On Chronic Character Creation Disorder.
On Chronic Character Creation Disorder.
It's a pun, yes, but usually it means a good thing. Meaning that a game has so much to offer that I keep getting good ideas for builds. For some reason though Neverwinter Nights 2 seems to have the opposite effect on me. I still get CCCD, but for a different reason. I don't keep creating new characters because I keep seeing opportunities for new ones, I keep creating them because they become rapidly less interesting as I advance. The killing stroke is usually some kind of additional pitfall my character has that only turns up later in the game; not enough charisma, terrible saving throws, a feat that just doesn't grow on me, take your pick.
I have a feeling though that this is not out of a personal preference. The game *should* have ample opportunity for any kind of playstyle I can come up with, but I just can't seem to find one that appeals enough to me to complete the game. It feels like I'm trying to play the game.. in a way that doesn't suit the game. I know that's a little vague, but I'm having a hard time understanding this myself. I just can't seem to finish the first chapter..
Voice your opinion and/or advice, please. I'd appreciate it.
I have a feeling though that this is not out of a personal preference. The game *should* have ample opportunity for any kind of playstyle I can come up with, but I just can't seem to find one that appeals enough to me to complete the game. It feels like I'm trying to play the game.. in a way that doesn't suit the game. I know that's a little vague, but I'm having a hard time understanding this myself. I just can't seem to finish the first chapter..
Voice your opinion and/or advice, please. I'd appreciate it.
[INDENT]'..tolerance when fog rolls in clouds unfold your selfless wings feathers that float from arabesque pillows I sold to be consumed by the snow white cold if only the plaster could hold withstand the flam[url="http://bit.ly/foT0XQ"]e[/url] then this fountain torch would know no shame and be outstripped only by the sun that burns with the glory and honor of your..'[/INDENT]
Same for me. I have created no less than 5 different builds involving each of the wizard and warlock classes so far. Not to mention, the other classes I have tried. Advice or suggestions? I dunno....my favorite part of RPG's is simply the character creation and then testing them out. Not the story, or the plot, or any of that. So, it's not truly a problem for me until I run out of builds to test.
"You can do whatever you want to me."
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
Hi, I recognize your problem an I suffer from it too, I *try* to play the game but I love to just sit in characer creation for hours pondering what the ultimate character would be. It has become incresingly prevalent for me to do this - maybe - I know i did reroll for full nights in bg2 so its maybe not new..
You would think that with the reroll function out of the way (thank god) you could spend more time playing the actual game, but its obviously not so
Right now I just keep going back between a fighter/weaponmaster build and paladin, ranger and sorcerer/eldricht knight. Thinking I have finally decided, just when I start the game I go like: Naaahh this is too much like a powergaming build, I should have more charisma with my fighter, or wisdom. But if I do it the other way around ill just flip out over how "default" or unexceptional my build is with only 16 str on a fighter for example. gahh!!
Im thinking either fighter weaponmaster starting with 18str, 13dex, 14con, 13int and 8wis/cha....... But oh noes! Think about how much better your char would be as a dwarf!! the extra resistances, bonus con, FREE kickass weaponfeat.... But the dwarf is just a rotund shaped joke with a beard, always sporting random bad combatinstigating behaviour, I cant play that seriously... No I need a strong goodlooking human man to be my character so I can feel strong and goodlooking in a platemail! Oh there is no end to this
You would think that with the reroll function out of the way (thank god) you could spend more time playing the actual game, but its obviously not so
Right now I just keep going back between a fighter/weaponmaster build and paladin, ranger and sorcerer/eldricht knight. Thinking I have finally decided, just when I start the game I go like: Naaahh this is too much like a powergaming build, I should have more charisma with my fighter, or wisdom. But if I do it the other way around ill just flip out over how "default" or unexceptional my build is with only 16 str on a fighter for example. gahh!!
Im thinking either fighter weaponmaster starting with 18str, 13dex, 14con, 13int and 8wis/cha....... But oh noes! Think about how much better your char would be as a dwarf!! the extra resistances, bonus con, FREE kickass weaponfeat.... But the dwarf is just a rotund shaped joke with a beard, always sporting random bad combatinstigating behaviour, I cant play that seriously... No I need a strong goodlooking human man to be my character so I can feel strong and goodlooking in a platemail! Oh there is no end to this
I think the problem is a flawed game. It's a great game imho, but about half way through it, alot of things only have one outcome, no matter what you do, and I find that rather unappealing.
Messing around with the toolset, I noticed a few conversations where you are given the option to persuade them via lie, bluff, diplomacy, etc, however, there are no success responses. You WILL fail. That also, is a flaw imo.
Messing around with the toolset, I noticed a few conversations where you are given the option to persuade them via lie, bluff, diplomacy, etc, however, there are no success responses. You WILL fail. That also, is a flaw imo.
Sigh, again. Tonight I tried to create an Aasimar warlock without charisma or dexterity, but with high wisdom so she would eventually become a terrific shapeshifter (4th invocation, not multiclass) with excellent fortitude and will saves. I finally found a use for the Aasimar as I wouldn't need to achieve the highest level, what with eventually having access to the (fixed) shapeshifting attributes. The only trade-off (or so I thought) would have been my lacking casting ability. But I don't need Charisma to open up higher spell levels (or so I figure), and charisma won't make the shapeshift form stronger anyway.
But then as I was playing realized I wasn't effectively using Intimidate because of my low charisma. Intimidate being a warlock's class skill, of course. That's a waste.
Back to the drawing board. This is getting too tiresome.
But then as I was playing realized I wasn't effectively using Intimidate because of my low charisma. Intimidate being a warlock's class skill, of course. That's a waste.
Back to the drawing board. This is getting too tiresome.
[INDENT]'..tolerance when fog rolls in clouds unfold your selfless wings feathers that float from arabesque pillows I sold to be consumed by the snow white cold if only the plaster could hold withstand the flam[url="http://bit.ly/foT0XQ"]e[/url] then this fountain torch would know no shame and be outstripped only by the sun that burns with the glory and honor of your..'[/INDENT]
Psst. Go for a halfling rogue/warlock. If you hit your targets within 30 feet with your blast from the right angle and in the proper situations, you should not only hit them with a ranged touch attack for magic damage, but do sneak attack damage as well! I found the patience in sneaking around constantly to be my biggest problem. Everyone died, I was just slow as all get out. I could charm my way through just about anything with the one Least Invocation that provides a +6 to Cha skills. It was fun. ^_^ For all of 5 hours.
"You can do whatever you want to me."
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
You mean that the game should be ripe for the taking for everyone. For the 18 str wizard as well as the 20 dex gnome paladin in full plate. I don't agree. If you choose a class and stick to it, do it, but see that there are things which you cannot solve, or have to think of another way of solving. I do not know what you miss. You have bad cha as a fighter, so what? Someone will attack you because of that? Great, you are a fighter, send them to hell...Tricky wrote:It's a pun, yes, but usually it means a good thing. Meaning that a game has so much to offer that I keep getting good ideas for builds. For some reason though Neverwinter Nights 2 seems to have the opposite effect on me. I still get CCCD, but for a different reason. I don't keep creating new characters because I keep seeing opportunities for new ones, I keep creating them because they become rapidly less interesting as I advance. The killing stroke is usually some kind of additional pitfall my character has that only turns up later in the game; not enough charisma, terrible saving throws, a feat that just doesn't grow on me, take your pick.
I have a feeling though that this is not out of a personal preference. The game *should* have ample opportunity for any kind of playstyle I can come up with, but I just can't seem to find one that appeals enough to me to complete the game. It feels like I'm trying to play the game.. in a way that doesn't suit the game. I know that's a little vague, but I'm having a hard time understanding this myself. I just can't seem to finish the first chapter..
Voice your opinion and/or advice, please. I'd appreciate it.
And there is the possibility of dual-classing. Yes, face it, you will be a jack of all trades.
Well, I suffer from re-start disorder myself. I've almost beaten the game with a Fighter/WeaponMaster/Beserker/Nine character wielding a greatsword/shiel, however I did not feel all that happy about him, so I'm restarting currently with a druid, a sorcerer, a warlock and a wizard - then needing to find out which to play most .... but perhaps I'll throw in a Ranger or Rogue as well
I have a very difficult time deciding my character
I have a very difficult time deciding my character
Insert signature here.
Well I finally think I might be getting somewhere. This night I re-rolled the Warlock pseudo shapeshifter I talked about. Human, Will 18 and Charisma 18. I'm not picking up any blast shapes, just invocation spells. She couldn't hit an ogre if it sat right on top of her reading a newspaper, but she has a foul temper and a mouth to go with it. Combat sucks, but I have something to look foward to.
I think I'll stop taking warlock levels after I get the first 4th invocation (word of changing). Should be around level 17, which means I might yet multiclass for three levels. Anything worth dabbling into that could benefit my monster form?
I think I'll stop taking warlock levels after I get the first 4th invocation (word of changing). Should be around level 17, which means I might yet multiclass for three levels. Anything worth dabbling into that could benefit my monster form?
[INDENT]'..tolerance when fog rolls in clouds unfold your selfless wings feathers that float from arabesque pillows I sold to be consumed by the snow white cold if only the plaster could hold withstand the flam[url="http://bit.ly/foT0XQ"]e[/url] then this fountain torch would know no shame and be outstripped only by the sun that burns with the glory and honor of your..'[/INDENT]
Seems like a waste of 16 levels to me personally. I cheated my way to a 20th level Warlock and picked that invocation you want. Nice adorable demon with high Str, Con and Dex, SR and regeneration with claws and teeth. However, if you went for a sorcerer or wizard, you could gain the Shapechange Spell, which I believe allows you to transform into a Balor or Red Dragon. It would allow you to also have blasting spells and buff spells as well.Tricky wrote:Well I finally think I might be getting somewhere. This night I re-rolled the Warlock pseudo shapeshifter I talked about. Human, Will 18 and Charisma 18. I'm not picking up any blast shapes, just invocation spells. She couldn't hit an ogre if it sat right on top of her reading a newspaper, but she has a foul temper and a mouth to go with it. Combat sucks, but I have something to look foward to.
I think I'll stop taking warlock levels after I get the first 4th invocation (word of changing). Should be around level 17, which means I might yet multiclass for three levels. Anything worth dabbling into that could benefit my monster form?
Picking a caster class simply for one spell/ability is a wretched waste if you need to blow 17 levels to get that one spell. To be brutally honest, no matter what you do with that build, I could do better with a warlock that is built differently, or a fighter, or a wizard. It will be hellish on you surviving the whole game to get up to 16th level when you get access to that invocation as well.
However, if you are truly set on doing this, I have a suggestion. Using the Leaps and Bounds and Dark Ones Luck before Word of Changing, the attribute and save bonuses stacked with the shape-change. I would suggest taking 3 levels of the following given this:
Monk: Fast Movement, free Cleave feat, Evasion, Wis Bonus to AC. Take these three first off for ease of use when playing. The AC bonus alone is worth it, rather than as your 17th level.
Rogue: Evasion and +2d6 Sneak attack might be worthwhile for you. Especially when trying to work out a way to survive with crappy stats through the game in all but Wis and Cha. With a crappy Dex, this is nearly worthless however.
Cleric: A few spells to heal yourself, armor feats so you can take Battle Caster feat and wear Mithril full plate later without caster failure. A 3rd level cleric with 18 Wis and the Healing Domain (special ability Empower Heal Spells, Cure Serious wounds as 2nd level spell) can cure quite a bit of damage if all of the spells are spent as Cure Light Wounds (1d8+Caster Level) and Cure Serious (3d8+Caster level) wounds on the spell list. You should get 4 1st level and 3 2nd level spells, meaning 4d8+12 x 1.5 HP {42 total on average} from 1st level spells and 9d8+9 x 1.5 {68 on average}. A total average of 110 HP with just 3 caster levels, 18 Wisdom and the Heal domain. This may very well be your best bet if you don't want to go monk.
Barbarian: 3d12 HP, +3 BAB to bring you to 4 attacks/rd by 20th level, Fast Movement, Rage bonuses and Uncanny Dodge.
"You can do whatever you want to me."
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
Well, I fear that taking the wizard/sorcerer route (which I would much prefer given that they get such a broader shapeshifting selection) will turn into powergaming even if I don't specialize in a school. By becoming a warlock that doesn't specialize in blast shapes I think I can keep up the challenge a little longer. And the anticipation should be bait enough for me to get really far in the game.. *for once*.
So I think in the end I'm doing this to make things more interesting, not easier. Three monk levels sound very good. The wisdom bonus on AC alone would make the demon form a tank, unless:
- d20srd.org: "You gain all extraordinary and supernatural abilities (both attacks and qualities) of the assumed form, but you lose your own supernatural abilities."
That might be the only drawback. I can't really tell from the site if this means I lose the wisdom bonus to AC in my monster form because:
- d20srd.org: "You keep all extraordinary special attacks and qualities derived from class levels, but you lose any from your normal form that are not derived from class levels."
But hey, if this will get me over that CCCD I'm a happy man.
So I think in the end I'm doing this to make things more interesting, not easier. Three monk levels sound very good. The wisdom bonus on AC alone would make the demon form a tank, unless:
- d20srd.org: "You gain all extraordinary and supernatural abilities (both attacks and qualities) of the assumed form, but you lose your own supernatural abilities."
That might be the only drawback. I can't really tell from the site if this means I lose the wisdom bonus to AC in my monster form because:
- d20srd.org: "You keep all extraordinary special attacks and qualities derived from class levels, but you lose any from your normal form that are not derived from class levels."
But hey, if this will get me over that CCCD I'm a happy man.
[INDENT]'..tolerance when fog rolls in clouds unfold your selfless wings feathers that float from arabesque pillows I sold to be consumed by the snow white cold if only the plaster could hold withstand the flam[url="http://bit.ly/foT0XQ"]e[/url] then this fountain torch would know no shame and be outstripped only by the sun that burns with the glory and honor of your..'[/INDENT]
You would keep your fast movement, evasion and Monk AC bonus in another form, those aren't supernatural abilities. They mean things like regeneration and such when they say that.
"You can do whatever you want to me."
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
I will have to post a screenshot with the final stats once I get around to it.
[INDENT]'..tolerance when fog rolls in clouds unfold your selfless wings feathers that float from arabesque pillows I sold to be consumed by the snow white cold if only the plaster could hold withstand the flam[url="http://bit.ly/foT0XQ"]e[/url] then this fountain torch would know no shame and be outstripped only by the sun that burns with the glory and honor of your..'[/INDENT]
Well it worked. As I have only been investing in Wisdom, I practically had to do every battle without my warlock. But now after more than a week it has finally started to pay off. I've become a tank, even the boss creatures can't seriously hurt me. It's very rewarding to be able to rip everything to shreds after so many next to impossible battles..
[url="http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o136/yunage/naturel.png?t=1164368285"]17 Warlock levels[/url]
[url="http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o136/yunage/alternative.png?t=1164368285"]16 warlock + 1 monk level[/url]
[url="http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o136/yunage/naturel.png?t=1164368285"]17 Warlock levels[/url]
[url="http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o136/yunage/alternative.png?t=1164368285"]16 warlock + 1 monk level[/url]
[INDENT]'..tolerance when fog rolls in clouds unfold your selfless wings feathers that float from arabesque pillows I sold to be consumed by the snow white cold if only the plaster could hold withstand the flam[url="http://bit.ly/foT0XQ"]e[/url] then this fountain torch would know no shame and be outstripped only by the sun that burns with the glory and honor of your..'[/INDENT]
- Fljotsdale
- Posts: 1640
- Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:07 pm
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I have CCCD as well. Never got beyond the first 2 or 3 quests in the city of Neverwinter so far, and often not even beyond Highcliff. There is always something I'm not quite happy with about my char - sometimes even something so silly as the name I chose...
Currently, I am running a Drow Warlock, and nearly gave up because I couldn't figure how to use her 'spells' and powers... but I think I have it figured now... just done the Graveyard and I'm in the middle of the Bandit Camp, just about to deal with the Headquarters - which was where I gave up last time with my Human Bard, because they all kept getting killed in no time flat, no matter how I played that room with the Wizard and the Boss. Didn't even have time to cast Sonic Blast or a Silence scroll... *sigh* It'll be interesting to see how my little Drow copes...
Currently, I am running a Drow Warlock, and nearly gave up because I couldn't figure how to use her 'spells' and powers... but I think I have it figured now... just done the Graveyard and I'm in the middle of the Bandit Camp, just about to deal with the Headquarters - which was where I gave up last time with my Human Bard, because they all kept getting killed in no time flat, no matter how I played that room with the Wizard and the Boss. Didn't even have time to cast Sonic Blast or a Silence scroll... *sigh* It'll be interesting to see how my little Drow copes...
Leonard Cohen :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8VwvO0e ... re=related
time for a change
"Dogs come when they're called. Cats take a message and get back to you."
time for a change
"Dogs come when they're called. Cats take a message and get back to you."
Tricky - that warlock build would (if the incantation of shapechanging ends) be in quite a big problem but as long as you can change into the demon form back you're almost instoppable - played the same build warlock+monk and dare say it does its magic... bah, i don't recall if it's true, but it seems to me that if you take 3 lvls of monk you also get ac bonus against range attacks and the flurry of blows with the demon form does wonders on the battlefield the further you go... bah! i say it is worth all that running away from battle that might happen before you can really interfere
The demon form doesn't have a flurry animation though, that was kind of a pity. She would simply stand next to an enemy while it got hit after hit.. sort of funny.
[INDENT]'..tolerance when fog rolls in clouds unfold your selfless wings feathers that float from arabesque pillows I sold to be consumed by the snow white cold if only the plaster could hold withstand the flam[url="http://bit.ly/foT0XQ"]e[/url] then this fountain torch would know no shame and be outstripped only by the sun that burns with the glory and honor of your..'[/INDENT]