Thoughts on new policy (sorry guys, but lite-spam)

[mr_sir]

And yes, Buck announced he wouldn't discuss it...people have said it's between Luis, myself and Buck. Yet, neither of us have been provided with a reason, it almost seems as if someone didn't want us there but didn't have a cast-iron reason following the rules to do that.

Buck would not remove someone's status as a moderator unless he felt he had good reason to do so. If he feels that any of the moderators, including myself, should not be a moderator then that's his decision to make and he would put a lot of thought into it before taking such an action. I do not believe it is something he would do on the spur of the moment without much deliberation.

[Luis Antonio]

CE, I asked Xan this, but he didn't respond with examples. Now, I know you are an ardent debator, constantly posting in threads to argue, so I'm certain you'll post some examples to prove what you are saying.

I am expecting that as well. Maybe we need to get rid of the emotional side, and post only the facts - wherever they are.

Buck would not remove someone's status as a moderator unless he felt he had good reason to do so. If he feels that any of the moderators, including myself, should not be a moderator then that's his decision to make and he would put a lot of thought into it before taking such an action. I do not believe it is something he would do on the spur of the moment without much deliberation.

Well, I do not think there is not a good reason, Mr_sir, but I would be deeply pleased if I would read this, without any ad hominems, nor phalacies(sp?), or the intervention of my ex-fellow moderators.

[Ravager]

Buck would not remove someone's status as a moderator unless he felt he had good reason to do so. If he feels that any of the moderators, including myself, should not be a moderator then that's his decision to make and he would put a lot of thought into it before taking such an action. I do not believe it is something he would do on the spur of the moment without much deliberation.

I agree...so why wouldn't he tell me that?

[C Elegans]

CE, I asked Xan this, but he didn't respond with examples. Now, I know you are an ardent debator, constantly posting in threads to argue, so I'm certain you'll post some examples to prove what you are saying.

First, you should consider that stating I am "constantly posting in threads to argue" is an ad hominem. Second, I as I stated, Buck and moderators are not going to enclose information that has been discussed and dealt with at the Moderator Forum. Thus, you prove my point here: It is very easy to spread lies about events such as Moderator decisions, Buck's decisions and bannings, since nobody is going to "prove" for the members what really happened. This board has 30000 members. For the 6 years Gamebanshee has existed, Moderator activities and member bannings have very rarely been discussed in public. This policy you have to accept as a member. As I stated earlier in this thread, posts are deleted daily and member accounts are banned frequently for violating forum rules. Nobody is excempt from the rules.

@Ravager: As a former mod, you know that the Moderator Forum will not turn up in searches.

And please, you did say his friends, you did not single out people, so I expect you're talking about all of them.

I cannot take responsibility for your language definitions. I am not going to point out a specific person. The people who have posted things that violate the forum rules are informed about it.

Did you ask him? Because I tried, however he couldn't reach his pm and his email wasn't listed.

I assume you couldn't reach him because he was already banned by the time you tried to PM him.

[Luis Antonio]

I cannot take responsibility for your language definitions. I am not going to point out a specific person. The people who have posted things that violate the forum rules are informed about it.

You're avoiding his question, CE, please answer. Read the post again and do it, as you've asked people thousands of times in your threads. It is important that the replies come out to clarify this matter. All we see here is moderators denying things and saying it is wrong or that is not right but we see moderators telling "the only truth is that the policy is there and the rules are these and that Buck owns the forum" and that we know. We need answers.

[Damuna_Nova]

@Ravager: As a former mod, you know that the Moderator Forum will not turn up in searches.

He was talking about past SYM events, not mod forum ones.

[Xandax]

<snip>We need answers.

No you dont. You can't demand anything, but you already have the answers you need.

The forum policy of 1.500 post thread limit, was introduced because it is belive it will help moderating, not because it is "anti-spam" or any other such claims.

The banning of Lestat was because he posted confidential material leaked from the moderator forum, and used it as a attempt to target moderators.

The removal of you and Ravager's moderator status is purely between the two of you and Buck Satan. If Buck has chosen not to disclose the information, then it is still a matter between you and him.

There are your answers. It is not as complex as you attempt to make the issue.

[mr_sir]

I agree...so why wouldn't he tell me that?

Thats not something I can answer as I had no part in any decision that was made, nor do I expect to be part of any decision like that. Buck has his reasons and these are between him and yourself, nobody else.

[dj_venom]

First, you should consider that stating I am "constantly posting in threads to argue" is an ad hominem.

And you're assuming that mens rea was in existence, when in actual fact, it was not. But let's cut the latin and talk in english shall we?

Second, I as I stated, Buck and moderators are not going to enclose information that has been discussed and dealt with at the Moderator Forum.

I was not asking you to. You insinuate that several members for his cause have lied, therefore, at least one of those should be able to be shown, afterall, only two here were mods, yet several were arguing.

This board has 30000 members. For the 6 years Gamebanshee has existed, Moderator activities and member bannings have very rarely been discussed in public.

I'm not asking about that. You referred to me/others as liars, I wish to see a defence for your defamation, or I wish for restitution. Your call.

This policy you have to accept as a member. As I stated earlier in this thread, posts are deleted daily and member accounts are banned frequently for violating forum rules. Nobody is excempt from the rules.

Of course no one is exempt, and I know I must accept. But, I also know it is not an offence to state my opinion, which I am doing.

I cannot take responsibility for your language definitions. I am not going to point out a specific person. The people who have posted things that violate the forum rules are informed about it.

You aren't going to, or you can't? Surely, if these lies are so rampant, there should be ample proof.

I assume you couldn't reach him because he was already banned by the time you tried to PM him.

That is correct.

I wish to see some proof, and don't take this as sarcasm, I have seen your previous posts, you reply clinically, with facts backing your case. It's just surprising that you didn't have them here, which is why I really must ask, since I have seen on proof of these lies.

And if it's Latin that will help my case, then please, don't commit Ad Misericordiam to my posts, it's frustrating.

[Ravager]

The removal of you and Ravager's moderator status is purely between the two of you and Buck Satan. If Buck has chosen not to disclose the information, then it is still a matter between you and him.

Well, if I'm not supposed to know why I was demoted, why was I a mod in the first place? I was helping the GB community and I committed no mistakes in the moderating duties I had, yet I receive no reason, yes that may be between me and Buck, but since he refuses to discuss it, I have no other option bar to discuss it here.

[Luis Antonio]

No you dont. You can't demand anything, but you already have the answers you need.

The forum policy of 1.500 post thread limit, was introduced because it is belive it will help moderating, not because it is "anti-spam" or any other such claims.

The banning of Lestat was because he posted confidential material leaked from the moderator forum, and used it as a attempt to target moderators.

The removal of you and Ravager's moderator status is purely between the two of you and Buck Satan.

There are your answers. It is not as complex as you attempt to make the issue.

You're being rude to me, Xandax, I beg of you not to do so. I can deal with answers nicely enough, as prooven in the moderators forum, even though I can put an extra drop or two of emotion in my posts. I demand an answer, yes, and I have every right to demand so.

Anyway, material leaked from the moderator forum is not a privilege of Lestat. Rumors and quotes and pieces of text circulated the mebers and ended um in my hands loads of times before I was a moderator. People have friends, Xandax, I wonder who you sent information to. Moderators have close people, those who are in MSN and if those people are in the threat range, i'm sure they will receive warnings or recomendations - even though if it aint a quote from a big old moderator on the mod discussion forum

It is ridiculous that this is kept in such a secret. Ridiculous. People care about it. Someone pointed that this policy was aproved and within minutes threads were closed, as if the moderators in charge were smiling. I dont believe so, because it is our duty, but strangely enough, after two mderators who were against the policy kept discussing the matter SECRETLY IN MODERATOR FORUM, the forum owner wants to kick them both out. Then, posts disappear. Then moderators start to spam - because now it is funnier to spam - and participate in threads where they would never look at before. And then, moderators point me that the truth is simple: Close your eyes, there are four majestic paragraphs that resolve everything: Swallow this, Luis, swallow this.

NO. I wont. Explain the four lines above to me. I want those lines dissected. I want the truth.

[C Elegans]

Again, you say I lie and provide no proof whatsoever.

You lie when you claim Buck has not explained why you and Luis were demoted as moderators. You and Luis have received explanations for this, although other members have not.

Regarding other people's lies, there have been several lies posted in now deleted posts, lies about [sorry, see my post below, I cut this by mistake]

Providing an explanation on GB he cannot even see for himself is hardly adequate. The software itself says Lestat was banned for no reason.

What the software says is irrelevant. Again, you present your own interpretation. Lestat knows why he was banned. I am not going to discuss Lestat's banning more here, so please take it to Buck if you have further issues with this.

Oh, how about yours then? How about Xans, how about fables, how about anyone else's opinion?
Are you in command on GB? Are any of the other mods in command?

Buck is in command of GB, and all moderators are involved in using the Infraction system. Xan and Fable are moderators, as am I. You are not a moderator. Thus, your personal opinion of how the Infraction system should have been used to save Lestat from banning is not influencing how the systen is used. If you have suggestions or questions about the Infraction system, I suggest you PM Buck.

I'm putting forward a point of view backed up by facts, one that appear to have been ignored...ones that appear to have resulted in my demotion...

Again, your personal interpretation of the events will not be "debunked" since you continue to refer to your own previous behaviour and your subsequent demotion. You have been informed of why you are not a moderator anymore, and pretending that you have not will only cause this issue to deteriorate even more.

I am not going to post any confidential information regarding moderator policies and bannings. Do contact Buck with your demands, please. I am merely stating that it is a manipulative strategy to make false claims about things that members cannot check themselves since it is admin or moderator issues.

[dj_venom]

You missed my post there CE (you may be editing, I'm not sure). If you are editing, well then you'll see this after, and it may be ignored.

If you hadn't seen it, now when you read this, you will, so please scroll up and read my prevous one.

[Luis Antonio]

You lie when you claim Buck has not explained why you and Luis were demoted as moderators. You and Luis have received explanations for this, although other members have not.

Regarding other people's lies, there have been several lies posted in now deleted posts, lies about

What the software says is irrelevant. Again, you present your own interpretation. Lestat knows why he was banned. I am not going to discuss Lestat's banning more here, so please take it to Buck if you have further issues with this.

You lie. I have received no reason for being demoted. How could you know and point as such? Are you accessing my Personal Messages? NO. I have not been explained. YOU are lying.

What the software says is NOT irrelevant. What the bank software says when your account is bankrupt is NOT irrelevant. What the internet says when you cant access some site is NOT irrelevant. Dont give me dodges, reply to the questions.

Again, your personal interpretation of the events will not be "debunked" since you continue to refer to your own previous behaviour and your subsequent demotion. You have been informed of why you are not a moderator anymore, and pretending that you have not will only cause this issue to deteriorate even more.

No, we havent been. As you read "upstairs".

I am not going to post any confidential information regarding moderator policies and bannings. Do contact Buck with your demands, please. I am merely stating that it is a manipulative strategy to make false claims about things that members cannot check themselves since it is admin or moderator issues.

Ha! I didnt expect you to post anything confidential, CE. I have already contacted Buck with other demands. Now I'm asking you to stop walking in circles and replying the questions directed to you not to Buck, instead of debuking them because you cant seem to win the arguments raised.

[Ravager]

You lie when you claim Buck has not explained why you and Luis were demoted as moderators. You and Luis have received explanations for this, although other members have not.

An explanation limited entirely to a key phrase 'not being able to distance myself enough from the membership'. Yet, this, as I've said before and will continue to say, contradicts not a single GB rule...and no-one has provided either proof of this lack of distancing or the harm it can apparently do.

Regarding other people's lies, there have been several lies posted in now deleted posts, lies about

Lies about what exactly?

What the software says is irrelevant. Again, you present your own interpretation. Lestat knows why he was banned. I am not going to discuss Lestat's banning more here, so please take it to Buck if you have further issues with this.

As I've said Lestat has not received any explanation for his banning or an official warning. YOU are not an SYM mod, thus your PM to him was not an official statement or warned him that his actions would lead to a ban. No-one in the moderatorship DIRECTLY told him why he was banned. Fact.

Buck is in command of GB, and all moderators are involved in using the Infraction system. Xan and Fable are moderators, as am I. You are not a moderator. Thus, your personal opinion of how the Infraction system should have been used to save Lestat from banning is not influencing how the systen is used. If you have suggestions or questions about the Infraction system, I suggest you PM Buck.

I didn't say it would have saved Lestat from banning, I said it would have provided an official warning.

Again, your personal interpretation of the events will not be "debunked" since you continue to refer to your own previous behaviour and your subsequent demotion. You have been informed of why you are not a moderator anymore, and pretending that you have not will only cause this issue to deteriorate even more.

I never pretended anything, I have been honest from the start, despite your attempts to defame my character by continually saying I'm lying, which I do in fact regard as trolling and flamebait. I'm disappointed that you would stoop to such a level, CE.

[Vicsun]

You lie. I have received no reason for being demoted. How could you know and point as such? Are you accessing my Personal Messages? NO. I have not been explained. YOU are lying.

.

Moderator Status
Luis,

The recent events have literally put my daily work at a standstill, and the Moderator Discussion forum has turned into something it never used to be. Unfortunately, I do not feel that you are able to distance yourself from the standard membership enough to perform your modering duties effectively. Therefore, I'm removing the Moderator tag from your account.

You've been a very valuable member of the GameBanshee community for a long time and I sincerely hope to see you continue posting in the forums on a regular basis.

-Buck

[Xandax]

Well, if I'm not supposed to know why I was demoted, why was I a mod in the first place? I was helping the GB community and I committed no mistakes in the moderating duties I had, yet I receive no reason, yes that may be between me and Buck, but since he refuses to discuss it, I have no other option bar to discuss it here.

And pushing for it here will bring you excatly how closer to reasons only Buck can give?
So you do have an option, you just decide to not take it and consitantly post things which have no relevance on the current issue, for reasons I can imagine.
Your demotion was between you and Buck. Nobody else can nor should give you reasons, and you can continue to post about it here or any other forum you like, but that will not bring you closer to the answers you ask for.
Clearly that is not dificult to see.

You're being rude to me, Xandax, I beg of you not to do so. I can deal with answers nicely enough, as prooven in the moderators forum, even though I can put an extra drop or two of emotion in my posts. I demand an answer, yes, and I have every right to demand so.
<snip>

What "rights" do you have to demand answers? Especially given you have recived all the answers you can get from this source, namely the open forum.
As said above - only Buck can give you answers for your demotion. As for the other issues, they have been answered.

Anyway, material leaked from the moderator forum is not a privilege of Lestat. Rumors and quotes and pieces of text circulated the mebers and ended um in my hands loads of times before I was a moderator. People have friends, Xandax, I wonder who you sent information to. Moderators have close people, those who are in MSN and if those people are in the threat range, i'm sure they will receive warnings or recomendations - even though if it aint a quote from a big old moderator on the mod discussion forum

Before trying to question my integrity you really need to take a long hard look if you want to this debate to continue, because pesonal attacks of that nature is not something I'll stand for.
The fact that you in the past have recived information from the moderator forum does not make it right that others do.
The fact that you have recived such information does not give Lestat the validation to post it as he did.

It is ridiculous that this is kept in such a secret. Ridiculous. People care about it. Someone pointed that this policy was aproved and within minutes threads were closed, as if the moderators in charge were smiling.

Now this is where the lie aspect comes into play.
From the policy was announced until the first thread was closed a timespan of 5 hours passed.

I dont believe so, because it is our duty, but strangely enough, after two mderators who were against the policy kept discussing the matter SECRETLY IN MODERATOR FORUM, the forum owner wants to kick them both out.

Ask Buck why. He's the one who can answer it. It also had no effect on the policy or debate, because you were already outvoted by a vast majority.

Then, posts disappear.

Post always "dissapear" when they violate the forum rules.

Then moderators start to spam - because now it is funnier to spam - and participate in threads where they would never look at before.

Presumptions. Placing your own opinion of "spam" and "funnier to spam" as indicator of knowing other peoples posting habbits.

And then, moderators point me that the truth is simple: Close your eyes, there are four majestic paragraphs that resolve everything: Swallow this, Luis, swallow this.

NO. I wont. Explain the four lines above to me. I want those lines dissected. I want the truth.

The truth is very simple indeed and you have been given the answers you can get from here. What you choose to do with them is then fully your responsibility.

[C Elegans]

I'm not asking about that. You referred to me/others as liars, I wish to see a defence for your defamation, or I wish for restitution. Your call.
<snip>
You aren't going to, or you can't? Surely, if these lies are so rampant, there should be ample proof.
<snip>
I wish to see some proof, and don't take this as sarcasm, I have seen your previous posts, you reply clinically, with facts backing your case. It's just surprising that you didn't have them here, which is why I really must ask, since I have seen on proof of these lies.

As I have stated already, I cannot and I will not post confidential material here. I have already taken an example. Other lies that have been posted include claims that "moderators have abused their powers" at present or in the past and referral to moderator abuses that have never occurred. Now deleted lies that have been posted include accusations of specific acts that has not occurred, including finger pointing at specific people who were not involved. If you had performed a search of the events mentioned (the public events, not moderator events) you would easily have identified them as lies.

Ravager and DJ Venom, if you have further complaints I can only recommend you to take them to Buck. Many people here demand answers, but nobody have even questioned how Lestat got the confidential information from the Moderator Forum. If you consider that, I think many things will clear up.

[Ravager]

Ravager and DJ Venom, if you have further complaints I can only recommend you to take them to Buck. Many people here demand answers, but nobody have even questioned how Lestat got the confidential information from the Moderator Forum. If you consider that, I think many things will clear up.

And take away the debate here from the very members I'm not distanced enough from? Now why would I want to do that...

Although I think I will talk to Buck about your behaviour towards me and others.

[Vicsun]

And take away the information from the very members I'm not distanced enough from? Now why would I want to do that...

Although I think I will talk to Buck about your behaviour towards me and others.

Hey, are you still wondering why you got demodded?