When to dual class my cleric?

[liorde]

Hello all,
I have a Cleric in my party which I specifically created from the beginning of the game to be a fighter later on. Although she is not dual-classed yet, she still acts as a good fighter.. but not for long. Enemies are becoming more 7 more strong & tough to kill. I wish to dual class her to fighter. Please tell me what is the meaning of this. She is now level 9 Cleric. What will happen if I dual class her now? How will her advancement be now? Only in the fighter class or in the Cleric as well?

Please advise.

Thank-you.

[Raven_Song]

Hi.

The dual-class isn't implemented in IWD2 instead you will have a multiclass cleric (X) fighter (Y), whereby you can add levels to either class as you level up.

Do you have any more precise information about your cleric (race, cleric domain, ability scores) as it will help in offering you better advice, as your clerics race may influence their multiclassing options.

[Aerich]

Dual classing in IWD2 is much, much easier than in IWD1. You can still use all the skills of your cleric without restriction, including spells. *Edit* I suppose this is actually multiclassing.

You will have a cleric[9]/fighter[1]. You will gain the feat(s) and weapon abilities of a starting fighter, and the Base Attack Bonus of the fighter (+1/fighter level) stacks with the BAB you earned previously as a cleric. You can pick whatever class you'd like to level up in every time you level.

I've got a couple of games going right now, one with a dg monk as the main tank and a fighter[1]/Stormlord of Talos[13] as the secondary tank - it's working quite well. The other game has a fighter[1]/Dreadmaster[x] using Nine Paces as the third melee option - this is also a nice combo. Neither of them is going to advance any further in the fighter class until maybe after attaining lvl 20 cleric if I take them into HoF. The BAB of a cleric is fine, really, especially because your cleric spells can give it a bit of help.

[liorde]

Thank-you for the prompt replies

This is valuable information for me.
I will have to look at the Cleric's attributes and I will then post them here.
I do not understand fully what are the domain spells? What does that mean, "Domain" for a Cleric? Is it only for a Cleric?
I am currently located in the game at the River-Caves. Many "Hook-Horrors" there and I am having a very hard time. I do not have enough
spells to go around and my party is not that strong, even though I hold a 6 man party. This is my first run thru the game.

If possible I would like to ask about my Rogue character. She is now at lvl 10 if I am not mistaken.
Is there anything I can do with ther to make her more versatile? Once again, here I allocated her attributes towards
being a Rogue/Fighter.

Oh, another thing please, what is BAB?
Thank-you!

[Ravager]

I do not understand fully what are the domain spells? What does that mean, "Domain" for a Cleric? Is it only for a Cleric?

When you create a cleric, you choose their god too. Each of these gods grant you access to 'domain' spells similar to their vies. For example choosing Talos, god of destruction grants you access to the Lightning Bolt spell. There are 2 domain spells to choose from at each clerical spell level.

I do not have enough spells to go around and my party is not that strong, even though I hold a 6 man party. This is my first run thru the game.

Try using more Summon Monster spells if you have them.

A Rogue/Fighter should be more versatile- better attack and more HP. Just make sure you still go for at least the occasional Rogue level so rogue tasks can still be effective.

BAB- stands for Base Attack Bonus, I believe. This is better for a fighter than a mage. Bonuses from weapons (e.g +1 weapons add +1) stack with this.

[silverdragon72]

.


have a look at the sticky powergaming guide - read this and also have a look at the UPP and JUPP guides (you will find the links there)...

...you will certainly find much more and deeper information then you have asked for - but you will also find good information about the basic game concepts and much about powerfull multi-class builds...


...if you have further questions then - don't hesitate to ask

.

[Aerich]

To expand on Ravager's points,

Domain spells are additional powers granted by deities that reflect their powers and traits in some way - for example, priests of Helm, god of guardians, are granted domain access to numerous protective spells. You can memorize domain spells in the spellbook screen by clicking on the "domain" tab next to the "cleric" tab at the top.

The hook horror area is tough on the first time through because many HHs appear from nowhere, often in the middle of your party. One of the things you will learn in this game, if you haven't already, is that positional tactics makes or breaks a fight. For the Hook Horror fights, after the fights at the entrance you can clear one of the little rooms and put the majority of your party in there while a fast party member triggers the appearance of the HHs. Run the fast character back inside the room, summon monsters at the door, cast a Web, Slow, Chaos, Confusion, Stinking Cloud, or whatever on the corridor outside, and go to town with missile weapons. Summon more creatures as necessary. Earth elementals are amazing here, just make sure you have Protection from Evil cast on all your party members, and don't hit them with an area effect spell.

Go ahead and multi-class your Rogue to Fighter. Fighter levels will give you better HP, better chance to hit (a better Base Attack Bonus, or BAB, which goes up every level for fighters and only 3 for every 4 rogue levels), and more feats which you can use on weapon specialization or all those neat rogue feats. Make sure you also take Improved Critical and Dirty Fighting.

[liorde]

Another thing...

Ok,
Knowing this I wish to ask something else.
What is the max level you can reach in the game?
When I mutilclass the Rogue to whatever other class he still advances in both classes right? Levels I mean. So is it possible to be maximum level, eventually, in both classes?
WHat is the differnce between "Uncanny-dodge" and "Evade"... ?

Thanks!

[Aerich]

What is the max level you can reach in the game?

30 levels, combined. You won't reach the cap in one trip through the game. Typically, a 6 character party will reach about lvl 16.

When I multiclass the Rogue to whatever other class he still advances in both classes right? Levels I mean. So is it possible to be maximum level, eventually, in both classes?

Not sure what exactly you mean here. If a rogue[10] takes 3 levels of fighter, you end up with a rogue[10]/fighter[3] - 13 levels combined, that all count toward the cap. You could have a rogue[27]/fighter[3] or rogue[10]/fighter[20], but there is a hard cap of 30 combined levels. You cannot have a rogue[30]/fighter[30] as in IWD1.

You can switch back and forth between levels of any class, generally with no restrictions. The exceptions are monks and paladins; monks and paladins can dual class to anything that doesn't contravene the alignment restrictions, but can only dual back to monk or paladin if they dualed to one of the favoured classes of monks or paladins respectively. Monks' favoured classes are sorceror, rogue, and Painbearer of Ilmater. Paladins' favoured classes are fighter, wizard, and Painbearer. Note that the favoured class (only one per paladin or monk) is determined by which order of monk or paladin you choose.

What is the differnce between "Uncanny-dodge" and "Evade"... ?

They are similar in that they are both unconscious skills (e.g. you the player do not have to activate them - they are always active). Evasion is a more useful skill. When a rogue is hit by an area-effect spell necessitating a reflex save (e.g. Fireball), the rogue can Evade the effect entirely if it makes a reflex check - if it fails to evade, it can still roll a normal saving throw for half damage. I'm not sure of the exact modifiers to the evasion check, but I think it is a reflex saving throw against the difficulty class (level of spell + level and statistical modifiers of the caster?) of the spell.

Uncanny dodge is a class skill of rogues that protects against backstab - there aren't that many thieves and assassins in the game, but it is occasionally handy. Invisible rogues have a better chance to hit due to their invisibility - uncanny dodge essentially removes that attack roll modifier when the rogue is attacking another rogue.

[liorde]

Thank-you for the reply.

What I meant in my question regarding the levels of the character was that if I now choose to dual class from Rogue to Wizard for example, will I still advance my levels as a Rogue or will the character stop advancing in Rogue class and will now only advance in Wizard?

When a character reaches level 30, which I understand is the max level, does he still gain XP points from the game? Even though he cannot advance levels? Does the fact that he cannot advance in *levels* alone, prevent him from receiving skill points / new feats?

Thank-you.

[Faust]

[QUOTE=liorde]What I meant in my question regarding the levels of the character was that if I now choose to dual class from Rogue to Wizard for example, will I still advance my levels as a Rogue or will the character stop advancing in Rogue class and will now only advance in Wizard?

When a character reaches level 30, which I understand is the max level, does he still gain XP points from the game? Even though he cannot advance levels? Does the fact that he cannot advance in *levels* alone, prevent him from receiving skill points / new feats?

Thank-you.[/QUOTE]

You're still thinking in AD&D terms. In 3E things change dramatically. You, effectively, chose which class to advance in each time you gain a level. So, you only cease advancing in a class, when you chose to not devote any more levels to it. Let me try to explain.

Your character starts out as a fighter. You gain enough experience to advance to level 2. You decide to advance in the cleric class that level. You then gain enough experience to advance to level 3. You chose to advance in fighter that level. At this point, you're effectively a level 3 character, and you've gained as much as experience as a single class levle 3 character - but you're level 2 fighter/level 1 cleric. When you gain enough experience to advance to level 4, you can advance in any class you like. So, you can chose to keep working on your cleric level, your fighter levels, or you can try something else entirely. Does that make sense? The point being that you chose which class to advance in each level. So you're in control of which classes are still being developed and which are not.

But, ultimately, in IWD you can only gain 30 levels total. So your cumulative level total will never be above 30. Meaning, you might be a level 15 cleric/15 theif or, alternatively, a level 30 cleric, but it won't be an odd experience based combination as if you were playing under the AD&D rules.

And, yes, skill points and feats are dependent on your level. So once you max your levels, you will no longer receive those.

[liorde]

Thank-you. Much clearer now!

Is there a point in reaching to level 30 in one Class? Is it effective to do so?
My idea is to enjoy the game in the maximum so I wish to experiment this feature. However I do not wish to miss out the features that may become available in very high character levels.

Please advise.

[Darkwind]

Generally 30lvls in one class is not recommended. for many classes more than 20lvls is a waste.... Monk, Sorcerer, Barbarian are maybe the only classes ever to be advanced at so high levels.(Druid also if you have Weidu mod, since 21 levels of Druid offers great shapeshifting abilities, in unmodded game Druid is a weakling...) Monks get some neat abilities up to 20th level, For Sorc it´s Spell DC and for Barb it´s damage resistance(If you ever need one.)

11 levels is enough for Bard if you don´t care about the higher level spells(Which IMHO, can be left to other spellcasters), since they get their last and best song at 11th lvl

For Wiz or Cleric anything from 15 to 18 lvls is enough as Clerics 9th lvl spells are useless. Domain spells may be somewhat good at 9th, but it´s up to you to decide the need of those spells. If Wizard is your only pure spell caster(no Sorcerer) then higher than 18 lvls may be in order.

SilverDragon said that you should read those power-gaming guides and I agree... Multiclassing is a key to success in IWD2 IMO. So combining many different classes and knowing their useful abilities and level to obtain them is important. And remember that only few levels of any class offers their most useful skills. For spellcasters it is the spells that count so choose your levels by that in mind.... 5 lvls of Wiz, Sorc and Bard offer some of the best defensive spells(MMI, MI, Blur etc.)

Good Luck and Happy Hunting

[liorde]

Thank-you.

I think I am getting the picture clearer now. Slowly but surely
One thing that may prove a problem is that I initially created the characters with maxed out attributes. For example, my Rogue, I made her maxed out in DEX, STR, CON and she is actually pretty "dumb" as her INT is super low, and CHA is also low so Wiz and Sorc are out of the story for this one...
Maybe to fighter will be a good choice...!??

Maybe my next run through the game I will be wiser
and create my characters "looking ahead"...


Thanks to all those who helped.

[Darkwind]

Oh...
Well, could you post info of all of your characters?
Stats etc. so we can see what can be done??