The question is: what's left and what's right in politics?
It seems some countries have different definitions on those terms than others. I'm wondering: what are those differences, or are we just presuming there are differences, while there are actually almost none?
Please, post your definitions and comment on others. Time to put the spotlight on this dark corner of international confusion.
(Example: Your political compass)
Left and right, internationally different? (Spamfree Zone)
Left and right, internationally different? (Spamfree Zone)
[size=-1]An optimist is a badly informed pessimist.[/size]
-
dragon wench
- Posts: 19609
- Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2001 10:00 pm
- Location: The maelstrom where chaos merges with lucidity
- Contact:
In general, the political "centre" is further left in most European countries than it is in the US (and Canada... though Canada's centre is closer to the left than in the States).
Therefore, what is considered Left, or possibly even "radical," on this side of the pond is more likely to be perceived as "Centrist," in Europe.
Therefore, what is considered Left, or possibly even "radical," on this side of the pond is more likely to be perceived as "Centrist," in Europe.
Spoiler
testingtest12
Spoiler
testingtest12
[QUOTE=dragon wench]In general, the political "centre" is further left in most European countries than it is in the US (and Canada... though Canada's centre is closer to the left than in the States).[/QUOTE]
It's much more complicated, since Europes right-left political continuum is not the same as the US right-left. It's not a simple question of different place on the same scale, they are not in the same vector. My political stance would be impossible to put on a US scale, although it's quite easy to nail it as European centre politics. Just to take an example: the type of protectionism in trade and tariffs that can be seen in the US, belongs to the extreme left in northern Europe. Religious issues like abortion, teaching religion in school, protecting religious values etc are represented by separate parties, in Scandinavia for instance, all parties expect for the small Christian Democrats Party do not deal with religion at all since it is not part of politics.
See this old thread:
http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/showt ... t+politics
It's much more complicated, since Europes right-left political continuum is not the same as the US right-left. It's not a simple question of different place on the same scale, they are not in the same vector. My political stance would be impossible to put on a US scale, although it's quite easy to nail it as European centre politics. Just to take an example: the type of protectionism in trade and tariffs that can be seen in the US, belongs to the extreme left in northern Europe. Religious issues like abortion, teaching religion in school, protecting religious values etc are represented by separate parties, in Scandinavia for instance, all parties expect for the small Christian Democrats Party do not deal with religion at all since it is not part of politics.
See this old thread:
http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/showt ... t+politics
"There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance." - Hippocrates
Moderator of Planescape: Torment, Diablo I & II and Dungeon Siege forums
[QUOTE=C Elegans]<snip>
See this old thread:
http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/showt ... t+politics[/QUOTE]
Funny - I was actually reading up on that thread myself and thinking of linking it in here
But yeah - that thread explains at least some of the differneces, and is worth a read imo.
See this old thread:
http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/showt ... t+politics[/QUOTE]
Funny - I was actually reading up on that thread myself and thinking of linking it in here
But yeah - that thread explains at least some of the differneces, and is worth a read imo.Insert signature here.
-
dragon wench
- Posts: 19609
- Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2001 10:00 pm
- Location: The maelstrom where chaos merges with lucidity
- Contact:
@ CE,
I *did* say "in general." I am quite aware that there are differences within Europe itself, I have travelled extensively throughout the continent, I have strong family ties there, and I do not perceive it as a homogenous bloc.
Just to clarify
Moreover, given my knowledge of both "Europe," and North America, I consider that I am quite well positioned to make such a statement.
I was, however, saying that for the most part, the political centre in the US is considerably to the right of most European nations.
I *did* say "in general." I am quite aware that there are differences within Europe itself, I have travelled extensively throughout the continent, I have strong family ties there, and I do not perceive it as a homogenous bloc.
Just to clarify
Moreover, given my knowledge of both "Europe," and North America, I consider that I am quite well positioned to make such a statement.
I was, however, saying that for the most part, the political centre in the US is considerably to the right of most European nations.
Spoiler
testingtest12
Spoiler
testingtest12
I think that worldwide, there are similarities between the political leftists and rightists.
In general, left = more government responsibility for the people (welfare, healthcare, wage regulation)
while right = smaller government, and they view government as something created to preserve the natural order of things; sort of a darwinistic take on things (less taxes, small government, etc.)
Oftentimes, the political-right gets intermingled with religion, a phenomenon which is quite intriguing; you would expect religious people to want government to help people, right? For example: In India, the politically right party, BJP, is often associated with the majority religion, Hinduism.
I would consider myself to be a fiscal conservative; I believe in the economic policies of the right (we should not punish rich people for being successful), personal responsibility, and small government...plus I'm anti-abortion, but that's a different issue altogether. However, I am fairly socially liberal: gay marriage should be allowed, college grants and scholarships should be awarded so that anyone can afford schooling, separation of religion and state, and I'm anti-war.
In general, left = more government responsibility for the people (welfare, healthcare, wage regulation)
while right = smaller government, and they view government as something created to preserve the natural order of things; sort of a darwinistic take on things (less taxes, small government, etc.)
Oftentimes, the political-right gets intermingled with religion, a phenomenon which is quite intriguing; you would expect religious people to want government to help people, right? For example: In India, the politically right party, BJP, is often associated with the majority religion, Hinduism.
I would consider myself to be a fiscal conservative; I believe in the economic policies of the right (we should not punish rich people for being successful), personal responsibility, and small government...plus I'm anti-abortion, but that's a different issue altogether. However, I am fairly socially liberal: gay marriage should be allowed, college grants and scholarships should be awarded so that anyone can afford schooling, separation of religion and state, and I'm anti-war.
@Xandax: you must be my evil twin
[QUOTE=dragon wench]I *did* say "in general." I am quite aware that there are differences within Europe itself, I have travelled extensively throughout the continent, I have strong family ties there, and I do not perceive it as a homogenous bloc.
[/QUOTE]
Heh, I was not questioning your personal experiences in the field. My comment was aimed to clarify some important details that differ in the US versus the European left-right vectors. (I am sure Asia and Africa differ too, but I am don't have enough knowledge about these continents.)
The reason why it is important to clarify these differences, is because from what I and other European have noticed when discussing with Americans on internet forums, is that we tend to be stereotyped as "communists" or "Left pinko Eurotrash" whatever our opinions is. Europe can be viewed as to the left of the US in many issues, but in order to avoid stereotyping and triggering the communist fears (which has happened several times on this very board) it is necessary to note that "left" in social issues is not equal to "left" in for instance economical issues.
One clear example is the ultralibertarianists in the US. In Sweden, (luckily Lazarus and Scade don't know this ) would be classified as extreme left, together with anarchists, anarchosyndicalists and socialist libertarians (yes your heard me!). They are left of communism and socialism.
As I posted in the old thread I liked to, religion is not by far as important in European politics as in the US, the Middle East or India. Most Western European parties have small special "religious" parties but main parties don't deal with religion at all since religion has no place is politics.
[QUOTE=dragon wench]I *did* say "in general." I am quite aware that there are differences within Europe itself, I have travelled extensively throughout the continent, I have strong family ties there, and I do not perceive it as a homogenous bloc.
[/QUOTE]
Heh, I was not questioning your personal experiences in the field. My comment was aimed to clarify some important details that differ in the US versus the European left-right vectors. (I am sure Asia and Africa differ too, but I am don't have enough knowledge about these continents.)
The reason why it is important to clarify these differences, is because from what I and other European have noticed when discussing with Americans on internet forums, is that we tend to be stereotyped as "communists" or "Left pinko Eurotrash" whatever our opinions is. Europe can be viewed as to the left of the US in many issues, but in order to avoid stereotyping and triggering the communist fears (which has happened several times on this very board) it is necessary to note that "left" in social issues is not equal to "left" in for instance economical issues.
One clear example is the ultralibertarianists in the US. In Sweden, (luckily Lazarus and Scade don't know this
) would be classified as extreme left, together with anarchists, anarchosyndicalists and socialist libertarians (yes your heard me!). They are left of communism and socialism. As I posted in the old thread I liked to, religion is not by far as important in European politics as in the US, the Middle East or India. Most Western European parties have small special "religious" parties but main parties don't deal with religion at all since religion has no place is politics.
"There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance." - Hippocrates
Moderator of Planescape: Torment, Diablo I & II and Dungeon Siege forums
-
dragon wench
- Posts: 19609
- Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2001 10:00 pm
- Location: The maelstrom where chaos merges with lucidity
- Contact:
Usually:
Left: economically collectivist & controlling/ethically individualist & permissive, progressive, internationalist, lower class & antiglobalist.
Right: economically individualist & permissive/ethically collectivist & controlling, conservative, nationalist, upper class & globalist.
Me: economically individualist & permissive/ethically individualist & permissive, internationlist, upper class & globalist. So I'm screwed both ways...
(warning!!!!: simplified version of reality)
EDIT: changed low brow & high brow into lower class & upper class (which is closer to what I meant to say)
Left: economically collectivist & controlling/ethically individualist & permissive, progressive, internationalist, lower class & antiglobalist.
Right: economically individualist & permissive/ethically collectivist & controlling, conservative, nationalist, upper class & globalist.
Me: economically individualist & permissive/ethically individualist & permissive, internationlist, upper class & globalist. So I'm screwed both ways...
(warning!!!!: simplified version of reality)
EDIT: changed low brow & high brow into lower class & upper class (which is closer to what I meant to say)
I think that God in creating man somewhat overestimated his ability.
- Oscar Wilde
The church is near but the road is icy; the bar is far away but I'll walk carefully.
- Russian proverb
- Oscar Wilde
The church is near but the road is icy; the bar is far away but I'll walk carefully.
- Russian proverb
An interesting note, in Canada, the Liberal party, which is considered a 'left' party, is actually more centre based, often even sitting on the fence, with the NDP being the real left.
I tend to work into the far left, so far in fact people refer to me as a Leftwing nutjob, or pinko from time to time. Inaccurate, but it's fun to play it up sometimes.
I tend to work into the far left, so far in fact people refer to me as a Leftwing nutjob, or pinko from time to time. Inaccurate, but it's fun to play it up sometimes.