Potent Potables or just plain Mouthwash?

bariumdose · Post by **bariumdose** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:27 pm

I must be playing a game with a wicked random item generator. I'm finding a lot of potions and oils but not as many killer weapons with lasting magical effects. Anyway, I'm not here to B&M. But I started thinking about my ever-expanding collection of potions and wondered what other players had to say as to which potions are more useful than others.

I, off the top of my head, don't find the following potions all that useful:

Potion of Infravision (unless you have an all-human party)

Potion of Genius (unless you're playing a species whose INT is maxed out at under 18, you can always pump up your INT to the max of 18 at character creation, and I've not yet encountered any enemy who can cast a spell that turns you into a moron.)

Potion of Insight (same reason as in Potion of Genius)
Potion of Agility (analgous reason as for the Potion of Genius)

Any other candidates for the potion trash bin?

Aerich · Post by **Aerich** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:59 pm

Fortitude, for same reason as Genius and Agility - however, if you aren't powergaming, all three are darned helpful.

Strength - these can be sold because they just take you to 18 Str - +1 to hit, +3 to damage, big whoop-de-do. Any warriors probably are better than that, and you get giant strength potions in the next chapter which are a lot better.

The electrical resistance ones that give 50% electrical resistance. There's ones that give 100% resistance, and very little uses lightning anyway (really only one spot in the game aside from random spellcaster usage).

When I think of some more, I'll post them.

Philos · Post by **Philos** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:35 pm

Concur on Ifravision

I agree, THE bottom 2 have to be (IMHO) potion of infravision and potion of insight (enhance wisdom). Every area of IWD is lit so who needs infravision. The insight potion only lasts 6 hours so won't buff cleric/druid for any increase in spells taken and there are no saves directly tied to wisdom in IWD I am aware of (Insight is VERY useful in BG2 for mages though).

I disagree about potion of genius however. Even a mage with 18 intelligence has a 15% chance of failing when copying a spell to their spellbook. Using the potion of genius bumps their Int to 23 (I think) and lowers that chance to 1 or 2%. Unless you have your game set on easy, which disables the chance of spell copying failure, that is a pretty significant help. On my first run through I had a mage (with 18 int) blow copying a fairly high level spell which you usually only find one copy of (don't remember which one now). From that point on I save scrolls and copy a bunch at once after taking a potion of genius. Haven't lost one since in three or four subsequent run throughs.
I am not sure of this next reason for IWD, but it is true in BG2 and so it might be true here. The potion of genius also allows you to copy more spells to your spellbook than the limit normally allowed by your intelligence. Both games use 2nd edition rules and an 18 intelligence is limited to something like 17/18 spells known per level. That is still a lot but potion of genius lets exceed it.

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:40 pm

[QUOTE=Philos]
I disagree about potion of genius however.[/QUOTE]

thats true as i have used genius to memorise spells before, although you can also get around this by quick saving before memorising them and reloading if it fails. its cheating a little though lol

Aerich · Post by **Aerich** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:21 pm

The in-game advantage of potions of genius is minimal. Yes, you can improve your chance to learn spell, but quicksave is at least as effective, as mentioned above. The only real advantage is going beyond the "spells known" limits of your intelligence - however, I believe only the lvl 2 spells pose a difficulty in that respect because of their number, and reasonable scroll-sharing between two arcane casters removes that problem in any event.

Absolutely agree with those slagging infravision. It's worthless as both potion and spell. Mine go right into the sale pile.

There's also a couple of strange potions toward the end of the game that temporarily bump certain stats up to max while reducing others to minimum. No point to using them, IMO, and you can get decent cash from selling them.

Philos · Post by **Philos** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:01 pm

Potions

Oh yeah forgot about those,

I think one is called the "Red" potion or something like that. Raises Int to 25 and drops strength to 3. Yep, great for the sell pile, & definitely should be near the top of the useless list.
Hadn't done the spell count per level and wasn't sure if IWD incorporated it.
Very true about using quick save. I try to use reload sparingly and play it as a bit of a purest. If I goon something up, oh well. So I like to use the potion. Just a matter of style. Where I do use reloading on ocassion is for really bad faux pas (usually by the computer) like telling the party to go to a certain point only to find out the computer sent someone another direction (because that route/path wasn't congested) and they trip a trap or are singlehandedly facing a dozen bad guys with the rest of the party halfway across the screen. Really hate that feature of the game engine.

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:27 pm

[QUOTE=Philos]Really hate that feature of the game engine.[/QUOTE]

thats the only thing i really dislike about games like bg, bg2, iwd and iwd2

Aerich · Post by **Aerich** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:30 am

Agreed. You have to babysit the pathfinding if you're using a full party. It's not so bad using four characters or less.

Philos · Post by **Philos** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:18 am

Mr_sir,

your quote: "thats the only thing i really dislike about games like bg, bg2, iwd and iwd2"

Same for me, I really do like the Infinity Engine. This is more a nuisance than a major flaw. But you're sure right Aerich, I really do have to "baby-sit" them. I'll probably get brave and try a party of 4 or maybe even a duo one of these days.
But I didn't mean to get this thread off topic so getting back to potions. I also like to use the fortitude potion for an elf f/mu combo or any elf. Elves are limited to a natural 17 con so this potion is a big help for one of the "big" fights where a few extra hps can be helpful. Also I usually don't have enough stats to bump everything on a combo character so potions like fortitude, agility, and strength tend to be handy (to me) for those characters. I also like to use strength to turn my mage and/or cleric into "pack mules" when we are leaving with a huge pile of loot and a merchant is nearby, like the Hand or Lower Dorn. Don't have to worry so much about encumbrance that way. Speaking of strength potions, isn't there a sling that applies strength bonus (or am I thinking BG2) so having a cleric use a strength potion would be helpful.

bariumdose · Post by **bariumdose** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:31 am

Hey, thank you everyone for the insightful comments on my original post on useless/useful potions. I'll definitely try using the potion of genius when I have a bunch of spells to copy into the magic book. I don't really like cheating with the quicksave either.

I think all missile weapons (e.g. slings) apply the strength bonus on the damage roll, whether or not they are magicked.

[QUOTE=Philos]Speaking of strength potions, isn't there a sling that applies strength bonus (or am I thinking BG2) so having a cleric use a strength potion would be helpful.[/QUOTE]

Aerich · Post by **Aerich** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:23 pm

correct, bd.

Slings and (I think) all thrown weapons apply the strength bonus to damage. Bows and crossbows do not.

One more potion-specific tip...

This works best for fighter/clerics and paladins because of the extra attacks -you can turn them into melee beasts. When you cast Draw Upon Holy Might (+1 to Str, Dex, and Con per 3 levels for one turn), the bonus stat points are added onto your already-modified stat score. Translation: if you bump up your stats with potions of giant strength, agility and/or fortitude, or use spells for those purposes (Strength, Cat's Grace), Draw Upon Holy Might uses your potion-enhanced stat score as the base, not your true base score. 25 Str gives you +7 to hit and +14 to damage.

This was changed for IWD2, so enjoy it here...

bariumdose · Post by **bariumdose** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:43 am

[QUOTE=Aerich]correct, bd.

Slings and (I think) all thrown weapons apply the strength bonus to damage. Bows and crossbows do not.

One more potion-specific tip...

This works best for fighter/clerics and paladins because of the extra attacks -you can turn them into melee beasts. When you cast Draw Upon Holy Might (+1 to Str, Dex, and Con per 3 levels for one turn), the bonus stat points are added onto your already-modified stat score. Translation: if you bump up your stats with potions of giant strength, agility and/or fortitude, or use spells for those purposes (Strength, Cat's Grace), Draw Upon Holy Might uses your potion-enhanced stat score as the base, not your true base score. 25 Str gives you +7 to hit and +14 to damage.

This was changed for IWD2, so enjoy it here...[/QUOTE]

Holy crap! Thanks for the tip! Definitely would have been useful during the Yxunomei battle. I was so happy to stake that bitch!

Philos · Post by **Philos** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 8:25 pm

Interesting Tips about Holy Might

Man, I'll have to try that tip about Draw upon Holy Might with my Paladin. Great idea and would be a big help in the mid level game. I've taken a break from IWD 1 for a bit but this is getting my mind back in gear for it.

BD, I sure understand your feeling about Yxunomei

IMHO, I think it is the best balanceed fight in IWD (and my favorite) as she and her crew are really tough but can be beaten, your party is "just" starting to get to a point where they are pretty dangerous themselves. So all in all, well balanced at least the first time you fight it, in later run throughs knowing what's coming makes it easier to better prepare. I had no idea what that irritating little girl really was, boy did I get a surprise when she morphed. But I beat her that first time and didn't lose anyone in a pretty rolicking touch and go fight. So it is my favorite.

Philos · Post by **Philos** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 12:21 pm

New Discovery

I bumped this old thread because I just discovered something new last night regarding a couple of the potions.

While I knew the Potion of Genius raised a mage's chance to learn a spell, I forgot that it also increases the user's "lore" rating and improves their chance to identify an unidentified magic item. I knew that in the back of my mind but forgot about that.

The BIG discovery last night was that a character's lore rating is also affected by their Wisdom ability score. Previously, I thought it was based just on Intelligence and level.

I have been trying 2 different 4 member parties. Neither has someone with a really good lore rating. With the first party, I spent a day after doing the Vale just for my mage to memorize identify spells and ID the items I found. I had the mage use the Potion of Genius and that helped "some." With my second party I noticed that my Cleric/Ranger (Int 9, Wis 18) had a better lore rating (4) than my Fighter/Mage (Int 17, Wis 6) whose lore was (0). That got me to thinking. I had found a Potion of Perception in Kresslelack tomb. So I saved the game and tried an experiment. I gave my mage a Potion of Genius and her lore rose to (7) as her Int was now 21 (but Wis was still the normal 6). Then I gave her the Potion of Perception right after that, her lore skyrocketed from (7) to (47 or 49) as her wisdom was bumped from 6 to 18. I reloaded and tried just the Potion of Perception and her lore went from (0) to (39). Her Int was still the normal 17 and Wis was bumped to 18. Huge difference, and with a lore of 49 she could identify almost every item (around 2 dozen) I had found in the Vale and not yet used "Identify" on. Only a couple of exceptions.

So there is definitely a good use for the Potion of Perception. I won't be quite so quick to dump them in the sell pile now.
Likewise, I will now try to keep the non-requisite stats for my mage, cleric, or thief, as high as I can to help with identrifying things. I don't do the running a stat down to 3 in order to bump the others up anyway (I would not do that in a PnP D&D game as a character like that would be practically unplayable, so I won't in a CRPG). This experiment made me realize that running a mage's wisdom down to 3 does have an unexpected downside. One party member should have both a good (or at least decent) Int AND Wis stat so they can ID new magic items without using the Identify spell.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:56 am

I first thougt you were joking :laugh: since the tables how lore is affected by intelligence and wisdom are at the end of my manual.
But maybe there exist other versions without proper manual.

If you search the web you can find the tables on BG sites or a proper IWD manual in pdf form.

Warriors or priests aren't great for identifying since they gain only 1 lore per level, mages and thieves gain 3 and bards 10.
So even a bard with 3 wis can identify most items at level 5.
If you don't have a bard give 10 wis to your mage or both at least 10 int and wis to your thief.
Most items require 30 lore to get identified.

Philos · Post by **Philos** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:24 am

Yep That Would Be Me

I purchased the "complete" IWD pack :laugh:
It did have a paper copy of the IWD 2 manual but not for IWD1. It is the old "out of sight, out of mind" maxim in effect here. Reading the .pdf versions is a pain (can only view one or two pages at a time) so I easily forget about them being there. I use Adobe at work (full version and not the reader) and I find myself have to print out a lot of stuff. But I guess I should get off my lazy posterior and print it out, but for something I might use once a year it just seems like a waste of paper. Thanks for the reality check kmonster, with that & a cup of coffee I'm good for the day now.