Definitely doing something wrong here...

liorde · Post by **liorde** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:56 am

Hello all,
This is my first time playing BG2 SOA. Last CRPG games I played and finished were IWD 1 & 2, which were IMHO very very good. More combat oriented than BG2 but a bit less inspiring than BG2.
My question to you is regarding my characters and the way I am playing it. I have a party of 6 which consist of :
Jaheira
Korgan
Minsc
Valygar
Yoshimo
Fighter - (my custom made character)

I feel that I am doing something wrong here. Ever since my only mage NALIA was abducted by Rona'al Isae (something) I am almost completely without spells, except for Jaheira's healing and summoning spells...
I find every major battle VERY difficult, VERY.
For example, the Shaded Dragon in the Temple ruins, could not even touch him.
Same goes for the Frikrag Dragon in the windspear hills
The planar sphere, was a nightmare, I had a tough time with the halfling warriors, can you imagine? Lavok, I could not touch!! Only my summoned polar bears could get to him.
Tolgerias took me 3 days to get, with a "cheap" tactic of Yoshimo's set special snares and finally summoned animals.

So, please folks, where did I go wrong? I do not see myself being able to go onwards without any magic on board. I have no one who can cast even a magic missile.
What do you suggest??

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:06 am

What you are doing wrong is your "level".
Dragons are hard (when not cheating/cheesing them), very hard, and they are ment to be so. Afterall, if your average party of level 9-11 could just wack them down easily - there would be little epic about a huge red dragon

There is a reason why you do not have to fight Firekrag and Shadow Dragon when you meet them the first time

If fighting with a group of 6 and withouth "cheese", I'd properly not attempt a Dragon until my party was around L13-15 and then utilize a number of hard summons as well to back me up. And remember to buff with anti-fear, haste, potions etc.

Planar Sphere is also a hard area indeed and can cause issues for many lower level parties, especially with the halfling warriors/mages and Tolgaris, Lavrok and Demons.

Outside leveling, the issue could be with your weapons/equipment, for instance your weapons not having a high enough enchantment factor (THAC0 bonus) where some monsters for instance requier +2 or better to just be able to damage them.

As for magic, then you do not *need* magic abilities, but mages have many nice buffing and debuffing spells (a well places Chaos/Confusion can be very effective) which can make some fights easier. And the direct damage is also usefull (especially in SoA, less so in ToB expansion) however the harder monsters will have high magical resistances and some immunities making mages less usefull there.

So my main advice would just be to continue playing and avoid the monsters who are to hard for you to kill for a later time. So dont' feel to bad, most of us got kicked around a couple of times as well

liorde · Post by **liorde** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:42 am

Thanks for the reply.

What do you mean by "cheese"? Magic ..?
Not only the dragons were hard, practically every time I face someone who has cast spell immunity upon himself or protection from normal weapons I have a super tough time with him. and it seems like it is not suppose to be this way. Yoshimo is already lvl 13, that's high right? I think Jaheira is lvl 13 as well...
Oh well, life is tough.

Raven_Song · Post by **Raven_Song** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:01 am

Why did you not just go and recue Nalia?

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:41 am

liorde wrote:What do you mean by "cheese"? Magic ..?
Not only the dragons were hard, practically every time I face someone who has cast spell immunity upon himself or protection from normal weapons I have a super tough time with him. and it seems like it is not suppose to be this way. Yoshimo is already lvl 13, that's high right? I think Jaheira is lvl 13 as well...
Oh well, life is tough.

Cheese means exploiting "issues" with the AI and Bugs. Not excatly cheating, but in the proximity of it.

If somebody cast immunities on himself, then you must dispell them. Some buffs have counter-debuffs which can remove them. So actually, it is supposed to be difficult if you do nothing to counter the enemies.
Read up on the spell descriptions to gain an understanding of which spells counter which effects etc. It will help you very much.

As for Yoshimo's level, then if you look at the manuals, you'll notice that thieves level "faster" (meaning they requier lower amount of experience points per level indicator), so he's a bad benchmark and you should look at your parties overall experience level.

Bayle · Post by **Bayle** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:44 am

Every time i play through BG2, i have a certain order that i do quests and stuff. Obviously you can't always know what place that is the easiest for you, as its your first time.

SPOILER

I don't know what levels your characters are, and what chapter you are in. Did you get allies to help you find Imoen yet?
If you joined up with the Shadow Thieves, there are several quests you can do in the Docks district. On the first floor of the house with the mad cleric in front, you will find a person who starts a questline, also taking place in the docks district. His name is Renal Bloodscalp, and in that questline, that is fairly easy really, you will come across a NPC, that would do really good in your party. Especially when you need spellcasters.

SPOILER END

Dragons are really hard to beat, thats no secret, and they should be. Also spellcasters would help you a great deal, to dispell them, lower their resistances or in other ways help your melee players.
Also, a good thing to do in the beginning of a game, is to complete alot of quests in Athkatla, before moving outside of the city. But of course, those dungeons that you will face is most fun when you can't just run down every monster you come across. Strategy and luck is a big part of it.

wise grimwald · Post by **wise grimwald** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:15 am

Definitely doing something wrong here

As Raven song said, why not just go and rescue Nalia. You should have been given some hints on how to do so when she was abducted. Alternatively, you could get Aerie, a cleric/mage to join you. She can be found in a circus tent in Wakeen's Promenade. Another mage is Jan, an illusionist/thief in the government district. Personally, I would only have one of them in my party as both of them are a little light on constitution but otherwise OK.

liorde · Post by **liorde** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:04 am

Thank-you for all the replies.

Why I did not rescue Nalia, good question..! I got so many side quests since then that I never got to take care of it... yet. I really found it hard to track what I should do next and what should be done first.
I am in chapter 2 in the game. Thing is, that in the beginning of the game after I did some things in the Promenade, I left that location and I chose the Slums. A dialogue was immediately initiated with Gallen that said he wants 20K gold for help in rescuing Imoen. and then Chapter 2 started...
Anyway, I will see how things unravel onwards and see how it goes. Perhaps I will get Nalia back, then who should I take out of the party... another dillema.

Oh well, thanks for all the tips and advices

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:31 am

Remember, there are no bad party combinations. The game was deliberately made in such a way that you can complete it with any group of NPCs--just that some confrontations will be harder or easier. Use common sense, and as this appears to be your first run through, try to go for a balanced party of spellcasters and melee types.

Personally, I like having Aerie in a party. She's a challenge in the early levels, but very powerful towards the end. Jan has excellent dialog, as well as two different professions to rely upon; his specially prepared missiles are fun, too. but again, it's all up to you.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:33 pm

Playing without a cleric also makes the game far harder, the clerical buffs and protection spells are worth a lot, especially protection from evil 10" radius will make the game far easier.

Whom to kick out ?
Minsc is probably your weakest party member, Valgyar is only much better if you use his scouting and backstabbing.
Korgan gets big racial saving throw bonusses and can fight greatly, but he's evil. He won't stay in your party if your reputation reaches 19, so you have to kick him out if you want very high reputation which is great for shopping.

My recommendation: Replace one of those with Aerie (you find her in the circus tent). Her magic skill is sufficient until you get Imoen back and her clerical spells can help a lot.
I'd try to get Imoen back as soon as possible, you can do the remaining sidequests in chapter6.
If you don't like her there's of course no need to hurry. But in this case I'd replace Yoshimo with Jan. Yoshimo is a great replacement, especially since the XP reward you get for lockpicking and disarming is level-dependent but on the long run he's too weak.

Another option (instead of Aerie) is to trade 2 warriors for Anomen and Nalia if you can stand them.

Jedi_Sauraus · Post by **Jedi_Sauraus** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:45 pm

Um in his party I would'nt recommend getting rid of either Minsc or Korgan they are his two best tanks at this point, and later equip Korgan with Crom Fayer/axe of unyielding and Minsc with Flail of ages/Belm to see some utter carnage. Jaheira or Yoshi need to go or better yet Valgayar he is a sub-Minsc character with no personality. as general advice I reccomend the getting Keldorn; his high level dispel, true sight, and Carsomyr make him godly vs any spell caster (you can consider swapping Korgan for Keldorn both will make excellent tanks). also you need more mages in your team even if they are only Multi. As you've noticed playing without 1 is 100x more difficult. Having 2 is best haing 3 is even better but try not to go above 3 otherwise ypu'll be lacking in the tank department

SSoG · Post by **SSoG** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:36 pm

liorde wrote:Why I did not rescue Nalia, good question..! I got so many side quests since then that I never got to take care of it... yet. I really found it hard to track what I should do next and what should be done first.
I am in chapter 2 in the game. Thing is, that in the beginning of the game after I did some things in the Promenade, I left that location and I chose the Slums. A dialogue was immediately initiated with Gallen that said he wants 20K gold for help in rescuing Imoen. and then Chapter 2 started...
Anyway, I will see how things unravel onwards and see how it goes. Perhaps I will get Nalia back, then who should I take out of the party... another dillema.

Oh well, thanks for all the tips and advices

I know exactly what you mean. The first time you play through BG2, it's... well, it's pretty overwhelming, especially compared to the IWDs. The IWDs are all linear- the entire story is just one line, with no real side-quests of any note to get distracted on. BG2 is just some massive confusing cloud of sidequests and detours. Someone approaches you and asks you to do a quest, and as you're doing that quest three more people approach you and ask you to do quests, and as you're doing those quests three more people come and again ask you to do a quest. Pretty soon you forget which quests you're on, which quests need to be done, where you were going, why you were going there, and when it needs to be done by.

Here are two general hints to make your life a lot easier.

First off, check your journal. It's not perfect, but it keeps a pretty good record of where you are in every quest. You can sort entries by name or by date- I always sort by date, because some of the names are confusing or illogical, and sometimes one quest will have two entries under two different names. Sorting by date lets you go back and complete your oldest quest first, or your newest quest first, or whatever.

Second off, nothing is as pressing as everyone makes it sound. You get these dire-sounding quests, but there's really no time limit on 99% of them. You can feel free to take your sweet time doing whatever you want, whenever you want, in whatever order you want. The only quests that you really want to do in a timely manner are the ones involving members of your party. Usually, if a member of your party is getting impatient, they'll remind you what they want you to do. That's a good time to drop what you're doing and go do what your party member wants you to do. You can come back to what you were doing later, but if you wait too long, your friend WILL leave the party to do his or her quest alone. Korgan is a great example- when you hire him, he tells you he wants to find a book, and he tells you where to find it. If you don't do that quest within a reasonable timeframe, he'll remind you what he wants to do. If you keep on ignoring him, he'll leave (and take any gear you have on him with him- which is a very, very bad thing). The rest of your party members are more or less the same way- they all have a specific quest that they want you to do at one time or another, with the exception of Minsc, Imoen, and Yoshimo (although he'll nudge you in the direction of one quest), and they all get mad at you if you don't do it.

As for your party... it looks like you have a lot of Fighters, and not a lot of spellpower. Here are some characters who I am pretty fond of, as well as a few general warnings.

MINOR SPOILERS AHEAD (RELATING TO CHARACTER LOCATIONS):

My favorite party member is Edwin. He's a mage- not just any mage, though, he's *THE* mage. He gets a ridiculous 3 extra spells per level compared to Nalia or Imoen. He only gets two more per level than Jan, but he levels up faster than Jan. If you just want a spellcaster, Edwin's your man. With very few exceptions, if it's worth casting, he can cast it, and better than anyone else in the game at that. In fact, I never even bother making my main character a mage, because Edwin would still kick his butt. To find Edwin, go to the Docks and muck around in the Orange building at the top-left corner. That'll eventually trigger a chain of events that'll lead you to him.

If you want a true cleric as opposed to just a druid, there's Viconia, Aerie, or Anomen. They all have their pros and cons- Anomen is a phenominal tank, Aerie is a cleric/mage and gets a huge volume of spells, and Viconia is the best cleric of the bunch (and comes with 65% magical resistance to boot). Viconia is in the government district (you can't miss her), Aerie is in the circus tent at Waukeen's, and Anomen is in the Copper Coronet. Aerie and Viconia are also nice to have around, because they're romantic interests (so is Jaheira). Viconia is my favorite romance, but that's just personal preference talking. If you created a female character, grab Anomen, because he's the only romance option available to you.

If you want a sort of hybrid caster, there's Cernd (a shapeshifter druid), Jan (a thief/mage), or Haer'Dalis (a blade). None of them have ever blown my socks off as far as power goes, but Jan is probably the funniest party member, and has a ton of interactions, so if you just want to see him play pranks on all your party members, grab him- he's in the government district.

Last but not least, there's Keldorn, an inquisitor. He's got pretty poor stats, and he's sort of an annoying party member, and he really isn't a spellcaster at all... but he'll be able to cure what ails you. He has three things going for him. First, he's a tank. Second, he can instantly detect any invisible creatures or illusions at any time. Third, and most importantly... he can dispel pretty much anything in the game. Enemy mages casting a bunch of defensive spells? Good old Keldorn will strip them bare in seconds. He can be found in the temple district. Wander around until you get sent into the sewers on a quest, and you'll run into him there.

Personally, I think to make room for these guys, you're best off losing a tank or two. Between yourself (Fighter), Minsc (Ranger), Korgan (Berserker), and Valygar (Stalker), that's a lot of melee muscle. I generally run around with two true tanks, and one hybrid type (somebody like Anomen or Haer'Dalis who is like a mini-tank with spell capabilities), but others prefer anywhere between 1 to 4 tanks. The EASIEST way to beat the game would probably be 3 tanks, 1 thief-type (Jan, Yoshimo, Imoen), 1 Cleric-type, and 2 Mage-types. That's 7 different characters, so someone's going to have to pull double-duty (Jan and Imoen are both thieves and mages, Anomen and Jaheira are both tanks and clerics, Aerie is a cleric and a Mage, etc).

Oh, and one last thing- it's REALLY annoying to have any of the following character combinations. I'd really recommend avoiding them if possible, because they don't get along.

Korgan + Aerie
Edwin + Valygar, Minsc, or Keldorn
Viconia + Keldorn or Valygar

Korgan, Edwin, and Viconia are all evil. Aerie, Valygar, Minsc, and Keldorn are all good. Sometimes, good and evil don't mix. It's a shame, too, since Edwin, Korgan, and Viconia are three of the best NPCs in the game, in my opinion.

END SPOILERS

liorde · Post by **liorde** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:45 am

Thanks again.

I think I missed Viconia in this game. I saw her once and she was tighed up to a pole in the Government place I think. Next time I came was much later, and the people around her were already chanting stuff and she was burnt
to death. That surprised me actually, didn't see it coming...
I need make a switch of charaters pronto. I am now in the mind flayers area. For 3 hours I tried passing the second room to the west, but to no success. I tried oil of speed, chaotic commands, animal conjuration (Jaheira), nothing goes...

I am thinking of switching 2 chars...
I think I will pick up Keldorn (but where the heck is he now? He left the sewers but to where exactly?)
I am thinking of replacing either Valygar or Korgan. Valygar has dual weilding ability and he has some nice swords on him, and Korgann is great with axe, but brags a lot and gets on my nerves... hummm. what to do ??
I want Edwin, after the recommendations here, but till then should I take Jan..?

Besides all this, Jaheira is now cursed, and although I found her missing piece of hair, she is still in cursed mode. I tried resting, but no effect, still cursed. Did I miss something here..?
Once again, thanks for all the tips.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:05 am

liorde wrote:<snip>
Besides all this, Jaheira is now cursed, and although I found her missing piece of hair, she is still in cursed mode. I tried resting, but no effect, still cursed. Did I miss something here..?
<snip>

It takes a couple of times of rest (a days worth IIRC?) before the curse is removed entierly; after you found the hair piece.

Onkel Bob · Post by **Onkel Bob** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:25 am

Jedi_Sauraus wrote:...Valgayar he is a sub-Minsc character with no personality.

I so don't agree with the first part of this.

Stats: Minsc has better strength but Valygar wins in everything else. Strength is easily enhanced and the point goes to Valygar.

Special abilities: Minsc has the most useless rage in the game IME. All it has ever done for me is turn him yellow and set him loose on my mage. Valygar can backstab. Not only can he backstab but he has a fighters thac0. Clear victory to Valygar.

Armour: Minsc can use better armour than Valygar but only if you don't want to use his ability to sneak. Besides there are plenty of good armour that Valygar can use, his own for one, and he has higher dexterity. Call it a draw.

Spells: Valygar has higher wisdom allowing him to cast more and he has a few useful mage spells available as well. Point goes to Valygar.

Personality: I like Valygar but Minsc is more funny. On the other hand Minsc can be annoying at times. Still I give a slight edge to Minsc.

There you have it. If you have any idea what you're doing Valygar should be better at pretty much anything. But if you like Minsc then Minsc will win. At least he would for me. However I find all the NPC's interesting.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:04 am

Onkel Bob wrote:<snip>
Special abilities: Minsc has the most useless rage in the game IME. All it has ever done for me is turn him yellow and set him loose on my mage. Valygar can backstab. Not only can he backstab but he has a fighters thac0. Clear victory to Valygar.
<snip>

Misc's rage makes him a Demi-Lich eater, or rather - any Imprisonment casting mob eater

Onkel Bob · Post by **Onkel Bob** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:13 am

Xandax wrote:Misc's rage makes him a Demi-Lich eater, or rather - any Imprisonment casting mob eater

Are you sure about that? In my game Minsc will get imprisoned just fine rage or not.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:20 am

Onkel Bob wrote:Are you sure about that? In my game Minsc will get imprisoned just fine rage or not.

Had him chewing through a couple Demi-Liches in my current game.

Onkel Bob · Post by **Onkel Bob** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:25 am

I like Minsc but I just feel that this is the case:

Minsc: Good at taking and dealing damage. And, in cases where I can hide the rest of the party the hell away from him, I can use his rage.

Korgan: Good at taking and dealing damage. Has useful rage ability.

Keldorn: Good at taking and dealing damage. Mage killer.

Mazzy: Good at taking and dealing damage. Superb archer.

Valygar: Good at taking and dealing damage. Exellent scout. Can backstab weak targets.

So basically Minsc only has one thing to offer my parties. All the other tanks have something else. We can discuss who's better at the first part but all the ones I have mentioned does well enough.

Still I like to have him he's fun but he's less useful than just about any other tank in the game.

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:18 pm

So basically Minsc only has one thing to offer my parties.

Doesn't he get bonuses against an hereditary enemy, being a ranger?