Building a New Party...

[myrophine]

Hi I'm building a party (well trying...I've gone through a bunch of paper with no luck ).

I want to try out something interesting. I don't want to deal with xp penalties and I'm not concerned with THE most powerful party...just a fun one to beat the game with (again ).

So far:

Druid X (to try out the ease of use druid mod)
Monk X (to find out myself if they really suck )
Paladin 8 ---> Paladin 8 sorceror 22
Bard 8 Fighter X (eventually more bard levels but at leat 10 fighter)

I don't know what (if any mix-ins)
I don't know races or stats

Problem spots:

Rogue skills - I'm tired of the rogue/mage and am scared to try a pure rogue.

Diplomat - I don't want to gimp the Bard/fighters stats (I'll hose intelligence a bit). But I'm not sure if I want to do the sorceror again as I've already done that before...well maybe I could pick different spells/stats/race...

myro

[Ravager]

Monks aren't too bad. Just make sure they are well supported with at LEAST one other melee character. High DEX and WIS are essential for reasonable AC - then STR and CON.
Fighters are worth going for due to the immense no. of feats.
Druids are good but have less access to healing (need higher levels I think).

Mult-class rogue is probably better than single-class. Go for whatever your party seems weak at.

Go for a generalist Mage so your party isn't limited in spell schools.

Aasimar make good paladins and clerics.

[myrophine]

Ok heres the party so far...

I decided to model it after my 2nd edition party:

blade
sorceror
ranger/cleric
archer
f/m/t
kensai/druid

ok so each member...

blade:

Must - dual wield, sing, pick pockets, identify items, and rapid access to spells.


Impossible to translate exactly as bard has more limited spells in IWD2 than 2nd edition rules.

BardX

sorceror:

translates well. Sorceror X

ranger/cleric:

translates very poorly. Druid is totally different... More of an avenger kit. cleric is kind of a built in fighter/cleric of 2nd edition..

so I will make it a Ranger1 silverstar X

Kensai/Druid :

translates horribly. What I had was a figher who couldn't be hit (ironskins). Sounds like mirror imaged fighter to me...with summoning and healing too...a druid is a built in warrior/summoner healer.

Illusionist5 Druid X (will also let me try out the weidu wild shapes )

Start as Druid level to druid 7 Next level you would get ironskins so level as Illusionist5. Then Druid 21. To finish off you get to decide between illusionist 9, Barb4, figher4 etc...

Archer:

I don't know why people say a straight fighter is the best archer? Yes you need a warrior class. Bard loses out on BAB...

But why not take 10 fighter levels for feats and WS... You WILL get your archery feats and have plenty left over. Now take Ranger 20 for level 4 spells and 5 favored enemies (choose casters or other annoying beasts) + heretics bane. You will take precise shot so you don't need strength and can afford the 14 wisdom to actually cast the albeit less than desirable spells.

F/M/T:

hard to multi-class without penalties AND high level mage stuff

Rogue has the nice AB progression. Why not scrap the fighter part? But I'm bored of the rogue10/mage20...

I'll try demarch of mask/thief since mask has the illusion school mage spells which were so essential to the thief

You need to pick locks and disarm traps and have concentration so a human with 14 intelligence or drow female with 16 can do it 5 skill points...
Note: (search can be handled by the ranger archer)

Rogue1Monk1DemarchX (Lawful Evil)

myrophine

[Ravager]

No kits in IWDII, myro. You'll have to use a general bard (instead of a blade) and pump CHA to get good spell access (like Sorcerers).

Fighters are able to put more points into Weapon Proficiencies so should get best weapon THAC0 and damage.

[myrophine]

Yeah I changed my mind on the party...

I still haven't figured out the endless riddle of an uberpowerful warrior who can dual class to caster without min-maxing...

I did decide that I needed some more frontline power though...

still thinking...

myrophine

[myrophine]

Mult-class rogue is probably better than single-class. Go for whatever your party seems weak at.

what rogues do you think are good?

I want locks, disarm, and search. Don't care about the rest... And I may have 2 or 3 characters do the 3 functions so I don't have to boost intelligence (I'm totally bored of the rogue X/mageling Y character) Also since I'm building warriors too...I notice ranger gets search ability. I could put Ranger 1 (to remove the cross class limit and get dual wield plus martial weapons)...then dual to something else that can benefit from dual wielding.

myrophine

[myrophine]

well I'm still pretty stuck on building the party...

I've made 1 character so far. I noticed that my main killer was a fighter4 barbarianX with str16 con18 dex16 dumb and ugly. The problem was charms, only achieved 1 damage resistance, and hardly used rage (bulls or champions strength). I think the power of the barb kicks up in HOF but by that time you need WoB not a barb whacking a 200 hp goblin...

so why not pal2/monk3/fighterX str18con20dex14int3wis3ch18

great swords (cera sumat mods), slings, hammer

working on...

archer
rogue
singer of tymoras melody

myrophine

[Aerich]

Paladin/Monk

I've never played one, but I've always thought this would be neat. I'd put the main levels into monk, or perhaps go with a paladin[10]/monk[20].

The key to a monkish character is Wis and Dex. Str probably no more than 14-16 at most even if min/maxing - put the rest into Con. I did go with an 18 Str monk (Aasimar) once, but a deep gnome is better. You need an aasimar or a human/half-elf to avoid the XP penalty even for the pal/monk combo.

I don't like the low Wis on your proposed pal/monk/fighter[x] - even with the Cha saves bonuses it's still too vulnerable to hold/charm. The last thing you want is your top fighter taken out of your control in a tough battle.

A single-class deep gnome monk is darn good; if you pump its AC with spells it's 95% unhittable. If you want to multi at level 20, you can go to cleric for decent spells.

[myrophine]

I don't like the low Wis on your proposed pal/monk/fighter[x] - even with the Cha saves bonuses it's still too vulnerable to hold/charm. The last thing you want is your top fighter taken out of your control in a tough battle.

I'm building this character on the basis that by barbXfighter4 got the most kills and seriously rocked. BUT -

* He NEVER Raged once he got bulls/champion strength on...
* He got charmed...

Your Pal/Monk would have less of a problem with charms especially if the main class is monk with paladin as a mix-in. You would lose some BAB but gain the monk unarmed #attack progression.

Heres why my Pal2Monk3FighterX has Less of a problem with will saves than a barbarian (but not as good as a pure monk of course).

* 18 charisma means a +4 to will save. I believe you get another 2 charisma for cera sumat quest so a +5. So now your 3 in wisdom is more like a 10 (12 after cera sumat). Thats exactly what my barbs wisdom was (10)...

Ok so far its a wash...this character is EQUALLY susceptible to charm as my human barbarianx/fighter4

* the first level of monk adds +2 will saves whereas figher or barb level ups take 3 level ups to get just +1. The second level of monk gives another +1 to will saves. The third doesn't give any will save but does give still mind.

* I can be a dwarf. with a monkXpal2 I couldn't be...So +2 for saves vs magic and I have a 20 con.

* with all my feats (fighter x) I can afford iron will AND bull headed for +3 to will saves

* Pal 2 gives immunity to fear!! Charm wasn't the only problem. This guy ate up fear scrolls/spells like a champ against the yuan-ti

So what does the human barb have going for it?

*highest BAB since all warrior levels....OK so I lose a BAB at monk 1
*3 feats from fighter levels.... BUT a mixin5fighterX gives even more feats
*rage BUT I didn't use that
*HP but I'm a dwarf with 20 con so I get almost as many hp (I'm comparing to my previous character not to a dwarven barb)
*speed but monk is fast too.

But why min/max my wisdom? This is a part monk.
* if I hose charisma I lose will and reflex (evasion) also fortitude but with all the fighter levels thats high enough already...
* if I hose strength my kills will drop
* high hp are essential to my concept of the char. I want 20 con no less.
* dexterity also provides ac. I don't plan on using stunning fist. I DO plan on wearing armor (Interloper at first?). Admittedly I could wear no armor and cast armor on the character. But since I don't want to change str, con, or charisma I have little wiggle room. I could have 3 dex and 14 wisdom but that would be worse for ac since 3 dex is a PENALTY whereas 3 wis isn't a penalty (just no bonus).

myrophine

[myrophine]

I would like to try your monk idea but I don't know what to do with the stats of a monk...

I would go Pal1MonkX or Pal2MonkX (don't know how much fear is a factor with the high end will save...)

Aasimar seems best unless you want more mixins (but I wouldn't dilute the monk any more than it already is). I'd definately hose intelligence.

The problem is that I'd want str, dex, con, wis, and charisma but I can't do all that

I could have str14dex14con14int4wis20char14(later16) and pump wisdom?

myrophine

[myrophine]

Do I lose monk3 speed if I am in armor?

myro

[myrophine]

Ok I've added two more characters bringing us to:

#1
Dzahn Strohmguld a Pal2Monk1FighterX (Gold Dwarf)
Two Handed Sword and Light Armor (evasion)
Str 18 Dex 14 Con 20 Int3 Wis3 Ch 18

#2
Gwuenocloc a MonkX (Half-Orc) Wanted to try a monk...
Axe and no armor
Str 20 Dex 18 Con 16 Int1 Wis18 Ch1 so i'm min/maxing now...my how my attitude has changed

Note: I envision this character as a decent archer too using the returning axe of shocking +4 (on iron golems for example). Plus it takes awhile for the fists to be useful.

Question: what stat should I pump? ie advantages and disadvantages please

str - inflict damgage and hit more often
dex - ac and evasion
wis - ac and stun (will save too)
con - hp

My feeling is that AC and hp is good but they can't hit YOU when they're dead right? Of course they can't hit when stunned either...(but I DO have 18 wisdom here + pure monk if that affects the DC)

anything I'm not thinking about? What are the relative importance of these?
BTW i chose half - orc because you can hose int and ch (useless) to 1 each.

#3 Teira Halsen Ranger1Monk1(when I get "every god" ring) Demarch of Mask

Dual Wields a Bastard sword (weidu modded) and the short sword of brilliance in the off-hand...

I know what #4 and #5 will be...

#4 sorceror and talker
#5 Mage and lore, arcane, etc..

So for #6 I want some kind of rogue. I worry about will saves. AND I want to use the Halberds (icelance, massive halberd of hate)

I think Bard 5 Rogue X would be just fine...If I took 4 fighter levels I get free access to halberds plus 3 feats higher BAB but I lose sneak attack, skills, and access to slippery mind earlier...

myro

[silverdragon72]

.

concerning your pal/monk/fighter:


why not a pal 3 - monk 3 - fighter 4 - cleric 20

...drow female...

...with STR 10 - DEX 20 - CON 14 - INT 13 - WIS 18 - CHA 5 ?


btw. if you use the weimer mod for your druid in normal - the shapeshifts are that powerfull that you don't need to care that much about the rest of your party...


.

[Ravager]

Just trying to do catch-up on this new party thing.

Your party looks good to me so far,myro.

I'm not sure if INT affects any saves. I don't think it does, so min. INT shouldn't be a problem.

I would probably go for more fighter than paldin with the monk classes -> greater feat access + maybe more HP.

How much fighting do you want your rogue to do?
Rogue/bard is going to be pretty weak. Rogue/Mage will have better spell access.

Here's a thought- What do people think about a Barbarian/Monk- HP bonuses greatly benefit a monk that needs extra HP (especially early on). Restriction to light armour is no trouble and raging ability will increase immunities and damage-dealing potential.

Good luck with this new party, myro.

[Aerich]

Can't do a Barb/Monk without the alignment mod. Monk can only be lawful, Barbarian can't be lawful. Int does not affect saves, only skill points.

[Ravager]

Ah, yes, of course. That's a shame.

I think it's just DEX, CON and WIS that affects the saves.

With only 1 INT, the game should be taking skill points away rather than giving them to you.

More tips- I think STR also affects your melee skill and DEX ranged weapon ability - THAC0 and maybe damage.

[myrophine]

@ silverdragon

I like your idea on the drow female character with three problems (at least for me and my own sensibilities):

* I'm not sure whether I'll play into HOF...

* well I had this whole writeup of how I do a level squatting table to maximize my party xp but the stupid computer decided to erase the text!!!

* it totally changes the character from a brutal warrior killer into a cleric with super saves

Anyhow its hard to draw a table with ecl races though I'm sure you can still squat.

btw. if you use the weimer mod for your druid in normal - the shapeshifts are that powerfull that you don't need to care that much about the rest of your party...

Yeah, I'll either not bring druid or turn the mod off again for normal. I'm leaning towards a roguish char with halberds in that slot anyway (i know druid gets halberds too but I'd probaby always be transformed).

What about (for the fighter/monk/pally)... a wild elf!?

build a fighter4/monk3/pally3 then mixin 5 levels sorceror for normal. Thats still very combat useful. You have no ECL penalty and still get SR (cera cumat).

wild elf str 18 dex 20 con 18 int 1 wis 3 char 16

This way you can hose wisdom and its not your casting stat!

myro

[Ravager]

I think a monk loses all special abilities when wearing armour and will have a terrible AC without thanks to 3 WIS.

[myrophine]

Hmm..Maybe I'll only take monk1 for evasion (I've used that in light armor with thieves before) and their basic saving throw progression...

Monk speed would be nice though...

myrophine

[Raven_Song]

Ravager is right, your monk will lose all its monk benefits in armour and having such an incredibly poor WIS your unarmored class will be terrible.
The idea of a monk-mix in is to negate the need for armour. Also even with the paladin saves your will saving throw will be extremely dicey. Some of the guides I've read don't recommend reducing wisdom below 8 and that's for drow with magic resistance and the other bonuses.

Not sure if the Lawful Good alignment would cause a problem (assuming your not running no alignment restriction mod) but you could switch Monk for Rogue. With high dex you could make the most out of the seemingly vast array of light armour in the game and augment it with spells. You'd also retain the evasion and have some back-stabbing ability.