Bard attributes

Faerun · Post by **Faerun** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:53 pm

I'v been playing BG games since the release of the first one but one thing I still don't understand is what attributes are important for a bard. More specifically, a blade.

I'm trying to create a blade character right now but have read a bunch of things, mostly on this forum, that have confused me. For instance, something about intelligence having no impact on spell casting ability...

Basically, I need help distributing my attribute points at character creation for my blade character.

Any help would be welcome and appreciated.

Onkel Bob · Post by **Onkel Bob** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:23 am

Go for as high a roll as possible. Here's my minimum stats:

18 dexterity for the armor class bonus.
16 constitution to get the highest amount of hit-points possible. Only fighters benefit from 17 or 18 con.
18 intelligence. Strictly speaking I'm not sure this is necesary. You may only need 15 in order to learn level 6 spells which is all they get, but it shouldn't be hard to get a roll that will let you boost int anyway.

High strength is nice but there are lots of ways to augment it so strictly speaking not necesary. I would prefer to have at least 14 so he can carry stuff even in the early game. If I can I'll boost charisma to 18 but since you already have 15 you can do without. Wisdom adds to lore, but, seriously, your lore will get high enough to identify anything eventually anyway.

Faerun · Post by **Faerun** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:17 pm

That's what I figured, thanks. Now I just want to know if low wisdom (10) will have an impact on roleplaying. But I made a seperate thread for that.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:26 pm

I soloed both games with a Blade. Wisdom does not give saving throw bonuses as intended, so the only reason's you'd put points in it is to get extra priest spells and getter better choices for the Wish spell.

I was an elf with stats being:

Str:3
Dex:19
Con:16
Int:18
Wis:15
Cha:18

I'm not much of a reroller as it's tedious and I generally like to stay with what I get.

Kipi · Post by **Kipi** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:34 pm

Onkel Bob wrote: 18 intelligence. Strictly speaking I'm not sure this is necesary. You may only need 15 in order to learn level 6 spells which is all they get, but it shouldn't be hard to get a roll that will let you boost int anyway.

Actually, to be able to cast level 6 spells you need intelligence of 16. The formula of what level you can cast is:
Intelligence + 10 = max level of spells your character is able to cast.

So, level 6 spells need int 16, level 4 needs 14 and so on...

Onkel Bob · Post by **Onkel Bob** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:39 pm

Kipi wrote:Actually, to be able to cast level 6 spells you need intelligence of 16. The formula of what level you can cast is:
Intelligence + 10 = max level of spells your character is able to cast.

So, level 6 spells need int 16, level 4 needs 14 and so on...

But you can cast level 9 spells with an intelligence og 18.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:03 pm

From the Black Isle games, that rule applies only to Icewind Dale II.

You can still cast all of the spells with a medium intelligence.

You just have to make sure that the attribute is not pathetically low.

Faerun · Post by **Faerun** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:54 pm

So let me get this straight then: Anything more than 16 in Intelligence and 16 in Constitution is a waste. Is that correct?

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:07 pm

For any non fighter class, more than 16 constitution is a waste.

I am not sure about the intelligence portion as you do seem to get extra spell slots.

Faerun · Post by **Faerun** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:47 pm

Okay, my final question is this:
Is there any reason at all to put points in wisdom for a blade? More specifically, does 12 as opposed to 10 wisdom make a difference? I am interested in roleplaying, so conversational options are important to me.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:32 pm

Now, I'm not sure about this, but I do think that there is either none or one encounter that checks Wisdom. In any case, if you want, you can boost it up with potions.

I tend to always start within minimal strength and high everything else, because I use Wisdom for the Wish spell, which comes in handy some times. You can just use the spell Strength up until you get a Strength increasing item. Enjoy the Blade, one of the most capable classes in the game. I managed to get my Blade to level 37 before I even left Chapter 2.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:31 pm

The Bard stronghold quest checks Intelligence and Charisma (the higher, the better). Intelligence affects how many spells you can put in your spellbook and it affects the chance you might fail to scribe a spell, but it does not affect the number of spells you can memorize. There's only one dialogue I can think of where Wisdom is checked, but you can have someone besides your main character do the talking. There are several dialogues that check Charisma, so Charisma is probably more important than Wisdom.

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:10 am

I'd take 18 int, since int also affects how many spells of each level you can learn. I guess you'll want to learn more than 11 spells per level. You can drink potions which raise int temporary to get able to scribe all spells, but it's quite annoying (and expensive) having to drink potions when you want to scribe a new spell.

I'd also take 18 cha. High charisma is nice not only for better shop prices but also for dialogue.

I wouldn't bother about taking 10 or 12 wisdom, take 3, it won't make a difference. Charisma is the dialogue stat. The 2 dialogue options influenced by wisdom require more than 12 and aren't really useful.

18 dex and at least 16 con are most important.

Strength isn't that important, you can get 18/00 by casting the level 2 spell twice in a row and buy the girdle of hill giant strength later (although your other party members might benefit from it as well).
Take at least 10 so you can carry something, the more the better.

It shouldn't be a problem to roll a "perfect" character with at least

str 18, dex 18, con 16, int 18, wis 3, cha 18.

Faerun · Post by **Faerun** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:25 pm

I went with:

Str 16
Dex 18
Con 16
Int 18
Wis 10
Cha 15

But I just decided I want to download and use a rare items mod, so I'll probably restart

I don't feel comfortable having wisdom lower than 10, are you sure it does nothing compared to 3? That would surprise me if true...

Does high charisma give options beyond sweeter deals? If not then I don't really need it to be 18.

Onkel Bob · Post by **Onkel Bob** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:33 pm

High charisma plays a role in the bard stronghold quests as Vondondu pointed out. If I had those stats I'd lower strangth to 13 and raise charisma to 18. I don't like lowering wisdom to three since it seems to me like abusing game mechanics. If I did do that I'd have to roleplay the character...

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:59 pm

I'm sure 10 wis does nothing noteworthy compared to 3.
Charisma affects quite some dialogue options.

But you don't the optimal stats, you can even solo the game with minimum stats. In a normal game your bard is just 1 of 6 party members anyway.

Rav · Post by **Rav** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:34 pm

3 wisdom would lower lore by -20. 10 wisdom has no penalties for lore.

Faerun · Post by **Faerun** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:25 am

Thanks for all the tips. What I actually did was start a new BG1 game modded with Tutu (makes BG1 use the BG2 engine) and made a brand new Blade. I'm going to import him into BG2 when I'm done.

Str 16
Dex 18
Con 16
Int 18
Wis 10
Cha 16

I'll use the ring of human influence when finally dealing with my stronghold quest.

Silvanerian · Post by **Silvanerian** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:54 pm

Comments on attributes

Faerun

If you want the strongest character, which I assume from the posts in this thread, and you'll be going through BGI, I suggest the following starting stats in BGI:

Str: 18
Dex: 18
Con: 15
Int: 18
Wis: 10
Cha: 15

At the end of BGI you'll have:

Str: 19
Dex: 19
Con: 16
Int: 19
Wis: 13
Cha: 16

The effect of the increased Con is retro-active, so you'll not loose any HP totally.
The 13 in Wis is needed if you want to secure minimum 12 throughout all of BGII.

Intelligence at 19 is nice to have as it gives you 95% chance to scribe spells, which is practical when you don't have a potion handy (you can't acquire them just anywhere...), compared to 18-19 Charisma which is only usable in peace-time when buying from stores, and the high scores can then be gained by a ring or the level 1 spell "friends". (just keep a few in your scrollcase)

You need either 19 in natural strength or a strength enhacing item as non-fighters do not roll for exceptional strength. (18 str gives +1 THAC0/+2 Damage, 19 gives +3/+7 - quite the difference)
So if you're not going for 19 str, might as well drop natural strength to 12-13 ish and op something else.

The above suggested stats amount to the same as you already have, and you can therefore change them with Shadow Keeper without giving yourself more than you originally rolled.

If you're solo'ing and don't want to have to rely on your (limited) spells for every encounter, I suggest the higher natural strength, as even the lowliest mugger in Athkatla seem to have near 80-100 HPs, as it'll allow you to use your belt slot for something more interesting.
Otherwise I can recommend a str potion and draw upon holy might (if you get that ability)

kmonster · Post by **kmonster** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:29 pm

You have of course to hug a walkthrough and spoil your fun in order to make sure you find all tomes which aren't neccessary at all.

I recommend having fun with the game without spoilers as intended instead.
And even if you want to hug a walkthrough instead of playing the game yourself, it reduces the overall fun if your character is weaker for a long time just because he will be slightly stronger after you found the tomes.