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Weird problem at the Mission

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Nitfol
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Weird problem at the Mission

Post by Nitfol »

Weird problem at the Confession

[ Of course, the name of the club is the *Confession*, not the Mission - I guess
I was confusing it with Jennifer Brown's "Tuesday Afternoon" :-) . ]

I've taken care of Venus' problem with the Russians - but when I go back
to the Confession to tell Venus about it the place is deserted. The weird thing
is that there's music and crowd noises, but not a single person. Above all,
Venus herself is missing.

I tried to go into Venus' office to see if she was hiding there - but the part of the catwalk that's just outside the door is missing, so I keep falling down into the choir instead.

I've installed the official patch and the unofficial patch v. 2.8, but not v 2.9.

Is this a known problem?
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Post by Anaximander »

That's one I haven't seen. Did you start playing the game, and then install the unofficial patch afterward? Each time you install one of the unofficial patches, you have to start a new game. Otherwise, strange things happen.

If that's not the case, my first suggestion is to reload a previous save game and try it again.
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Post by Nitfol »

I meant at the Confession, of course...
Anaximander wrote:That's one I haven't seen. Did you start playing the game, and then install the unofficial patch afterward? Each time you install one of the unofficial patches, you have to start a new game. Otherwise, strange things happen.

If that's not the case, my first suggestion is to reload a previous save game and try it again.
I'm pretty sure I started a new game after installing the patch, but, dammit, I don't quite remember if I possibly played through the initial courtroom sequence first... Restarting the game doesn't really feel like an option now that I've invested something like 20 hours in it. And I haven't seen any other problems (apart from the video problems I wrote about earlier, but that was a device driver problem).

Anyway, the problem appears in all save games after a certain point. Everything worked OK until I had
Spoiler
killed off the Russians in the parking lot, gone back to the club to talk to Venus, and gotten my new assignment. I also persuaded that whiny ghoul-girl to go out into the alley (but I couldn't really face murdering her in cold blood, so I just left her there). Then I left and visited the derelict ship, hunted plague-bearers and went looking for Dr. Grout. [end spoiler]

Somewhere after the point where I left the Confession to do those other things the problem appears. I could go back and check save files if you think that will help.

One thing strikes me: The walkthru says that
Spoiler
I normally won't get Venus' quest until after I've completed the Traffik quest. But I haven't done that quest yet - apparently I had enough social skills to persuade Venus to trust me anyway. [end spoiler] Could the problem be related to my doing things out of sequence in that way?
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Post by Acleacius »

No you can do Venus first, its just that Larry will recommend your to Venus if you do Larry first.
Bummer about your game, I always make a Hard save as I enter each city and never save over it.
I have never heard of this problem either and I have tested almost every Unoffical patch since the game was released.
You could try installing 2.9 if nothing else seems to work, I mean it cant get any worse right?
Unless your plannig to just skip that, you could just give yourself some cash and a point of xp [think thats all you get from her 1xp, 2xp at the most]
Then you can give yourself $250 cash after each Main Quest you finish, but you only get $250 once each for Hollywood and Chinatown, if you trying to be strict. otherwise just give yourself $2000 if you only want to do it once.

It does sound like wired problems you can get by installing another Unofficial patch and using a save from an older Unofficial patch.
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Post by Nitfol »

Acleacius wrote:I always make a Hard save as I enter each city and never save over it.
I've kept my earlier save files as well, but going back to before the problem appeared would mean that I had to re-do a lot of hard stuff (se my earlier post) and I'm not sure it's worth that. Am I correct in that I'm "just" missing some cash this way?
Acleacius wrote: You could try installing 2.9 if nothing else seems to work, I mean it cant get any worse right?
Oh, it could get much worse since right now it only seems to be the Confession that doesn't work. If one of the critical quests stopped working, or, say, it was LaCroix who disappeared from his office, it would be catastrophic. So I'd rather not risk destroying anything else by installling new
patches right now.
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Post by Anaximander »

[quote="Acleacius]No you can do Venus first"]

With one exception. Venus will not speak to a Nosferatu character unless you have a referral from Larry.

[quote="Nitfol]I couldn't really face murdering her in cold blood[/quote"]

Unfortunately, since you've talked her into that alley, you have no other alternative now. The only way to complete the quest and uphold the Masquerade is to kill her. Just make sure no one sees you.

Getting back to your main problem, I still think you should try starting a new game first and see if you experience this problem again when you get there. If you skip all the side quests in Santa Monica, you can get back Downtown pretty quickly. Then you can ignore everything except Venus and her quests and see what happens.

If it does, try backing up your SAVE folder then compeltely uninstalling and reinstalling the game.

If all this sounds like too much trouble, then you can do as Acleacius says and just give yourself apoint of xp and $200. That's all you get from Venus for killing Boris and his goons in the Empire Hotel. However, if the problem with the Confession persists beyond this point, you'll be missing out on a steady source of revenue.
".... for I had seen the Human face of the Vampires, and now I beheld the monstrousness of these Men..."
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Post by Nitfol »

Anaximander wrote: Unfortunately, since you've talked her into that alley, you have no other alternative now. The only way to complete the quest and uphold the Masquerade is to kill her. Just make sure no one sees you.
I managed to do it without being seen, but I'm not sure it was worth losing two humanity points (I'm playing a Toreador) just to gain two measly XP.
Anaximander wrote: Getting back to your main problem, I still think you should try starting a new game first and see if you experience this problem again when you get there. If you skip all the side quests in Santa Monica, you can get back Downtown pretty quickly. Then you can ignore everything except Venus and her quests and see what happens.

If it does, try backing up your SAVE folder then compeltely uninstalling and reinstalling the game.
Even though replaying a game like that is fairly quick, I still find it awful drudgework and no fun at all. And suppose the problem doesn't reappear - then I'd still have to redo all the subquests, wouldn't I?

Do you think it may help just to uninstall and reinstall? Or could it be that my savefile is corrupt, so that I really have to replay the entire game?
Anaximander wrote: If all this sounds like too much trouble, then you can do as Acleacius says and just give yourself apoint of xp and $200. That's all you get from Venus for killing Boris and his goons in the Empire Hotel. However, if the problem with the Confession persists beyond this point, you'll be missing out on a steady source of revenue.
Just how do I give myself xp and money? By using the Console? Is there any documentation on how to use the Console?
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Post by Anaximander »

Yes, you'd use the console. There's a detailed explanation of how to get it working [url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/vampire-tm-bloodlines-47/irritation-ensues-spoilers-kinda-72288-p2.html"]here[/url]. You can also use it to restore those humanity points you lost.

Here are the relevant commands:

vstats give <stat> <number>

You can use that to restore your humanity by entering vstats give humanity 2

giftxp x, where x is the number of xp points you want. Note that it overwrites any current xp you already have. If you have 10 xp and you enter giftxp 5, you will end up with 5 xp not 15.

I can't seem to find a command to give yourself money, but I'll keep poking around. There's got to be a way.
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Post by Acleacius »

Also remember with Patty you never need to get her outside, just tell her you know Kent and he is in SanDiego.
She will leave town and you will get a Redemtption point for upholding the Masqurade, quest complete, xp and no Humanity loss. :)
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Post by Anaximander »

Acleacius wrote:Also remember with Patty you never need to get her outside, just tell her you know Kent and he is in SanDiego.
She will leave town and you will get a Redemtption point for upholding the Masqurade, quest complete, xp and no Humanity loss. :)
Arguably the best option for dealing with Patty. Requires a persuasion feat of 5.
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Post by Nitfol »

Anaximander wrote:Yes, you'd use the console. There's a detailed explanation of how to get it working [url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/vampire-tm-bloodlines-47/irritation-ensues-spoilers-kinda-72288-p2.html"]here[/url]. You can also use it to restore those humanity points you lost.

Here are the relevant commands:

vstats give <stat> <number>

You can use that to restore your humanity by entering vstats give humanity 2

giftxp x, where x is the number of xp points you want. Note that it overwrites any current xp you already have. If you have 10 xp and you enter giftxp 5, you will end up with 5 xp not 15.

I can't seem to find a command to give yourself money, but I'll keep poking around. There's got to be a way.
Thanks!

Are the commands you can use in the Console documented somewhere?

(For the record, I'm not going to use the Cosnole to give me back my humainty points - killing Patty was my decision and I'll have to take the consequences. Working around a game bug is a different thing.)
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Post by Nitfol »

Acleacius wrote:Also remember with Patty you never need to get her outside, just tell her you know Kent and he is in SanDiego.
She will leave town and you will get a Redemtption point for upholding the Masqurade, quest complete, xp and no Humanity loss. :)
Unfortuantely, my persuasion wasn't high enough when I talked to her. :(
It's a bit sad that once you've lured her into the alley, you can't even talk to her. I think that with enough persusasion, you should be able to tell her, "No, sorry, I was mistaken, Kent has left for San Diego".
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Post by Anaximander »

[quote="Nitfol]Are the commands you can use in the Console documented somewhere?[/quote]

In the console itself. Type in cmdlist to see a list of all console commands. The description of what they do is very brief however"]n[/i] - gives n xp points
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Post by Jhereg »

Acleacius wrote:Also remember with Patty you never need to get her outside, just tell her you know Kent and he is in SanDiego.
She will leave town and you will get a Redemtption point for upholding the Masqurade, quest complete, xp and no Humanity loss. :)
While I get that technically, this is a possibility, what are you going to do? Foist a loud-mouth ghoul off on the S.D. kindred? Patty is going to die sooner or later, just like Julius did. It's a matter of where, when, and by whose hand.
"No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style." Steven K.Z. Brust, "Jhereg", ISBN 0-441-38553-2, Chapter 17, prologue.
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Post by Nitfol »

Jhereg wrote:While I get that technically, this is a possibility, what are you going to do? Foist a loud-mouth ghoul off on the S.D. kindred? Patty is going to die sooner or later, just like Julius did. It's a matter of where, when, and by whose hand.
But you're not sending her to a certain death. You're probably giving her more time by sending her away. Perhaps she'll even manage to survive.

Another way of seeing it is that it's not the morality of what you're doing that lowers your humanity, but the very act of killing a defenseless girl in cold blood. Sending her off to a bleak fate in S.D. (and giving the S.D. kindred a whole lot of trouble) may not exactly be taking the moral high grounds (but hey, you're not playing some lawful-good D&D paladin) but it's not as brutal.
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Post by Acleacius »

Jhereg
" just like Julius did"

What are you talking about, some of us didn't kill Julius and if Patty goes to SD not knowing whom to ask about Kent?
Remember if Vamps lose their Blood they lose thier powers, right?
She won't be able to tell a Nerd from a Vamp and I have no idea hw this will get her kill [except for being stupid] she can't be a threat if she can't expose the Masqurade.

Reguarding Julius he has to have know where Rosa, E, Lilly and Copper went he was just waiting for Hatter.

They maybe Thinbloods but that doesn't mean they are stupid, if Julius didn't know and you show compassion by letting him go, you make clear he should never do that again or he will be killed
He cearly understood and did not look or seem anxious to die or try it again.
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Post by Jhereg »

Acleacius wrote:Jhereg
" just like Julius did"

What are you talking about, some of us didn't kill Julius and if Patty goes to SD not knowing whom to ask about Kent?
Remember if Vamps lose their Blood they lose thier powers, right?
She won't be able to tell a Nerd from a Vamp and I have no idea hw this will get her kill [except for being stupid] she can't be a threat if she can't expose the Masqurade.

Reguarding Julius he has to have know where Rosa, E, Lilly and Copper went he was just waiting for Hatter.

They maybe Thinbloods but that doesn't mean they are stupid, if Julius didn't know and you show compassion by letting him go, you make clear he should never do that again or he will be killed
He cearly understood and did not look or seem anxious to die or try it again.
Patty's a ghoul - she can tell who's a vampire and who isn't a vampire, remember? Knox picked you out instantly, and you hadn't been a vampire for even a whole night at that point. The ability to tell who is and isn't a vampire isn't a 'power'. Ghouls know that vampires exist - that's why they can spot them, and why the Masquerade is even necessary. Patty picks you right out and how long at that point has it been since she's had a fix? It certainly was long enough to get Skelter mad enough to want her dead. And Skelter's an Anarch - he doesn't even like the Cam, but he sees the necessity of the Masquerade.

Have you read any of the cut-scene backgrounders? In the middle-ages vampires were nearly wiped out, not by humans who knew of their existence - just by ones that believed in their existance. That's why the Masquerade is mainly concerned with making humans believe that Vampires don't exist - that way nobody is looking for them.

I mean, heck, I know that ghosts exist, because I've seen them, and I have the intellectual honesty to not lie to myself about what I've seen with my own eyes. I know they're there, and I can see them. Most people, if they don't believe ghosts exist, even if they do see one, will talk themselves into not thinking that they saw what they saw. They'll chalk it up as a dream, a hallucination bought on by stress, a trick of the light - anything but a ghost. As many as I've seen, I'd bet almost everybody has seen a ghost at some time or another. How many actually believe in them? Almost nobody. I went with an ex to visit his mother's grave, and he walked straight through one - didn't even blink. People won't see what they don't want to see. That's the whole trick to being invisible.

Patty would just hunt down the S.D. kindred and start bugging them about Kent. Sooner or later, she'd talk too much, and they'd have to take her out. Patty's dead meat. She's some Vampire's lunch. If you send her away, you're merely abrogating your responsibility and foisting the task off on somebody else. There is no compassion in not killing somebody and asking somebody else to do it for you. That's just the basest form of cowardice.

Julius, now - that's a different story entirely. He is a Vampire. If he'd convinced Hatter, and Hatter in turn managed to convince others...Julius deserves to die. I don't feel the slightest compassion for him, or even the desire for it. He had a sire - he must have had at least a reasonable understanding of the more important rules. He broke them. Whether from self-pity, or greed, or whatever. He at least attempted to betray the Kindred, and he's toast. Or, more accurately, ashes.
"No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style." Steven K.Z. Brust, "Jhereg", ISBN 0-441-38553-2, Chapter 17, prologue.
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Post by Acleacius »

As I mentioned, I believe they loose the power as the blodd wains, I could be wrong.

You have no idea whether she would have to take a bus, hitch or how long its been since she had her Blood fix.

"it certainly was long enough to get Skelter mad enough to want her dead."
I don't remember Skelter specificly saying to kill her, though I am using the Malk if that matters.

" I know that ghosts exist, because I've seen them,"
Errr you mean in the game, right? :confused:
Edit
Nm, I see you really think their are ghost in RL as I finished reading your post, .
I really don't know what to say. :speech:

"Patty's dead meat. She's some Vampire's lunch."
In your version of the game, it sounds like, yes.

"He is a Vampire. If he'd convinced Hatter, and Hatter in turn managed to convince others...Julius deserves to die."
Uh, huh yeah, sure he does. :rolleyes:
If he had convinced, gezzz.
What about if the person that Sired him would have told him Jack or Sh*t about what to do or what not to do?

Nothing like being able to judge another person's right to live or die with no responsibleity for the attitude or accuracy, huh. :rolleyes:
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Post by Jhereg »

Acleacius wrote:Nm, I see you really think their are ghost in RL as I finished reading your post, .
I really don't know what to say. :speech:


I did say most people won't' see what they don't want to see, right? You too, are one of "most people". I'm not judging you about it or anything. If you don't want to believe in ghosts, that's entirely your own business. I'm just telling you what I know - what I've seen with my own eyes. It's like hunting. I am personally opposed to killing things, but at the same time I'm not about to judge other people because they choose to do so. I eat meat. I'm not so foolish as to believe the meat I eat didn't come from an animal that was killed. OTOH, those animals are raised in abundance specifically for that purpose. Because of them, I have no need to kill anything.


Acleacius wrote:Nothing like being able to judge another person's right to live or die with no responsibleity for the attitude or accuracy, huh. :rolleyes:


You do get that your PC is a Vampire, right? A soulless predator? How many vampires do you kill in the course of that game that are no direct threat to you in any way, but just happen to be in your way? Or humans, for that matter? How's that for being able to judge a person's right to live or die? I get that Julius is a sympathetic character - begging for his unlife and all, but do you suppose that a vampire has sympathy?

I kill Julius, yes. And he actually did something wrong - I have proof. The confession of Hatter that Julius is his source. By Kindred law, he dies, and my PC is Kindred, and I was given the task. So he dies.

In real life, I would never think of killing anything. In the game, I'm a Vampire, and I behave as a Vampire would behave. Are you trying to moralize about the right to kill to a creature that feeds on these people you seem so concerned with? In the game, I'm a vampire. They are my cattle, and I am a ruthless, but tightly controlled and responsible predator. Whether or not they live or die is not my concern. My concerns are:

A) Avoiding Frenzy
B) Keeping fed
C) Protecting the Masquerade

In that order. Full stop. Everything else is incidental, and just gets me through the game.

I presume that you are attempting to play a Nick Knight, or an Angel, or a latter-day Spike. A 'good' vampire. Understand this, however. Nick Knight, Angel, and Spike all spent centuries as ruthless killing machines before, for some reason or another, they became 'good'. My character, a vampire for all of a few days, and imbued with all of the requisite hungers and predatory instincts, is not one of them after they've been killing for 500 years and develop a conscience. My character is a newly formed fledgeling doing what it is that a Vampire does - predate. Vampires kill things. Lions kill things. Crocodiles kill things. That's not 'good', or 'bad' - that's just what they do.
"No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style." Steven K.Z. Brust, "Jhereg", ISBN 0-441-38553-2, Chapter 17, prologue.
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Post by forgedude »

My playing style...

...largely depends on which clan I'm playing and what allegiance I'm going with. In the lastcouple missions, as a Camarilla/Strauss ending, I'll kill any Kuei Jin lackeys because they're potential competition/pita-es. But I'll try to do the last one and have succeeded without killing anyone except the Sheriff and the Gangrel attackers on the rooftop. Why? Because all these security folks are on Cam payroll and are potential assets. Now, if I were going for independant ending, I'd leave just enough survivors alive in each case to let it be known that I'm really, really p.o.ed at being set up and do not like being F%#ked over. As an Anarch, I'll avoid doing in Humans but will do in every vamp I can. Less competition means more feeding opportunities and more siring for our side. We are trying to take back L.A., so every cape less is a headache less.
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