Call to All : Uncheesy League !

PDF · Post by **PDF** » Mon Aug 06, 2001 1:36 am

Hi all,
As a very long-time AD&D player (played 1st Ed in the early 80’s&#8230

, I greatly enjoy BG and IwD game series. Only problem I have is that there are numerous exploits and cheesy tactics that spoils the game challenge and fun !

I mean here those « tactics » that won’t be possible in a PnP game because the DM will manage NPCs/foes reactions better than the BG AI. Personally I restrict myself from using them, and will be interested in having response to this thread as an commitment from the repliers to abide by those no-cheese rules (although I’m French :eek : ) :

1. No « summons provokes fights » - so that Liches waste Time Stops / Wails / Imprisonments on wolfes and Gnolls

2. No « stair comebacks » : leaving an area/coming back 5 minutes later so that enemy protections have expired . You CAN flee an area, but come back HOURS later only !
3. No Cloudkill – at all…I’m not easy with this one, as the game allows the spell, but frankly the AI can’t handle it and let its magic users dying in the middle of the clouds, so…away !
4. No pickpocketing exploits –neither on foes (Kangaxx, Tolgerias) or in shops (stealing/reselling stuff in the same « smuggler » shop)
5. No « trapping » - that is putting scores of traps around not-yet-red enemies (Firkraag, Demo&#8230

. Put ONE trap if your thief manages to be invisible/hidden/non detectable, and that’s all !

That’s all that comes to my mind for the moment, but surely there are others points to add, I’ll edit as needed.
I voluntarily WON’T enter into the « no save/reaload » debate, as it is a totally different question.

All who will answer at the call will earn the title of « Uncheesy Knight of Amn »

polaris · Post by **polaris** » Mon Aug 06, 2001 2:34 am

What about the Shadow Dragon? If you have the wardstone, then the Dragon is prevented from noticing you. It seems to me that in that special case, the 'trap' trick is perfectly justifiable.

-Polaris

PDF · Post by **PDF** » Mon Aug 06, 2001 2:41 am

Point granted, Polaris, in this case it's OK - the "no trapping" was to say that ypu should'nt ABUSE the AI silliness as regarding traps...

PDF · Post by **PDF** » Mon Aug 06, 2001 7:16 am

Bump

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Mon Aug 06, 2001 7:23 am

Originally posted by PDF:
Bump

Hmm - bumping a topic after 5 hours

ThorinOakensfield · Post by **ThorinOakensfield** » Mon Aug 06, 2001 7:52 am

@Xandax, he/she has yet to have learned the art(?) of bumping.
Bumping Rules:
Bump when the topic is off the first page.
Bump if it has any use to people(although it would be preffered if one just gave a link to it)

PDF · Post by **PDF** » Mon Aug 06, 2001 8:02 am

OK OK all, I apologize, was a little stitchy, bumped too quickly, sorry...
I was disappointed with the lack of interest, on the BIS forum there has been 25 replies vs 2 here, so...
Won't touch it before tomorrow, promised

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Mon Aug 06, 2001 8:05 am

Originally posted by PDF:
OK OK all, I apologize, was a little stitchy, bumped too quickly, sorry...
I was disappointed with the lack of interest, on the BIS forum there has been 25 replies vs 2 here, so...
Won't touch it before tomorrow, promised

*LOL* - well compared to other bumps - it was pretty harmless - I was just amused by the fact that only 5 -6 hours had passed since creation.

ThorinOakensfield · Post by **ThorinOakensfield** » Mon Aug 06, 2001 8:06 am

No problem. Don't worry, a rush of people wil come sometime, although the boards have been unusally quiet the past few days, all of them.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Mon Aug 06, 2001 8:07 am

Originally posted by ThorinOakensfield:
No problem. Don't worry, a rush of people wil come sometime, although the boards have been unusally quiet the past few days, all of them.

I feel that most of this board is always quite in the weekends - just goes to prove that most people spam from work

Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Mon Aug 06, 2001 8:21 am

I agree on the trap thing. It really looks stupid making those traps right under Firkraag's nose without getting any hostile reaction. However it would be better indeed if such trap-making be possible only if the thief manages to make himself invisible.

reedimus · Post by **reedimus** » Mon Aug 06, 2001 8:36 am

what if you set up traps on the stairs? I'm not sure how far dragons can see, but if that happens to be out of his sight, is that cheesy?

PDF · Post by **PDF** » Mon Aug 06, 2001 8:46 am

Mmm, luring the dragon/enemy INTO previously laid traps is OK AS LONG AS you didn't lay traps for a week

!!
Let's move on, don't just focus on trap-laying...

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Mon Aug 06, 2001 9:15 am

Originally posted by Maharlika:
It really looks stupid making those traps right under Firkraag's nose without getting any hostile reaction.

Maybe Firkraag is sooo arrogant and overconfident (common Dragon traits) that he's simply amused by the puny human(oid) building all those toys at his feet in the hope of harming him.

Is he in for a surprise...

Laurelei · Post by **Laurelei** » Mon Aug 06, 2001 11:28 am

I can't join the uncheesy league because 1) I think cheese is a state of mind--lots of people here just use the cheese and come up with a rational explanation why they think it's okay

and 2) I like to pick and choose my cheese for different games. This particular runthrough I am using very little cheese and having a ball (and a real challenge--it sucks being broke

) but in at least one runthrough in the near future I intend to get and use the BMU, and if that isn't cheese I don't know what is

Silvanerian · Post by **Silvanerian** » Mon Aug 06, 2001 12:01 pm

Hmm...

About all that talk of cheese going around:
I never exploit any of the cheesy tactics as they are no fun. If I have a 13th level paladin (with or without crew - mostly without) that just bashed his way through Firkraags dungeon, I would never ever use any cheesy easy-to-kill tactic to get rid of the main boss, as that's the guy that's supposed to be the challenge the the top fun battle in that dungeon. Why would I wanna waste that fight to cheese?
And that's even without all the roleplaying reasons for not to do it the cheesy way.

The only cheese or exploits I use are - SOMETIMES - Shadowkeeper. And why? Because I don't wanna sit rolling for half an hour to get what stats I think fit my perception of a PC.
I want him to be a child of a god - but not to ruin the challenges of the game. (e.i. give him 18+ natural str.)
It's a fine balance. But I enjoy it more playing a character with 15+ in average stats, as it fits my perception of the guy better.
When I want to play a regular person, I play PnP - also because I don't think that BGII and especially ToB is made for the average joe type of character.
What's the deal with some muggers in the dock district having like 100 HP each?!
And that's just one example - but I don't think I'll go into that discussion just yet.

Some might say, that my use of Shadowkeeper is the "nasty supreme" kind of cheese, but I really don't.

But I'm sure it doesn't qyalify me as a Uncheesy Knight...heheh.

-Silvanerian

Izgoth · Post by **Izgoth** » Mon Aug 06, 2001 12:51 pm

How do you think you can kill any of the more powerful liches wthout summons?

Too much sorc soloing perhaps. I really don't remember how I used to kill liches with a full party.

Jelctu · Post by **Jelctu** » Mon Aug 06, 2001 1:04 pm

To kill liche I just send my paladin alone
his resistance to magic is so hight(all save neg. and 65%MR) that he pratically can't be hurt by magic.

MordorMan · Post by **MordorMan** » Mon Aug 06, 2001 1:15 pm

I don't like cheese, except maybe some parma cheese on my spaghetti. After all, what more is cheese than bacterial excrement?

I'll sign up for the uncheesy league.

MM

ThorinOakensfield · Post by **ThorinOakensfield** » Mon Aug 06, 2001 2:59 pm

A bit off topic:
I was expecting Firkaag to have more treasure. I've heard so much on how red's always have 10 king's hoards. Firkaag only had the Holy Avenger and a few trinkets. I serioulsy expected a moutain of gold, weapons all unique. I would love a game in which a dragon fight is the toughest in the game, but the rewards are amazing!!! Exotic weapons. Great armor made by dwarven smiths a 1000 years ago. Remains of weapons and armor and spell books which were on now dead adventurers.