How far would you go

ch85us2001 · Post by **ch85us2001** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:44 pm

Ive been reading between a rock and a hard place by aron ralston, the guy who got trapped in a canyon so he cut his arm off.

So I wondered;

You are hiking through a desert canyon in the western USA desert. You have 1/3 of a liter water and 2 burritos (500 calories). All the sudden a rock falls and pins youre arm. You exhaust all options and are on youre last shreds of life. You know that if something major doesnt happen in hours you are dead. You have the following left

-rope
-3 carabiners
-a very blunt knife
-a climbing harness

Would you have the resolve to amputate your arm? How would you go about it?

Hill-Shatar · Post by **Hill-Shatar** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:45 pm

Carabiners?

First of all, my old CPR training courses and my anatomical studies wont really help me, since I forget all the words.

If I absolutely must, and had no choice, and had been lying there for hours un pain, then I would attampt to first sever or numb any nerves in my arm. I would then eproceed to use the knife to cut my are off, until the bleeding becomes spurting. Once that begins, you must close off the large vein located around the center, running along underneath the bicep, alo0ng with a major nerve, and pinch it closed, and also stimulate the remainng nerves enough that the body restricts the blood flow to the area.

All of this after I used to rope to cut of blood to my arm as tight as I could.

Now, after words, I would attempt to use the most sanitary cloth, or other usable material to first of all close of the arm, to keep if from getting infected, and would attempt to start a fire as soon as possuible in a clearing, and get it burning high. If I could do that, I would also attempt to consume as much of the Burrito as possible, while using some of the ingredients as salf, or other things ( I believe there is something in the grease that helps bleeding, or somethng).

It is late, Ill repost in the morning, if I have the nergy to do so.

ch85us2001 · Post by **ch85us2001** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:46 pm

Climbing clips. D shaped rings with a spring loaded closing device

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:50 pm

Hmm, as amusing at it would be telling the story of being a one-armed man after stealing things from people....I'd have to say asphyxiate myself with the rope before I died. *nods*

Hill-Shatar · Post by **Hill-Shatar** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:51 pm

ch85us2001 wrote:Climbing clips. D shaped rings with a spring loaded closing device

Ah, those would be very useful, especially in bandages, and for pinching the blood flow and nerves...

I have many ideas on how to amputate...the skill is to do it as quickly as possible, so your body goes into shock.

Hmm, as amusing at it would be telling the story of being a one-armed man after stealing things from people....I'd have to say asphyxiate myself with the rope before I died. *nods*

Survival instinct of those who follow the six commandments?

'

I have yet to make sure if I would drink the water, or use it to sterilize and wash away bloodto make it more visible...if I had a ppot, any water would do, if I got a fire started...assuming many things dont happen because I onlt have one arm.

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:53 pm

Survival instinct of those who follow the six commandments?

Nah, it's no fun being stuck disabled. Much better to go out all sorts of messed up I think.

ch85us2001 · Post by **ch85us2001** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:56 pm

My idea: (and a very well thought out one)

Twist rope with carabiners to cut bloodflow and kill arm. then go through elbow joint to avoid prolonged sawing of bones. Wrap stump in harness to keep wound clean

Hill-Shatar · Post by **Hill-Shatar** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:57 pm

Youd cut your ligaments and tendons with a blunt knife...Im impressed, however considering that the elbow is partially designed to stop those sort of things from getting into the elbow...itd be interesting to watch. Especially since you left a nerve open. youd be screaming in pain the second you started cutting.

But youve got a good idea...cut it as quick as possible so that the body goes into shock...

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:58 pm

Morbid.

I think you'd be best off using the rope and harness to cinch off your arm, and cut the bloodflow. Wait til your arm goes white and you can't feel it anymore.

As for amputation, a pocket knife will get through flesh given sufficient motivation, but you'd have to break your bones with something before you could cut through the marrow.

In the above situation, I seem to recall he broke his arm with a rock, or it was already broken.

ch85us2001 · Post by **ch85us2001** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:59 pm

Makes you think what its worth to survive

Hill-Shatar · Post by **Hill-Shatar** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:01 pm

@ Obsidian..or it is possible that it was crushed... the entire arm, past the elbow, and he couldnt move and was in extreme pain.

How would you slow the blood flow...? I know how I would, after the cut, of course, but do you have a better way? Cause all I can think off is making sure that the major one is closed.

I shouldnt be thinking about this so late at night.

As for amputation, a pocket knife will get through flesh given sufficient motivation, but you'd have to break your bones with something before you could cut through the marrow.

Point. If the bone was...er...smushed, or it transmitted the force correctly, it would survive the hit. But knowing bones, I think it would shatter on impact. he may have cut through where the bone was already broken.

ch85us2001 · Post by **ch85us2001** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:03 pm

Give you night mares hilly? Twist the rope really tight around the arm above the cut so it pinches veins and arteies kills the arm and stops bvloodflow

Hill-Shatar · Post by **Hill-Shatar** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:06 pm

[QUOTE=ch85us2001]Give you night mares hilly? Twist the rope really tight around the arm above the cut so it pinches veins and arteies kills the arm and stops bvloodflow[/QUOTE]

A nylon rope may not be good enough to cut all the nerves...remember, some are evn inside the bone... but I have used climbing rope before...although, that was wall climbing and we used belayers.... I think its too thick, even if you tied it as tight as you can with your strength..Remember how much weight it can hold up.

ch85us2001 · Post by **ch85us2001** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:09 pm

You dont have to pinch nerves, just blood tubes

Hill-Shatar · Post by **Hill-Shatar** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:10 pm

[QUOTE=ch85us2001]You dont have to pinch nerves, just blood tubes[/QUOTE]

Reflex. Can you cut your arm enough before you scream in pain constantly with a bleeding arm? I wouldnt vut through the larger bones...the smaller one at the top of the arm would be my target. Probably less nerves there.

ch85us2001 · Post by **ch85us2001** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:14 pm

Thats why you cut blood supply and kill the arm irst. The nerves would be dead and you wouldnt feel it

Chimaera182 · Post by **Chimaera182** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:31 am

I think I agree more with Magrus on the issue of suicide vs. amputation. Especially if it's my right arm; I mean, what will I do with all my porn then?

Kidding. It's not like it's a sense of completeness that you lose when you cut it off or feeling useless, or being "handicapped," but sometimes it's just better to accept death. Besides, was there any alcohol or disinfectant in the supplies available? You'd cut your arm off, and by the time you found help you'd probably be gangreous (sp?), or at the very least you'd be badly infected with something. You'd probably die anyway, but you just prolonged the suffering.

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:34 am

You can make a functional tourniquet out of rope and a stick. I imagine he had something he could use to twist around the stick to make it really tight.

Too my recollection, no nerves actually travel INSIDE the bone. Surrounding it, and directly above yes, but not within. It wouldn't serve any purpose.

As for which bone to cut, your options are the humerus, the radius and the ulna, (you'd have to cut both the radius and the Ulna to free your lower arm.

ch85us2001 · Post by **ch85us2001** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:43 am

You had more than 2 carabiners so you could make a tourniquet

Yeltsu · Post by **Yeltsu** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:35 am

I'd call MacGyver