Doesn't anyone play Lionheart anymore?

[Fljotsdale]

In some places, playing with only melee weapons would be... not impossible, but VERY difficult. I would make sure your character, even if primarily melee, has a reasonable Ranged skill.
I HAVE played melee, but not right to the end.

[Ravager]

I'd agree. Particularly at the end, you will face enemies on platforms that you have to go round the long way to kill. It puts you at a serious disadvantage if you become a pincushion for the archers on the way around.

I suppose using Stealth might help, but I've never really tried it out. It might be possible to Sneak in front of Archers and surprise them from behind with melee weapons and there is a potion which increases the Stealth by 70 pts IIRC.

I'm now up to the second desert area after dealing with the Scorpions, Sand Spirits (I know you can persuade them, but my diplomacy wasn't high enough and I wanted the XP anyway) and Assassins. Now I'm just fighting through similar enemies on the second desert area before going into their stronghold.

[Fljotsdale]

Actually - having given it brief consideration - if you have some decent ranged spells that would probably work as well as ranged weapons; spells like:

Celestial Smite (Divine:Smite branch)
Ice Spike or Ice Javelin (Thought)
Fire Orb or Fireball (Thought)
Lightning Bolt (Thought)

But spells are not as rapid-fire as Ranged weapons, and use up Mana very quickly - and you need that Mana for protective spells!
Also, specialising in a Thought branch is not so useful as specialising in a Divine branch - though I always feed some points into Thought:Ice to kill the Lava Trolls early in the game, but usually only as far as Ice Javelin.

Have fun, Ravager! :laugh: I loved the desert areas.

BTW, do you use Shaman's Eye at all? It's the second Nature's Fury spell (not the 4th as the Manual says), and it's great for finding out what lies ahead - and in wait for you! It was particularly useful in the deserts and in the Fortress.
I always have high Speech skill!
I'm currently trying a char as Inquisitor, since it's a class I have not used before.

[Ravager]

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]Have fun, Ravager! :laugh: I loved the desert areas. [/QUOTE]

I get a little fed up of the repetitive nature of the place and the constant retreating to avoid grabbing more than one Scorpion at a time (especially the Montrous ones). Crushing damage seems to be doing better than slashing anyway, so I'm focusing on that using Divine Might and Weaken Enemies too.

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]BTW, do you use Shaman's Eye at all? It's the second Nature's Fury spell (not the 4th as the Manual says), and it's great for finding out what lies ahead - and in wait for you! It was particularly useful in the deserts and in the Fortress. [/QUOTE]

I haven't tried it out in a very long time, so I don't remember that much about it. Doesn't it grant some benefits to Find Traps as well?

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]I always have high Speech skill! [/QUOTE]

I normally put quite a lot of points in it too, but recently I've been focusing on Two-Handed Melee (to get it up to 200 - I was considering taking the perk attached to that) and Ranged in preparation for the Assassin Archers.

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]I'm currently trying a char as Inquisitor, since it's a class I have not used before.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, it's my first time with an Inquisitor too, though it's quite good. A variation on the kind of benefits granted by the Wielders.

[Fljotsdale]

[QUOTE=Ravager] I get a little fed up of the repetitive nature of the place and the constant retreating to avoid grabbing more than one Scorpion at a time (especially the Montrous ones). Crushing damage seems to be doing better than slashing anyway, so I'm focusing on that using Divine Might and Weaken Enemies too.[/quote]

I quite like the 'lure 'em out then run and shoot' style of it.
Yeah, Weaken Enemies is good! Not used Divine Might much.

[QUOTE=Ravager]I haven't tried it out in a very long time, so I don't remember that much about it. Doesn't it grant some benefits to Find Traps as well?[/quote]

Yes, it does. Don't remember how much - probably an added 10 points.

[QUOTE=Ravager]I normally put quite a lot of points in it too, but recently I've been focusing on Two-Handed Melee (to get it up to 200 - I was considering taking the perk attached to that) and Ranged in preparation for the Assassin Archers.[/quote]

A VERY useful skill, Speech. Can save a lot of damage! :laugh:

[QUOTE=Ravager]Yeah, it's my first time with an Inquisitor too, though it's quite good. A variation on the kind of benefits granted by the Wielders.[/QUOTE]

That's good to know. I'm missing the Wielder benefits! My char is only an Acolyte at the moment. I'm doing the Beggar's quests before I do the next Inquisition task.

[Ravager]

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]I quite like the 'lure 'em out then run and shoot' style of it.
Yeah, Weaken Enemies is good! Not used Divine Might much. [/QUOTE]

Divine Might (if I've got the name right) increases the amount of damage done. I think it's by 20% for me at the moment. Combined with Weaken Enemies reducing Crushing Resistance, it's quite good.
I've done a lot of this lure tactic over RPG's, it just gets a bit dull eventually. You want to press forward, but have to keep retreating as there's a giant army to take care of single-handedly.

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]Yes, it does. Don't remember how much - probably an added 10 points.[/QUOTE]

IIRC, it's probably one of those spells that increases the skill points as you put more points in, so the bonus should get higher. That's the trend anyway.

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]A VERY useful skill, Speech. Can save a lot of damage! :laugh: [/QUOTE]

Yeah, Barter helps too. But it's still quite rare actually to need the skill other than major named enemies.

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]That's good to know. I'm missing the Wielder benefits! My char is only an Acolyte at the moment. I'm doing the Beggar's quests before I do the next Inquisition task.[/QUOTE]

Well, you get a Rod of the Inquisition that increases Perction IIRC and resistances too. I think I cleared up all possible quests before joining a faction e.g. cure Brambles. As for the Beggars, I normally go for their side, at least because the first Wererat encountered is tough. But going for the Thieves is an interesting route too and you can still kill them all and loot the place anyway. What bothers me is all the quest items like swords and pendants from each side that can't be given to anyone.
I think one of the Inquisition quests may be to destroy the Beggars.

[Fljotsdale]

[QUOTE=Ravager] Divine Might (if I've got the name right) increases the amount of damage done. I think it's by 20% for me at the moment. Combined with Weaken Enemies reducing Crushing Resistance, it's quite good.
I've done a lot of this lure tactic over RPG's, it just gets a bit dull eventually. You want to press forward, but have to keep retreating as there's a giant army to take care of single-handedly. [/quote]

Heheh! :laugh: Yeah, in most games I've ever played, it always amazes me that one little hero in poor armour, with inferior weapons and low skills, can beat the hell out of enemies that fully armed and trained soldiers/wizards can't.


[QUOTE=Ravager]Yeah, Barter helps too. But it's still quite rare actually to need the skill other than major named enemies.[/quote]

True. But when you get the opportunity to use a high Speech skill, it REALLY is worth it!

[QUOTE=Ravager]Well, you get a Rod of the Inquisition that increases Perction IIRC and resistances too. I think I cleared up all possible quests before joining a faction e.g. cure Brambles. As for the Beggars, I normally go for their side, at least because the first Wererat encountered is tough. But going for the Thieves is an interesting route too and you can still kill them all and loot the place anyway. What bothers me is all the quest items like swords and pendants from each side that can't be given to anyone.
I think one of the Inquisition quests may be to destroy the Beggars.[/QUOTE]

Ah, good. I like the sound of that.

Yes, I have an Inquisition Quest to eliminate the werewolf problem. But, in one of my past part-played games I remember getting a potion of Luck for completing the Beggars' quests - and I want it! I shall do the Inquisition task later - unless completing the last werewolf quest solves it bloodlessly. Don't tell me!

[Ravager]

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]Heheh! :laugh: Yeah, in most games I've ever played, it always amazes me that one little hero in poor armour, with inferior weapons and low skills, can beat the hell out of enemies that fully armed and trained soldiers/wizards can't. [/QUOTE]

You do get used to it after a while. The experience doesn't hurt either.

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]True. But when you get the opportunity to use a high Speech skill, it REALLY is worth it! [/QUOTE]

Yeah, it certainly has it's benefits, but I'd prefer to stick a huge number of points in a skill I use all the time rather than 5% of the game.

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]I shall do the Inquisition task later - unless completing the last werewolf quest solves it bloodlessly. Don't tell me![/QUOTE]

The wererats? Heh, I won't tell. How's it going?
As for the potion, you may be right. I forgot about it's existence. I know the River Dryad offers one though as a reward.

As for me, I killed our favourite overgrown lizard in the desert and now I've made it down two levels (with the jewelled teeth). Never fails to surprise me how quick I can level up in there.

ADDITION: I managed to get the Bow of Fiery Smite, but I think for the moment I prefer the crossbow I was using, it has an acid bonus that always does 4pts of damage and +9% accuracy I think. The bow may do more damage but not always.
And so now, I'm onto the last level before the final fight I think.

[Fljotsdale]

[QUOTE=Ravager] You do get used to it after a while. The experience doesn't hurt either. [/quote]

I been playing PC games since Daggerfall first came out (before, actually, but I don't remember 'em) and I haven't stopped smiling to myself about the incongruity of it yet.



[QUOTE=Ravager]Yeah, it certainly has it's benefits, but I'd prefer to stick a huge number of points in a skill I use all the time rather than 5% of the game. [/quote]

I can see your point! But for myself (I suppose it's because I'm an old woman, not a young man!) I prefer to hang onto my healing potions and stuff for the enemies I can't cozen into going away peacefully, LOL!


[QUOTE=Ravager]The wererats? Heh, I won't tell. How's it going?[/quote]

Meh. I didn't like that at all. How could I kill 'em off when I had done so much for them? There should have been an option to just say 'problem solved' to the Inquisitors afer I got the potion for the wererats, but there wasn't, even though it looked as though there could be that possibility in the wording of the Quest. Maybe my Speech skill just wasn't high enough at that stage. I don't know.
Anyway, at that point I gave up on that particular game. I now have a Feralkin who has become a Warden Knight (Dame, not Sir ) - and I talked my way out of getting Eduardo's sword, too, so I still could do the Wererat quests and not finish up killing them!

[QUOTE=Ravager]As for the potion, you may be right. I forgot about it's existence. I know the River Dryad offers one though as a reward.[/quote]

I am right. I've got it in two games, now. AND the Dryad potion.

[QUOTE=Ravager]As for me, I killed our favourite overgrown lizard in the desert and now I've made it down two levels (with the jewelled teeth). Never fails to surprise me how quick I can level up in there. [/quote]

I talked to him.
Yes, it amazed me how incredibly fast you level up in there!:speech:

[QUOTE=Ravager]ADDITION: I managed to get the Bow of Fiery Smite, but I think for the moment I prefer the crossbow I was using, it has an acid bonus that always does 4pts of damage and +9% accuracy I think. The bow may do more damage but not always.
And so now, I'm onto the last level before the final fight I think. [/QUOTE]

I liked the bow. But yes, I had three bows and an excellent crossbow with my char when we got to the final level. I could never decide which was best!

My Feralkin is currently about to go to Toulouse.

Actually, my last char to make it all the way to the end had high Magic skills, but my Feralkin doesn't. I didn't give her a Tag skill in magic, because Feralkins are the least magical class, having a 'naturally' low Intelligence (although I gave her 6 for the skill points and she now has 7). I Tagged Ranged, Sneak and Evasion.
Evasion is remarkably good for armour class as well as evading blows.
Sneak less valuable. I won't Tag it again.

Have fun!

[Ravager]

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]I been playing PC games since Daggerfall first came out (before, actually, but I don't remember 'em) and I haven't stopped smiling to myself about the incongruity of it yet. [/QUOTE]

Heh. I haven't been playing RPG's that long. Probably since sometime just before BGII was released.
A good example of taking on armies is probably Dungeon Siege, that's just fight your way from A to B and little else. But that is an 'Action' RPG.

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]I am right. I've got it in two games, now. AND the Dryad potion. [/QUOTE]

Well, that's good. I wasn't sure and the main reason I tried the Thieves was the variety. Normally I don't put too many points into Luck normally I leave it at 5, concentration on Strength and such. Perception seems to have lots of perks to raise it, so that can be left partly alone too.

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]Actually, my last char to make it all the way to the end had high Magic skills, but my Feralkin doesn't. I didn't give her a Tag skill in magic, because Feralkins are the least magical class, having a 'naturally' low Intelligence (although I gave her 6 for the skill points and she now has 7). I Tagged Ranged, Sneak and Evasion.
Evasion is remarkably good for armour class as well as evading blows.
Sneak less valuable. I won't Tag it again.
[/QUOTE]

Only 6/7 skill pts a level? Wow, that must make things tricky.
Evasion is useful. I think I had less than 100 points in it but that still gave a 10% chance (maybe more) of evading a blow. As for Sneak I think it allows you to gain most of the experience from an enemy within your sight and may be useful for getting past/behind archer types.

Well, I managed to complete Lionheart today.
Was easier than the last time as I managed to disarm that summoning trap and just used potionms of Extra Healing and Fire Protection. Then it was just a matter of time. I think I managed to just get up to level 48. I levelled up just after going through the portal to the last battle.
I also had just over 200 ranged and Two-Handed Melee but I only just the crossbow in that battle. Otherwise it does get very tough. I eventried the Speech option but it failed as expected.
I was wondering why there were so many guard dogs in the final areas. They seem completely ridiculous when compared to the Assassins and I was killing them in one blow (or close to) most of the time.

I might think about taking a character specialising in Evasion, Stealth and Unarmed next. I haven't really tried any of those skills properly before. And if I go for those it may free up inventory and STR points for other things.

[Fljotsdale]

[QUOTE=Ravager] Heh. I haven't been playing RPG's that long. Probably since sometime just before BGII was released.
A good example of taking on armies is probably Dungeon Siege, that's just fight your way from A to B and little else. But that is an 'Action' RPG. [/quote]

'Action' games are no-brainers, imo. But a LOT of people love 'em.


[QUOTE=Ravager]Only 6/7 skill pts a level? Wow, that must make things tricky.[/quote]

Don't forget you get 10 points on top of your INT total, so she gets 16/17.

[QUOTE=Ravager]Evasion is useful. I think I had less than 100 points in it but that still gave a 10% chance (maybe more) of evading a blow. As for Sneak I think it allows you to gain most of the experience from an enemy within your sight and may be useful for getting past/behind archer types.[/quote]
Yeah, my girl has over 20 AC from Evasion, as well as (iirc) 13% chance of evading a blow. I don't remeber the exact figure, offhand.

[QUOTE=Ravager]Well, I managed to complete Lionheart today. [/quote]

Oh, GREAT!!

[QUOTE=Ravager]Was easier than the last time as I managed to disarm that summoning trap and just used potionms of Extra Healing and Fire Protection.[/quote]
Disarming that trap is essential, imo!

[QUOTE=Ravager]Then it was just a matter of time. I think I managed to just get up to level 48. I levelled up just after going through the portal to the last battle.
I also had just over 200 ranged and Two-Handed Melee but I only just the crossbow in that battle. Otherwise it does get very tough. I eventried the Speech option but it failed as expected. [/quote]

Yeah, I failed that as well. I'm hoping to do better with another char I have in mind, when I've completed with the Feralkin. Two Magic skills (Thought: Electric, Divine: Smite) and Diplomacy as Tags. And she will use One-hand melee, though not as a Tag skill.

[QUOTE=Ravager]I was wondering why there were so many guard dogs in the final areas. They seem completely ridiculous when compared to the Assassins and I was killing them in one blow (or close to) most of the time. [/quote]

I thought it was pretty stupid as well. But they could have infested the place with desert scorpions... :speech:

[QUOTE=Ravager]I might think about taking a character specialising in Evasion, Stealth and Unarmed next. I haven't really tried any of those skills properly before. And if I go for those it may free up inventory and STR points for other things.[/QUOTE]

I've thought about using Unarmed. There is a nice Ring of the Iron Fist. But... eh... I don't think I would feel safe without a weapon! ROFL!!

[Ravager]

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]Don't forget you get 10 points on top of your INT total, so she gets 16/17.[/QUOTE]

Ahh, I'd assumed you'd taken an INT that gave out 6/7 points maximum (or the trait that reduces skill points.

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]Disarming that trap is essential, imo![/QUOTE]

It certainly helps a lot, I think when I was unable to disarm it I got completely swarmed, had to use all my Firepowder Kegs (though it was fun to kill 20 or so enemies with 5 kegs at once ) and all my healing potions.
This time I was able to stand back and hardly needed to heal myself. I could even stand near one of the spawning Hujark Acolytes and kill it through the use of a Necklace that did 1-3 points of cold damage every few seconds...

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]Yeah, I failed that as well. I'm hoping to do better with another char I have in mind, when I've completed with the Feralkin. Two Magic skills (Thought: Electric, Divine: Smite) and Diplomacy as Tags. And she will use One-hand melee, though not as a Tag skill.[/QUOTE]

Having any luck with that? (Or another character)
Like I usually do, I need some kind of kickstart to restart the game, eventually I'll go through Lionheart properly again, rathjer than lose interest quicky, which is what I seem to be doing lately.

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]I thought it was pretty stupid as well. But they could have infested the place with desert scorpions... :speech: [/QUOTE]

Yeah, I guess, there's only so many Scorpions that someone can stand...especially the Monstrous variety.

[QUOTE=Fljotsdale]I've thought about using Unarmed. There is a nice Ring of the Iron Fist. But... eh... I don't think I would feel safe without a weapon! ROFL!![/QUOTE]

Well, even though I was taking Two-Handed Weapons in my last run-through, I still kept picking up shields (though I'd hardly use thenm), I can't stand to leave good stuff behind.
Besides all the weapon damages are very useful, though maybe the Slayer perk would compensate, it looks VERY powerful.

[Fljotsdale]

Meh... I got bored. I get dissatisfied with a char after a while, and want to try with another... and again... and again. Which is why I have only completed one game! I probably wouldn't have done that if you hadn't been around, either! :laugh:

Hm.

What say we each create a similar character - a HH fighter, for example, but with the other Tag skills of our own choosing, and sort of compete to see how we each get on? Maybe we should use the same race as well?

I'm not saying we should compete to see who gets to the end first, because we have different amounts of time we can spend on the game.
But it would be interesting to see what goodies we find, what level we end with, stuff like that. And we could post our char STATS and such from time to time, to see how they compare.

What do you think?

[Ravager]

Hah. I think we've begun to powergame Lionheart...

Yeah, that sounds like a good idea.
I'd suggest going with either a Human or Demokin character, those generally seem to have more options open to them during the game.

[Fljotsdale]

Heh! Never thought of that...!

Demokin, then, imo. More Mana.

When shall we start?

[Ravager]

I don't mind when we start. I suppose we can just post our initial stats whenever ready, which will be sometime during the day for me I think.

And Demokin's fine by me.

[Fljotsdale]

I'm about to go to bed - it's 12.30am in the UK - and I will be out part of tomorrow; but I should have a char ready by late afternoon my time.

Not sure I'll have much time to play until after the Christmas thing, but you can bet I'll find SOME time!

[Ravager]

Yeah, I live in the UK too. That was the kind of time I was planning to sort out mine.

Heh. Yeah, I'm confident.

[Fljotsdale]

Here is my char:

Name: Fidelia Fidelis (Don't laugh!:laugh: )
Race: Demokin
Spirit: Elemental
Tags: Unarmed, Lockpick, Divine:Fortitude

Points per level:17

Attributes:
STR 8
PER 6 (with Stargazer)
END 5
CHA 5
INT 7 (with RM Trait)
AGI 8
Luck 3

Racial Trait: Forked Tongue
Traits: Studious Tinkerer, Renaissance Man

Current level 4
Current XP 9478

Aggregate Fight: 74 (of which 41 Unarmed)
Aggregate Thief: 162 (including Temp points)
Aggregate Divine: 48

Lvl 2 perk: Swift Learner

Also have:
First green crystal
Sceptre of Bone
Stargazer perk
Eloquent Works (Shakespeare)
Ring of Promise (Shakespeare)

[Ravager]

Looks good.
I took my character stats just on the level 1 to level 2 area of experience. I think I just managed level 3 today.

Lionheart Character

Tordek
Level 1
36 HP (On access to Lvl 2)
56 Mana (On access to Lvl 2)
47 AC
Demokin Male
Divine Spirit
Racial Trait: Lucky Devil +1 Luck, -15 Speech
Optional Trait:Good Natured +35 Barter –5 to Melee skills
Tag Skills: Unarmed, Ranged, Tribal Magic: Domination

STR: 6
PER: 6
END: 5
CHA: 5
INT: 6
AGI: 7
LUC: 7 (6)

AP: 8
HR: 2
Crit Chance: 7

Skills:
Tribal Magic
10 Domination
All other branches at 0
Thought Magic – 0
Divine Magic- All branches at 1
Thieving Skills
At 20 each apart from Diplomacy (16)
Barter at 51, Speech at 1
Melee Skills
Unarmed 24
One Handed Melee 15
Two Handed 14
Ranged Weapons 30
Evasion 19

I also have the Sceptre of Bone and the Prophet's Amulet.