Your opinion about the Harpers (SPOILERS)

Andurbal · Post by **Andurbal** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:04 am

I'm playing BG2 for the first time. Having played BG1 I had a very good opinion about the Harpers. Gorion was a Harper, Elminster is a Harper, Khalid and Jaheira are Harpers, and Harpers generally help you through the game.
But that changed in BG2!

SPOILER

I had to kill Galvarey, then some Harpers attacked me at the Druid Grove map and also had to kill them - it was me or them on both cases. Then Dermin(?), the one who introduced Jaheira to the Harpers came to attack, and she thought it better to renounce her Harper identity(!), so he left to announce it to... his superiors i think or something like that.

END SPOILER

I just think these things are very weird...:mischief: Shouldn't the Harpers be more reasonable? What do u think about that?

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:03 pm

They are pesky, annoying, self-righteous meddlers. Like most meddlers, they believe "the end justifies the means", so they do horrible things in the name of the "greater good". I usually kick Jaheira out of my party because her loyalty is to them instead of my party, and my characters won't tolerate anyone who keeps secrets from me or has an agenda that could undermine my own objectives. I either tell Harpers to bug off or I kill them if I have to. It's the only way to deal with them.

By the way, Galvarey is supposed to be a corrupt Harper, and when the Harper subquest is finally over, you're supposed to believe that the rest of the Harpers aren't as bad as he is. But I need more proof before I believe it.

As for Gorion, I know he's supposed to be a good mentor, but seriously, what did he ever do for me?

We really don't know that much about him, and the stories about him are inconsistent.

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:19 pm

Best to put a SPOILER tag in the title of a thread like this, since it's basically concerned with that kind of information, instead of being limited to a single post. I'll fix this one, but please consider doing this in the future.

Andurbal · Post by **Andurbal** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:50 pm

VonDondu wrote:I usually kick Jaheira out of my party because her loyalty is to them instead of my party, and my characters won't tolerate anyone who keeps secrets from me or has an agenda that could undermine my own objectives.

In my game i'm having a romance with Jaheira (though i'd prefer someone like Nalia) and she chooses to fight by my side against Galvarey and another group of Harpers that attacks as later despite the fact that their leader is an old acquaintance of hers. Later on when her mentor to the Harpers comes to attack us, i told that i trust her judgement, so she denounces the Harpers thinking they are wrong in this. I think that's pretty decent from her side, there's no undermining of my objectives but the opposite.

VonDondu wrote:By the way, Galvarey is supposed to be a corrupt Harper, and when the Harper subquest is finally over, you're supposed to believe that the rest of the Harpers aren't as bad as he is. But I need more proof before I believe it.

Yeah, Galvarey was an opportunistic scumbug, but for the rest i've yet to make up my mind...

VonDondu wrote:As for Gorion, I know he's supposed to be a good mentor, but seriously, what did he ever do for me? We really don't know that much about him, and the stories about him are inconsistent.

Well, for starters he died defending your life.... It's supposed to be good for the protagonist (did u know this is a greek word?). But i wonder why he and his fellow adventurers left the red dragon alive in the past, maybe they weren't so capable?

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:20 pm

I tend to view the Harpers as neutrally aligned Paladins in that they are quite self-rightious and they usually adopt an "ends justifies the means" approach.

But, I do think it is fair to say, just as with Paladins, they are not all bad. I feel there are shades of grey, as is the case with most organisations/political bodies etc.

Pellinore · Post by **Pellinore** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:15 pm

The Harpers as a group are Neutral with Good tendencies. The bulk of their members are Bards & Druids and they fight against slavery and are constantly at odds with the Zhentarim (like Xzar...). Whilst being 'good' it does not prevent members of the group from becoming bad seeds. Think of them as the U.N.

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:57 am

I think it's made clear that Galvarey and company aren't representative Harpers.
Still, I agree with Von Dondu, the Harpers are annoying meddlers. I always felt that Elminsters constantly popping up in BG1 was quite irritating.

Andurbal · Post by **Andurbal** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:00 am

Coot wrote:I think it's made clear that Galvarey and company aren't representative Harpers.

It's as clear as that other Harpers wanted to revenge his death... That's why I asked "Shouldn't they be more reasonable?" (especially when Jaheira explains to them about what happened)

Coot wrote:I always felt that Elminsters constantly popping up in BG1 was quite irritating.

I didn't mind his appearances, though i'd expect more than telling me something i already knew from the olest mage in Faerun (isn't he?) if he wanted to help me, like fighting by my side in a difficult battle.
So he never appears in BG2?

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:51 am

Andurbal wrote:It's as clear as that other Harpers wanted to revenge his death... That's why I asked "Shouldn't they be more reasonable?" (especially when Jaheira explains to them about what happened)

But, there are other Harpers, especially in BG1, who are a bit more reasonable.

Belladonna · Post by **Belladonna** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:20 am

The Harpers are a nosey bunch a quality that I do not like about a person or a group of people. They do mean well with helping out people but that Big Brother approach just rubs me the wrong way.

Tate · Post by **Tate** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:30 pm

Andurbal wrote:So he never appears in BG2?

SPOILER OMG!

Elminster doesn't show up in Shadows of Amn, but he does show up eventually in the expansion, Throne of Bhaal.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:08 pm

@Tate,

Actually, yes he does, as

Spoiler

Terminsel when you do Jaheira's quests

(spoiler - highlight to read)

Pellinore · Post by **Pellinore** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:32 pm

The old fart needs to go back to Shadowdale and stay there, maybe get a job at Walmart as a greeter or something. He clearly has too much time on his hands...

Andurbal · Post by **Andurbal** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:44 pm

Spoilers

I just wanted to say i think this "highlight to read" thing works great! Because I didn't read Dragon Wench's answer (Tate's is enough for me), which would have happened if she(?) had just put a SPOILER tag above (i can control my hands better than my eyes).

thanks 4 your answers again, i just like to discuss things and hear opinions

have a nice time - anytime

(if anyone cares, what does OMG mean?)

(ps: Dragon Wench, don't feel offended by the questionmark, i just don't know your genre for sure)

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:34 pm

Andurbal wrote: (if anyone cares, what does OMG mean?)

(ps: Dragon Wench, don't feel offended by the questionmark, i just don't know your genre for sure)

OMG = Oh My God

lol! I think that is the first time anyone here has been uncertain about my gender, but fair enough

I am indeed female

Andurbal · Post by **Andurbal** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:47 pm

dragon wench wrote:lol! I think that is the first time anyone here has been uncertain about my gender, but fair enough I am indeed female

If u say so, I believe it

BTW I'm not

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:55 pm

A general reminder that this forum is about BG2. If you would like to discuss other matters and want it moved to Speak Your Mind, please say so. If not, let's keep it on track.

Andurbal · Post by **Andurbal** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:16 pm

fable wrote:A general reminder that this forum is about BG2. If you would like to discuss other matters and want it moved to Speak Your Mind, please say so. If not, let's keep it on track.

You are very right, but also very "tight". I just wanted to congratulate whoever implemented the "highlight to read spoiler" thing (Hey, that's YOU!), though my incomplete knowledge of the English language and many abbreviations (what does BB mean?) used has deprived me of the knowledge of how to use it in my own posts, as well as the good use of it (by Dragon Wench in this case). If i spoke Greek (which is my native language) i would have avoided the word "she", but no-one would understand.

If you want to keep the conversation on track, how about telling me your comments on the subject of this thread? What happened with the Harpers doesn't stick well with their "concept", in my humble opinion. Your opinion would be very appreciated, regarding your experience. But maybe you just don't care to tell me, that's also understandable.

I hope i didn't get far from the track with this reply.

SEIZE THE DAY - or make my day!

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:17 pm

Andurbal wrote:You are very right, but also very "tight". I just wanted to congratulate whoever implemented the "highlight to read spoiler" thing (Hey, that's YOU!), though my incomplete knowledge of the English language and many abbreviations (what does BB mean?) used has deprived me of the knowledge of how to use it in my own posts, as well as the good use of it (by Dragon Wench in this case). If i spoke Greek (which is my native language) i would have avoided the word "she", but no-one would understand.

And my comments weren't aimed at you. I deliberately kept them generic so as not to point fingers, but if you scan back, you can see where things got off track, and who was initially responsible.

And if I'm being "tight," maybe you can take over for me with the site owner, Buck Satan, when I tell him I'm only sometimes enforcing his rules, because otherwise, members might not like it. And why I'm treating this thread differently than all other mods treat all other threads.

For the rest, I can contribute or not, but the point remains, since it apparently wasn't clear when I was being nice about it: this conversation gets back on track, or the thread closes. Because the site owner insists it's kept that way in the rules you agreed to when you joined. Clear enough? Now, if you want to continue this debate, you can send Buck Satan a personal message and tell him his rules are being enforced just as he demands and you don't like it.

That's the last word on this subject. Let's return to the thread subject, if we may.

Tate · Post by **Tate** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:41 pm

dragon wench wrote:@Tate,

Actually, yes he does, as
Spoiler
Terminsel when you do Jaheira's quests
(spoiler - highlight to read)

Gah. Sorry, I've never had much interest in Jaheira, the only time I've had her in my party was my first run through BG1.