Doesn't anyone play Lionheart anymore?

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:06 pm

[QUOTE=BallOfFire]There are more/harder enemies on multiplayer, so yeah it is still a challenge. And when one person dies, the other can revive them with partial health at the cost of attributes (temporarily).

What is great about it is the loading. You make a mistake, the host loads the last saved game. Just like single player. Takes about 2 seconds to remedy a mistake, whereas in lots of singleplayer games turned multiplayer you have to spend half an hour quitting, rehosting, choosing settings, loading, etc.

Pity now I'm thinking maybe my character was a bad choice. If I ONLY use spells, will I just run out of mana in a few seconds and be screwed? Please say yes, so I can justify having 74 points in Unarmed. ^^[/QUOTE]

Depends on how high you mana level is and how high the spell level. Obviously, high level spells will use up mana fast. As a Wizard, you should be aiming to have around 900 - 1,000+ mana by the end of the game, and it won't seem like much, either.

74 Unarmed is very low. What level is your char? You should have had at least 50 by level 5, if not a lot more, since you will have a high INT char with a decent amount of skill points to spend.
Look out for a ring of The Metal Fist, too, which you mnay be lucky enough to find as a random item or in a merchant's inventory. Items that boost STR are also good for Unarmed.

Actually, Unarmed and high Magic skills may not be an ideal match, since you need a lot of points in STR and AGI, as well as INT and CHA. But it will be intersting!

BallOfFire · Post by **BallOfFire** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:29 pm

I can't believe I'm considering this again, but if I made a pure mage character could I get by without any physical attacks, or would I run out of mana halfway through battles and get poked by lots of sticks?

As for needing high charisma on a mage... how does it affect mana? Is it just at start that charisma matters, or on every level up? Cuz mine is really low. I mean REALLY low. Like 2 or 3.

I like how the only two active threads have now switched roles. Whoops.

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:32 am

[QUOTE=BallOfFire] I can't believe I'm considering this again, but if I made a pure mage character could I get by without any physical attacks, or would I run out of mana halfway through battles and get poked by lots of sticks?[/quote]

I've never tried it. Maybe Ravager has. But I would suggest you Tag Ranged, as well as whatever magical stuff you want.
A suggestion: Use a Spirit that is NOT the spirit of the Tagged magic skill. For example, by taking a Divine Spirit and Taggging a Thought magic - (AND take the Studious Tinkerer Trait) - you will be able to start ALL Divine Magic branches with 4 points (without having to spend one point in each branch) as well as having a 10 point start in the one Thought branch. The advantages of having this boost in Divine is obvious.

[QUOTE=BallOfFire]As for needing high charisma on a mage... how does it affect mana? Is it just at start that charisma matters, or on every level up? Cuz mine is really low. I mean REALLY low. Like 2 or 3.[/quote]

Er... I'm not sure HOW much it affects it, percentage-wise, but CHA DOES have a BIG effect on Mana. So, I think, does the number of skill points you feed into your magic skills. Ravager mentioned that to me, and I think he is right.

[QUOTE=BallOfFire]I like how the only two active threads have now switched roles. Whoops.[/QUOTE]

Yeah.

BallOfFire · Post by **BallOfFire** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:17 pm

I did a bunch of experimenting with different attributes, which took forever because of the cutscenes at the start, but finally realized that charisma and perception both drastically affect mana capacity, not only at the beginning but each time you put points into a magic skill. Meaning I'm starting over. Only question is, do I put points in Ranged as you said, or gamble on pure magic... The guy I am playing with is playing a Ranged character already, so it just seems a bit redundant.

By the way... I have to ask... why does an "old lady" play a game like Lionheart anyway? I'm quite curious.

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:03 pm

[QUOTE=BallOfFire]I did a bunch of experimenting with different attributes, which took forever because of the cutscenes at the start, but finally realized that charisma and perception both drastically affect mana capacity, not only at the beginning but each time you put points into a magic skill. Meaning I'm starting over. Only question is, do I put points in Ranged as you said, or gamble on pure magic... The guy I am playing with is playing a Ranged character already, so it just seems a bit redundant. [/quote]

Didn't know Perception did. Thanks for the tip.

Hm. You can always try without any Fight skills. Personally, I wouldn't, I think. There are times you will run out of mana and not have any convenient floating blue balls around. Might be worth trying though... I'll give it a go next time round.

[QUOTE=BallOfFire]By the way... I have to ask... why does an "old lady" play a game like Lionheart anyway? I'm quite curious.[/QUOTE]

Because I'm waiting for Elder Scrolls:Oblivion, and it's something to do. And I've played all my other games to death - the ones that will still play on current computers, that is. I started playing computer games in my mid-50s. I also write, compile crosswords for a local paper, do embroidery, give poetry readings and read an inordinate amount. I used to act in a local AmDram company as well, besides being Secretary and Treasurer.

Anything else you want to know? :laugh:

Ravager · Post by **Ravager** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:32 pm

[QUOTE=BallOfFire]I like how the only two active threads have now switched roles. Whoops.[/QUOTE]

Oooh. Can't have that! :laugh:

I've never dared to try a pure mage type, in fact I very rarely bother with any of the elemental magic.

The Spirit Elixir potions are quite common, those can be used, but I remember fighting an enemy using purely magic as I couldn't hit it, I ran out of Mana very quickly...

@Fljotsdale, you have old DOS games that won't work any more, I suppose?

BallOfFire · Post by **BallOfFire** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:37 pm

for 10 perception and 2 charisma u get 12 mana per 10 skill points
for 10 charisma and 1 perception u get 18 mana per 10 skill points
for 10 perception and 10 charisma u get 25 mana per 10 skill points

You don't want to know how long it took me to figure that out cuz of the cutscenes. ><

Since you get mana from putting skill points in spells, going all spells MIGHT be better than splitting between spells and ranged, since it means more mana. I shall find out.

Edit: Bah... I decided to get ranged afterall, simply because there wasn't another skill worth tagging.

Edit again: Hey, you can't cast another spell during the cooldown of the last one! Maybe if they are different types, but I haven't tried that. I tried alternating with the cold spells and they use the same cooldown. ><

Edit yet again: I'm waiting on Oblivion too, I can barely wait. But if you want a really good game to play while you wait, try Baldur's Gate 2. It's pretty old now, but considering how much time you've devoted to Lionheart you will probably die of a heart attack from being so happy and excited when you first play BG2. Seriously.

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:19 pm

[QUOTE=BallOfFire]for 10 perception and 2 charisma u get 12 mana per 10 skill points
for 10 charisma and 1 perception u get 18 mana per 10 skill points
for 10 perception and 10 charisma u get 25 mana per 10 skill points

You don't want to know how long it took me to figure that out cuz of the cutscenes. ><[/quote]

I'm impressed. First time you've impressed me. :laugh:

Er... don't you hit the enter button to cut the cut scenes? After the first time, I cut 'em out every time.

[QUOTE=BallOfFire] Since you get mana from putting skill points in spells, going all spells MIGHT be better than splitting between spells and ranged, since it means more mana. I shall find out.

Edit: Bah... I decided to get ranged afterall, simply because there wasn't another skill worth tagging.[/quote]

What DID you Tag?

[QUOTE=BallOfFire] Edit again: Hey, you can't cast another spell during the cooldown of the last one! Maybe if they are different types, but I haven't tried that. I tried alternating with the cold spells and they use the same cooldown. ><[/QUOTE]

Hm. Hadn't noticed that :speech: But then, I usually run at least two schools of magic: Divine and Thought, or Divine and Tribal, or Tribal and Thought...
That way there is always an aggressive spell available when you need to alternate. I like Divine:Smite because you have the Holy Smite spell that does fire and electrical damage, so it's as good as the Thought branch spells.

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:31 pm

[QUOTE=Ravager]
@Fljotsdale, you have old DOS games that won't work any more, I suppose?[/QUOTE]

No. Just games that don't recognise either Windows XP or my Graphics Card, or both.

And it's silly what games I CAN play, and what I can't. For instance, I can play Tombraider - even the oldest! - and the original Civilization, but not Bethesda's Battlespire. And it goes like that with lots of 'em - some earlier games I can play, but some later ones I can't.
And I haven't been able to play Albion for years, and I loved that game, even though it was rubbish and I knew every move to make and every location inside out.

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:34 pm

[QUOTE=BallOfFire] Edit yet again: I'm waiting on Oblivion too, I can barely wait. But if you want a really good game to play while you wait, try Baldur's Gate 2. It's pretty old now, but considering how much time you've devoted to Lionheart you will probably die of a heart attack from being so happy and excited when you first play BG2. Seriously.[/QUOTE]

I've played 'em all. To death.

BallOfFire · Post by **BallOfFire** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:18 pm

Have you tried BG2 with mods? There are some ridiculously amazing ones out there. There are literally hundreds to choose from, and I can recommend the best.

Here's a list of my favorite 10 games I posted on another forum the other day. Try them out, you won't be disappointed. Although Zelda, Doom 2, Mario Kart, and Goldeneye are old enough that you probably would be.

1. Final Fantasy VII (most emotional game of all time, excellent story, well developed characters, creative battle system, Sephiroth, Aeris...)
2. Baldur's Gate 2 (Irenicus is PERFECT, best dialogue in any game, ever, amazing battle system, perfect graphics, engaging storyline, unbelievable freedom)
3. Morrowind (most open-ended game possible while retaining play value, which it definitely had, amazing graphics, several books worth of dialogue, some literally in books, very customable characters, but unfortunately incredibly unbalanced and repetitious)
4. Starcraft (best rts game, most balanced rts game, amazing story, great editor for its time, best strategy interface)
5. Zelda: A Link to the Past (no game captures the feel of medieval fantasy quite like this game, nor that of the RPG feel without ruining the action through making it an actual RPG)
6. Goldeneye (way ahead of its time, best first person shooter, nearly perfect in all respects)
7. Doom 2 (pure action, pure fun, pure evil)
8. Mario Kart (homing turtle shells. nuff said)
9. Halo 2 (Halo 1 but improved in every way)
10. Doom 3[/b] (no game can scare me like this one, and no story can intrigue me quite as much)

KOTOR and KOTOR 2 would be in there probably, but I haven't completed either yet. Same goes for Neverwinter Nights and Baldur's Gate 2: Throne of Bhaal. As for Baldur's Gate 1, with the TuTu mod it would deserve a spot in there, but as is it just doesn't cut it.

I tagged Ranged, Ice, and Thought: Protection. I toss an iceball, shoot twice, toss another one, shoot twice... Ice is killin things quite nicely, although some areas have very little mana orbs so I have to run back or shoot with arrows between reloads to progress. It's ridiculously difficult on multiplayer, where I just imported him (which is sooo hard to figure out how to do, considering there is no import option in multiplayer). Enemies are twice as hard to hit and have double the hit points, or at least that's how it seems. Lots of reloading.

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 5:30 am

[QUOTE=BallOfFire] Have you tried BG2 with mods? There are some ridiculously amazing ones out there. There are literally hundreds to choose from, and I can recommend the best.

Here's a list of my favorite 10 games I posted on another forum the other day. Try them out, you won't be disappointed. Although Zelda, Doom 2, Mario Kart, and Goldeneye are old enough that you probably would be.

1. Final Fantasy VII (most emotional game of all time, excellent story, well developed characters, creative battle system, Sephiroth, Aeris...)
2. Baldur's Gate 2 (Irenicus is PERFECT, best dialogue in any game, ever, amazing battle system, perfect graphics, engaging storyline, unbelievable freedom)
3. Morrowind (most open-ended game possible while retaining play value, which it definitely had, amazing graphics, several books worth of dialogue, some literally in books, very customable characters, but unfortunately incredibly unbalanced and repetitious)
4. Starcraft (best rts game, most balanced rts game, amazing story, great editor for its time, best strategy interface)
5. Zelda: A Link to the Past (no game captures the feel of medieval fantasy quite like this game, nor that of the RPG feel without ruining the action through making it an actual RPG)
6. Goldeneye (way ahead of its time, best first person shooter, nearly perfect in all respects)
7. Doom 2 (pure action, pure fun, pure evil)
8. Mario Kart (homing turtle shells. nuff said)
9. Halo 2 (Halo 1 but improved in every way)
10. Doom 3[/b] (no game can scare me like this one, and no story can intrigue me quite as much)

KOTOR and KOTOR 2 would be in there probably, but I haven't completed either yet. Same goes for Neverwinter Nights and Baldur's Gate 2: Throne of Bhaal. As for Baldur's Gate 1, with the TuTu mod it would deserve a spot in there, but as is it just doesn't cut it.[/quote]

Isn't Final Fantasy a MMORPG only? I really would like to play it, but not on-line.
Baldur's Gate series, including Icewind Dale games, I have played, and also Morrowind (so much I'm now sick of it); loved Daggerfall as well.
Not played the others on your list, but I have watched my grandsons playing Doom and they are way too violent for my taste. And I'm not mad about platform games, which I assume Mario Kart is.

[QUOTE=BallOfFire]I tagged Ranged, Ice, and Thought: Protection. I toss an iceball, shoot twice, toss another one, shoot twice... Ice is killin things quite nicely, although some areas have very little mana orbs so I have to run back or shoot with arrows between reloads to progress. It's ridiculously difficult on multiplayer, where I just imported him (which is sooo hard to figure out how to do, considering there is no import option in multiplayer). Enemies are twice as hard to hit and have double the hit points, or at least that's how it seems. Lots of reloading.[/QUOTE]

Nice selection.

I suppose it's harder because there are two of you to kill 'em? Still, the harder it is, the more satisfaction in beating the game.

BallOfFire · Post by **BallOfFire** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:00 am

Wow. You are in for one of the greatest experiences of your life, assuming you don't put too much emphasis on graphics. Final Fantasy VII is NOT an online game, there have been like 12 or something and only ONE was online. All of the others were made to be singleplayer masterpieces. Each one is in its own world, and exists independently (kind of like the Elder Scrolls, except in different worlds altogether instead of different areas, although there are a couple exceptions). Final Fantasy VII is quite possibly the most popular RPG game of all time, and the only Final Fantasy game that I played through (I recently tried 8, but moved on to Lionheart and KOTOR).

Final Fantasy VII will become your new world. You fall in love with the characters and get sucked into the story as much as any book. The storyline is beyond fascinating. This game is practically my Bible. There are endless layers of meaning and symbolism, and each time I find something new it's like I just found the meaning to life. One of the ingenius things about this game is you never truly discover for certain all of the important details, so there are dozens of theories on everything, many of which have so much support it is difficult to choose between them.

The problem is that it is VERY old now. I played it in Junior High, and now I'm a sophomore in college. But the graphics, at least to me, seem to get better each time I play, and the storyline only becomes more incredible.

This game made me cry. Every time I played it. No game will ever make you feel so much and care about the characters so much. The music is unforgettable, as are the characters. They made a movie recently based on the game, which I've watched about 85 times now. I can now understand Japanese because of it...

You HAVE to get this game. Trust me, if Lionheart can hold your attention for more than half an hour, this game will change your life. I don't even know if they sell it anymore, but I managed to download it online (I bought a copy too, it's just not at college with me, so it's ok =P). Get the game, play it, and tell me what you thought of it in a couple weeks when you've finally completed it so it's closed for the first time since you got it.

Just keep in mind that FF7 is old and classic, so don't be expecting spectacular graphics or battle systems, just a life-changing game.

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:47 pm

Hm. Sounds good. I wonder, though, since it is old, if it will play on my machine? Can it recognise XP? And Modern Graphics cards?

When was it first published?

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:16 pm

Just checked. FF VII for the PC is Win 95 only. And FF X1 is multiplayer only. Both of which pee me off bigtime.

Ravager · Post by **Ravager** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:52 pm

That's why I didn't get FFVII either.

I can recommend Neverwinter Nights. That's a very good game, especially with all the modules that add more adventures to the game.

BallOfFire · Post by **BallOfFire** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:54 pm

I have XP and I play FF7. I think there is a patch you can download to make them compatable, just do a google search. I didn't have to bother with that though since I got the Ultima edition, which is XP compatable. Don't give up on FF7. Find a way. It's worth it. Do a search for FF7 and you will find thousands of sites that agree with me on its magnificence.

I tried Neverwinter Knights and was horrified and disappointed. I gave up within a couple hours, after spending weeks planning my character previous to playing the game. Maybe I just didn't like the starting dungeon.

Ravager · Post by **Ravager** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:09 am

You spent weeks planning before you even started it? That's a bit difficult to do without knowing a bit of what it's like, isn't it?

*nods* I'll have another look at FFVII at some point then.

I already have the GBA versions of FF I, II, IV and Tactics, so if I can get a good PC version, I'd like that.

BallOfFire · Post by **BallOfFire** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:36 pm

Believe me, it is quite possible to spend weeks on planning a character in a game before playing it. I did so in KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Icewind Dale 1and 2, and even severeal days before first playing Lionheart (and weeks after). The reason I was able to sucessfully plan my Neverwinter Nights character so well though was that I had already played the Baldur's Gate games. All I did was read the manual about 30 times, read and post threads on the game in the BioWare forums multiple hours a day, and take notes in Word.

Ravager · Post by **Ravager** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:49 pm

Heh. That makes you the opposite to me, I'd far prefer to jump in than plan most of the time. *shrugs*

@Fljotsdale, thought I'd update you on my progress, I completed the Crypt, killed off most of the Revenants with a slightly new tactic - open the sarcophagi with 2 Revenants with a character in Stealth Mode. Once outside of their sight I'll take the character out of Stealth and distract one Revenant out, then I cast Divine Favour, Slow and usually 2x Weaken Enemies and the Revenant goes down pretty simply.

Now I'm up to Level 30, hopefully I'll sort out some stats for people to look at tomorrow.