Hey guys.
I recently got myself a copy of ToB so I got the game out of the closet again. No savegames anymore so I'll start a new party in SoA and play it all the way through.
My party is mostly chaotic neutral and consists of the following chars:
1. Elf sorcerer (wielding sling of evrard)
2. Human Monk (bare hands)
3. Human Fighter dual to cleric at level 9 (Warhammer and flail)
4. Elf archer (longbows)
5. Halfling Swashbuckler (dual wield katanas and longswords)
Any advice you have on what things I should pay attention to are appreciated.
advice on new party
Welcome to the forums. Here are some suggestions.
Your Elven Sorcerer can wield the Staff of the Magi as well as the Sling of Everard. Even though that sling creates its own magical bullets, you can still select +2 bullets or sunstone bullets and get the extra bonuses. As for spell selections, you can do a search in these forums for some great suggestions.
I don't have much to say about the Human Monk.
Instead of dualling a regular Fighter to a Cleric, you should consider playing a Berserker dualled to a Cleric. Berserker Rage gives your character immunity to a lot of different things, including Imprisonment. As an alternative, you can add Anomen to your party and let him fail his test so that he will be Chaotic Neutral. Take advantage of the Cleric buffing spells such as Armor of Faith, Draw Upon Holy Might, and Righteous Magic. Glyph of Warding can be used like a hand grenade, and Holy Smite and Holy Word are also very useful. Turn Undead is very effective at higher levels. An 18th level Cleric can automatically destroy an 11th level lich.
If you want to play an Elven Archer, there's an NPC mod that lets you add Kivan to your party. (He's an NPC from Baldur's Gate 1.) Don't forget to take advantage of his Druid spells and High Level Abilities such as Summon Deva. Armor of Faith and Hardiness can be used at the same time, which results in very high resistance to damage.
Swashbucklers are decent fighters, but they can't backstab and they have fewer attacks, fewer hit points, fewer proficiency points, and fewer High Level Abilities than Fighter/Thieves, so you might consider playing a Fighter/Thief. I can't think of any disadvantages since you'll have plenty of thieving points to spare even if you play a multi-class character. Celestial Fury is a very good weapon for your main hand, and there are many different choices for your off hand. I'm not sure why you picked longswords--if you find a good longsword, you might be better off giving it to your Elven Archer, who gets a +1 bonus for longswords and bows.
Your party is very melee-intensive, which is fine, but you might consider replacing one of your melee warriors with an Inquisitor. You won't lose any combat abilities, you'll have better saving throws, and you'll have some useful spells, including True Sight, Dispel Magic, and Summon Deva.
Good luck!
Your Elven Sorcerer can wield the Staff of the Magi as well as the Sling of Everard. Even though that sling creates its own magical bullets, you can still select +2 bullets or sunstone bullets and get the extra bonuses. As for spell selections, you can do a search in these forums for some great suggestions.
I don't have much to say about the Human Monk.
Instead of dualling a regular Fighter to a Cleric, you should consider playing a Berserker dualled to a Cleric. Berserker Rage gives your character immunity to a lot of different things, including Imprisonment. As an alternative, you can add Anomen to your party and let him fail his test so that he will be Chaotic Neutral. Take advantage of the Cleric buffing spells such as Armor of Faith, Draw Upon Holy Might, and Righteous Magic. Glyph of Warding can be used like a hand grenade, and Holy Smite and Holy Word are also very useful. Turn Undead is very effective at higher levels. An 18th level Cleric can automatically destroy an 11th level lich.
If you want to play an Elven Archer, there's an NPC mod that lets you add Kivan to your party. (He's an NPC from Baldur's Gate 1.) Don't forget to take advantage of his Druid spells and High Level Abilities such as Summon Deva. Armor of Faith and Hardiness can be used at the same time, which results in very high resistance to damage.
Swashbucklers are decent fighters, but they can't backstab and they have fewer attacks, fewer hit points, fewer proficiency points, and fewer High Level Abilities than Fighter/Thieves, so you might consider playing a Fighter/Thief. I can't think of any disadvantages since you'll have plenty of thieving points to spare even if you play a multi-class character. Celestial Fury is a very good weapon for your main hand, and there are many different choices for your off hand. I'm not sure why you picked longswords--if you find a good longsword, you might be better off giving it to your Elven Archer, who gets a +1 bonus for longswords and bows.
Your party is very melee-intensive, which is fine, but you might consider replacing one of your melee warriors with an Inquisitor. You won't lose any combat abilities, you'll have better saving throws, and you'll have some useful spells, including True Sight, Dispel Magic, and Summon Deva.
Good luck!
For your swashbuckler I recommend wielding kundane or belm in the off-hand, so you get a second attack per round with your mainhand, you could even use both for even more attacks.
Once your swashbucklers gets enough whirlwind HLAs (very late in the game) he can get 10 attacks per round without dualwielding. He can even get 10 attacks per round with Carsomyr then, thanks to the "use any item" HLA.
Since your only arcane caster is a sorc, you'll never be able to cast or use the spells you don't pick unless you spend a scroll or use the project image or simulacrum trick to use scrolls without spending them.
You could replace character 5 with a fighter/mage/thief for arcane backup power, but the game should be doable without.
For character3 I'd consider taking 7 or 9 ranger levels instead of 9 fighter levels, so you can also enjoy the druid spells.
Once your swashbucklers gets enough whirlwind HLAs (very late in the game) he can get 10 attacks per round without dualwielding. He can even get 10 attacks per round with Carsomyr then, thanks to the "use any item" HLA.
Since your only arcane caster is a sorc, you'll never be able to cast or use the spells you don't pick unless you spend a scroll or use the project image or simulacrum trick to use scrolls without spending them.
You could replace character 5 with a fighter/mage/thief for arcane backup power, but the game should be doable without.
For character3 I'd consider taking 7 or 9 ranger levels instead of 9 fighter levels, so you can also enjoy the druid spells.
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Amran_X_Kaiser
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Bushwackers - meh not a big fan of - a thief is a thief is a thief - backstab!
1. Elf sorcerer (wielding sling of evrard)
2. Human Monk (bare hands)
3. Human Fighter dual to cleric at level 9 (Warhammer and flail)
4. Elf archer (longbows)
5. Halfling Swashbuckler (dual wield katanas and longswords)
So far your entire party can cover most of what you need - melee, arcane, archery, theiving.
However initailly i think you chose rather straightforwardly and here's why.
Berserker > Cleric is a good choice and always will be - but i'd recommend at level 13 for that extra attack - anything else and your just killing time. But if you really want to go for a powerhouse - a half-elf ranger/cleric - oh wow - limited resistance to sleep and charm, all spells from the get-go take it and your divine spellcasting is done - all druid/cleric spells, ranger bonuses and crom fayer, flail of ages, cloak of that blind guy as well - your melee aspects are unparalled.
You should never take a sorcerer or spellcaster as your main npc - getting a familiar ain't going to help you much hp wise and if your hit - your hit - its over. I'd recommend having this spellcaster as your number 2. Elven sorcerer good choice but i'd recommend darts at low levels - you'll be surprised how useful a dart of stunning/wounding sorcerer is with 3 attacks each round - not a bad thrower.
The monk has two items to his name - helm+gauntlets - everything else is just part of the background - he underpowered in terms of NWN and i like monks - i know there strengths but also know that if you take a monk your needing alot of versatility - i'd strongly recommend using an inquisitor (altho i think their useless everyone else loves them - once you get caromyr any paladin becomes a inquisitor so i'd take an undead hunter, if ur not comfortable with an inquisitor)
Elf Archer is nice - composite long bow and arrows and he's ready to go - if in melee, caught unaware or out of arrows - ur in a pickle. Archery is good - but with a thief - the shortbow tends to be the best bow anyway and one of the best bows can make your thief amazing at archery. So here you have some wiggle-room - i'd take one of the powerhouses since so far alot of melee ground has been taken away - ah the evil dwarf barbarian - is there anyone else more reliable in a brawl.
Bushwacker - nice but not a fighter, not a theif - he's a a middle-ground man - your much better of specializing here with your fifth guy - an assassin for those backstab oppurtunities when that tuigan bow aint gonna cut it, swashbuckler>mage that can dual wield scimitars plus that ac bonus, specialiization and mage spells, even a bounty hunter with the tuigans bow at high levels is amazingly good - taking a basic swashbuckler isn't your only option here.
Take a look at the suggestions - Undead Hunter, Ranger/Cleric, Barbarian, Assassin and a Sorcerer.
While normally I wouldn't recommend having a spell class as your npc - barbarian takes the brunt of the damage and the inquistior has no way of being able to resist level drain minus a scroll or mace of disruption - take an undead hunter then use him as ur main npc. But so far the class above covers a whole lot of ground but not only that - each one of the chars will know which role to play - the items gained can only further these abilities or enhance ways in which they can have another skill - give the assassin tuigans bow and his archery improves - give a inquisitor undead hunter caromsyr and his dispelling improves - the above recommendation gives them more roleplaying value in my opinion - there is no npc with the above attributes, all of the basics are covered, they are each specialized characters, and you can get one npc a time for those quests whilst using the above 5 npcs - there is no way that you cant have every base covered.
Bushwackers - meh not a big fan of - a thief is a thief is a thief - backstab!
1. Elf sorcerer (wielding sling of evrard)
2. Human Monk (bare hands)
3. Human Fighter dual to cleric at level 9 (Warhammer and flail)
4. Elf archer (longbows)
5. Halfling Swashbuckler (dual wield katanas and longswords)
So far your entire party can cover most of what you need - melee, arcane, archery, theiving.
However initailly i think you chose rather straightforwardly and here's why.
Berserker > Cleric is a good choice and always will be - but i'd recommend at level 13 for that extra attack - anything else and your just killing time. But if you really want to go for a powerhouse - a half-elf ranger/cleric - oh wow - limited resistance to sleep and charm, all spells from the get-go take it and your divine spellcasting is done - all druid/cleric spells, ranger bonuses and crom fayer, flail of ages, cloak of that blind guy as well - your melee aspects are unparalled.
You should never take a sorcerer or spellcaster as your main npc - getting a familiar ain't going to help you much hp wise and if your hit - your hit - its over. I'd recommend having this spellcaster as your number 2. Elven sorcerer good choice but i'd recommend darts at low levels - you'll be surprised how useful a dart of stunning/wounding sorcerer is with 3 attacks each round - not a bad thrower.
The monk has two items to his name - helm+gauntlets - everything else is just part of the background - he underpowered in terms of NWN and i like monks - i know there strengths but also know that if you take a monk your needing alot of versatility - i'd strongly recommend using an inquisitor (altho i think their useless everyone else loves them - once you get caromyr any paladin becomes a inquisitor so i'd take an undead hunter, if ur not comfortable with an inquisitor)
Elf Archer is nice - composite long bow and arrows and he's ready to go - if in melee, caught unaware or out of arrows - ur in a pickle. Archery is good - but with a thief - the shortbow tends to be the best bow anyway and one of the best bows can make your thief amazing at archery. So here you have some wiggle-room - i'd take one of the powerhouses since so far alot of melee ground has been taken away - ah the evil dwarf barbarian - is there anyone else more reliable in a brawl.
Bushwacker - nice but not a fighter, not a theif - he's a a middle-ground man - your much better of specializing here with your fifth guy - an assassin for those backstab oppurtunities when that tuigan bow aint gonna cut it, swashbuckler>mage that can dual wield scimitars plus that ac bonus, specialiization and mage spells, even a bounty hunter with the tuigans bow at high levels is amazingly good - taking a basic swashbuckler isn't your only option here.
Take a look at the suggestions - Undead Hunter, Ranger/Cleric, Barbarian, Assassin and a Sorcerer.
While normally I wouldn't recommend having a spell class as your npc - barbarian takes the brunt of the damage and the inquistior has no way of being able to resist level drain minus a scroll or mace of disruption - take an undead hunter then use him as ur main npc. But so far the class above covers a whole lot of ground but not only that - each one of the chars will know which role to play - the items gained can only further these abilities or enhance ways in which they can have another skill - give the assassin tuigans bow and his archery improves - give a inquisitor undead hunter caromsyr and his dispelling improves - the above recommendation gives them more roleplaying value in my opinion - there is no npc with the above attributes, all of the basics are covered, they are each specialized characters, and you can get one npc a time for those quests whilst using the above 5 npcs - there is no way that you cant have every base covered.
“Any advice you have on what things I should pay attention to are appreciated.” I don’t understand what you mean? Are you asking for comments on your character selection and equipment selection? Experienced players can play anything and use anything and do OK. People new to the game may find playing powerful characters and using powerful equipment easier, but some of these people will have more fun role playing what they like to play. As I don’t know which category you fit in, I will just provide a few comments to you and then address the comments that other people have made. I’ll be making some comments in regards to Improved Anvil because that is the toughest modified BG2 game that I have played. Thus, it demonstrates what is possible when you are really challenged.
If you want an easier game, make sure you supply that archer with arrows of dispelling (reserved exclusively for dispelling) and Shield of Balduran. These 2 items are unavailable in Improved Anvil. The longbow is the best choice for the elf archer if you want to roleplay Tolkein. The shortbow is the best choice if you want to powerplay or provide a bow to the 5 foot DnD elves. Who is your tank? It looks like the swashbuckler will eventually be your tank. At low levels, you seem a might squishy. Any way, the swashbuckler should use a shield when max AC is needed. In this group I would give him kundane/belm (scarlet ninja-to) and Celestial Fury.
“I don't have much to say about the Human Monk.” Nor do I. They can be effective characters, particularly at high levels and particularly at high levels with revised HLAs, but this class has never been a favorite of mine.
“Instead of dualling a regular Fighter to a Cleric, you should consider playing a Berserker dualled to a Cleric.” I like low level duals myself- maybe even at level 7. In this case, he will usually be used as a spell caster. So, choosing fighter over berserker allows him to be more proficient with ranged weapons. With enough buffing, even a pure cleric can become a very powerful melee guy (much more powerful than an unbuffed berserker-cleric). If you are going for straight power, the ranger-cleric dual is better. If you want the most powerful cleric-type melee guy, I would go with the ranger-cleric multi. I’m not sure why you would ever want Anomen to fail his test?
Swashbucklers seem to be getting a bad rap in this thread. By the time my swashbuckler gets Use Any Item, I think he will kill most fighters and fighter-thieves. The primary reason to choose swashbuckler is for his AC bonus. This can be beneficial in ToB. It’s very beneficial in mods like Improved Anvil. My swashbuckler had an AC of -17 before spells and was getting banged on more than 5% of the time it seemed. I plan on ramping that AC to at least -21. It helps. He can also take advantage of damage resistance equipment. Fighter-thieves have an advantage over swashbucklers as a fighter early on mainly due to THAC0 (but that’s not enough to overcome the swashbucklers AC later on); they have the advantage of backstabbing forever. I personally don’t like the micromanagement of backstabbing and that ability has largely been neutralized in the tough combats of Improved Anvil. Still, if backstabbing is your thing, that’s definitely a reason to choose fighter-thief. Lesser reasons to choose a swashbuckler over a fighter-thief are that the swashbuckler accumulates thieving skills (including better traps) faster. This can be huge in the regular game because he can be reasonably skilled at disarming traps and unlocking things, as well as an expert at stealing things. If you steal, you can easily break the game’s challenge by stocking yourself with items and expendables early on – you can’t do this in Improved Anvil. A swashbuckler also gets more XP in the long run for the team for disarming traps and opening locks. The game links the earnings to the thief levels. So, quicker leveling leads to more rewards. This doesn’t make any difference to me in the normal game, but it helps a lot to gain levels as fast as you can in Improved Anvil.
“You should never take a sorcerer or spellcaster as your main npc.” I don’t understand this statement. Some people can complete the entire game with Ascension on Insane difficulty with a solo sorcerer. I have tanked with a sorcerer in a few battles – just because I can.
If you want an easier game, make sure you supply that archer with arrows of dispelling (reserved exclusively for dispelling) and Shield of Balduran. These 2 items are unavailable in Improved Anvil. The longbow is the best choice for the elf archer if you want to roleplay Tolkein. The shortbow is the best choice if you want to powerplay or provide a bow to the 5 foot DnD elves. Who is your tank? It looks like the swashbuckler will eventually be your tank. At low levels, you seem a might squishy. Any way, the swashbuckler should use a shield when max AC is needed. In this group I would give him kundane/belm (scarlet ninja-to) and Celestial Fury.
“I don't have much to say about the Human Monk.” Nor do I. They can be effective characters, particularly at high levels and particularly at high levels with revised HLAs, but this class has never been a favorite of mine.
“Instead of dualling a regular Fighter to a Cleric, you should consider playing a Berserker dualled to a Cleric.” I like low level duals myself- maybe even at level 7. In this case, he will usually be used as a spell caster. So, choosing fighter over berserker allows him to be more proficient with ranged weapons. With enough buffing, even a pure cleric can become a very powerful melee guy (much more powerful than an unbuffed berserker-cleric). If you are going for straight power, the ranger-cleric dual is better. If you want the most powerful cleric-type melee guy, I would go with the ranger-cleric multi. I’m not sure why you would ever want Anomen to fail his test?
Swashbucklers seem to be getting a bad rap in this thread. By the time my swashbuckler gets Use Any Item, I think he will kill most fighters and fighter-thieves. The primary reason to choose swashbuckler is for his AC bonus. This can be beneficial in ToB. It’s very beneficial in mods like Improved Anvil. My swashbuckler had an AC of -17 before spells and was getting banged on more than 5% of the time it seemed. I plan on ramping that AC to at least -21. It helps. He can also take advantage of damage resistance equipment. Fighter-thieves have an advantage over swashbucklers as a fighter early on mainly due to THAC0 (but that’s not enough to overcome the swashbucklers AC later on); they have the advantage of backstabbing forever. I personally don’t like the micromanagement of backstabbing and that ability has largely been neutralized in the tough combats of Improved Anvil. Still, if backstabbing is your thing, that’s definitely a reason to choose fighter-thief. Lesser reasons to choose a swashbuckler over a fighter-thief are that the swashbuckler accumulates thieving skills (including better traps) faster. This can be huge in the regular game because he can be reasonably skilled at disarming traps and unlocking things, as well as an expert at stealing things. If you steal, you can easily break the game’s challenge by stocking yourself with items and expendables early on – you can’t do this in Improved Anvil. A swashbuckler also gets more XP in the long run for the team for disarming traps and opening locks. The game links the earnings to the thief levels. So, quicker leveling leads to more rewards. This doesn’t make any difference to me in the normal game, but it helps a lot to gain levels as fast as you can in Improved Anvil.
“You should never take a sorcerer or spellcaster as your main npc.” I don’t understand this statement. Some people can complete the entire game with Ascension on Insane difficulty with a solo sorcerer. I have tanked with a sorcerer in a few battles – just because I can.
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Amran_X_Kaiser
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In a team its best to have a character up front with strong melee potential - someone that has an edge but the hp so survive at the forefront of every enemy you come across. A max of 81hp isnt the best - even a bard has an hp of 140+ while the monk has 150+ - look at that in comparison of any fighter/ranger/paladin class - 220+
In a team its best to have a character up front with strong melee potential - someone that has an edge but the hp so survive at the forefront of every enemy you come across. A max of 81hp isnt the best - even a bard has an hp of 140+ while the monk has 150+ - look at that in comparison of any fighter/ranger/paladin class - 220+
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FireLighter
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Not a bad idea, but Swashbucklers are thiefs, thiefs don't get Whirlwind. If you really wanna go that route though, you can multiclass the thief and use shadowkeeper to make him a fighter/swashbuckler. (I think)kmonster wrote:Once your swashbucklers gets enough whirlwind HLAs (very late in the game) he can get 10 attacks per round without dualwielding. He can even get 10 attacks per round with Carsomyr then, thanks to the "use any item" HLA.
"To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
Swashbucklers have Whirlwind as a HLA.FireLighter wrote:Not a bad idea, but Swashbucklers are thiefs, thiefs don't get Whirlwind. If you really wanna go that route though, you can multiclass the thief and use shadowkeeper to make him a fighter/swashbuckler. (I think)
"A life is not important, except in the impact it has on other lives."
-- Jackie Robinson
Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu!
-- Jackie Robinson
Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu!
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Amran_X_Kaiser
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FireLighter
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Grombag wrote:Just checked it, a swashbuckler has whirlwind attack as HLA. He doesn't have greater whirlwind.
My bad.(Only played a swashbuckler in SoA!)
"To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War