistance is lost with shapechange
- slow also slows spell casting (???)
- death ward doesn't protect against vorpal effect (death)
- Iron Skins are removed with spell protection removals (eg. Pierce Magic)

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Mon Dec 24, 2001 9:01 am

I updated the [url="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BG2/files/SR/BG2SR.htm"]Spells Reference[/url] (yes, it moved). Mostly graphical changes, though. Very little actual content added. I'll get to that over the next few weeks (I hope

).

Check out the cheese icons.

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Tue Dec 25, 2001 3:39 am

Finally wore down the Demigorgon.
In SoA I realized that Blinded dragons can't see at all. Technically they are too "fat", so their reduced sighting range won't exceed their "circle" - or it might be, that theirhead is too high to see

I had hoped that the Demigorgon could be similiar, but it is not. Except...when shapechanged to Earth Elemental and attack. The Earth Elemental is so big and has a "long arm", so the Demogorgon actually can't see it (and its stoneskin is not triggered).
Still I needed all high level spell slots to and some luck to clear the scene and able to cast Magic Resistance and some Nature's Beauty without interruption.

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Tue Dec 25, 2001 4:15 am

Demogorgon

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Tue Dec 25, 2001 11:55 am

Originally posted by craig:
Demogorgon

Oops! I forgot to mention my other fight with the demo-lich.

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Tue Dec 25, 2001 12:04 pm

I'm totally surprised that most 7th/Quest level druid spells ignore magic resistance: Firestorm, Earthquake, Implosion, Globe of Blades (and also Chan's Whirlwind).
Unfortunately the Demogorgon is immune to most of them including the push back effect and hold monster effect.

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Tue Dec 25, 2001 12:30 pm

Originally posted by Kovi:
Oops! I forgot to mention my other fight with the demo-lich.

Demi-lich, demogorgon

Blucher · Post by **Blucher** » Sun Dec 30, 2001 3:57 pm

A modest contribution to this fine thread. ;-)

Okay, everyone knows about the Rift Device right? This thing works on just about every creature in the game. I've tested it on Kangaxx, Melissan, and more.

But how do you get it out without killing your PC? Can't give it to an NPC because they return quest items to the PC when they leave the group; but you can have a familar (ferret is best) pick-pocket the item from your PC. Once out of the sewers you can have the familar give you the rift device. Just make sure you never return to the sewers with the item in the PC's inventory.

You can even use the rift device over and over again by equipping it, casting simulacrum, and dropping the original on the ground.

It really is a doomsday device. ;-)

GB

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Sun Dec 30, 2001 4:41 pm

Now that is cheese!!

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Sun Dec 30, 2001 4:48 pm

Should also work with drow items!!! try it and see! no where near underdark yet...

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Tue Jan 01, 2002 2:05 am

Now no one who is the sorc class will ever play anything else again, right? I have never deviated from sorc class myself, and its the funnest class to play for me. anyway, if you wanted to be sorc, the most popular class has always been fairy dragon, cause of the invisibility. now it looks like the trend will be the neutrals, like what I am playing now. Out goes invisibility, like the chaotic neutral, or the fun of torturing imps, with the evil groups.

Have char hold some drow equipment, and have familiar steal it. keep stealing, and I think the familiar can hold a lot! Take back a suit of drow elven chain, with speed to casting time....

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Tue Jan 01, 2002 5:25 am

Uhm... Didn't the Baldurdash FixPack correct these Drow item oversights? I vaguely remember the checks having moved to the general background script for the whole game, which means it'd be pretty much inescapable...