Is Dexterity bugged in CE and ... does it increase the frequency of getting hits on critters as the manual implies (to me)?
The idea of dexterity seems very complimentary to Agility and in principle the game mechanic looks good; like the way Dex is supposed to operate makes more sense in this game than I have seen in a number of other RPGs.
Is Dexterity bugged in CE and ...
Is Dexterity bugged in CE and ...
Really, how many people do you know that are not NPCs?
Okay I just found this from Planet Guardian ...
Also does Hawkeye work well enough if Dex is under 85 - seen a couple of references now to make 85 the max for dex?
This probably all works for me as I never get anything over 70. How come everyone is going 100+ in attributes? Am I missing something?
So strike bug is the problem and no fix?Hawkeye works in CE 1.5, but...I got my RangerLord's Dexterity up to 109 before I became fully aware of the strike bug as being the source why I couldn't hit anything.
Also does Hawkeye work well enough if Dex is under 85 - seen a couple of references now to make 85 the max for dex?
This probably all works for me as I never get anything over 70. How come everyone is going 100+ in attributes? Am I missing something?
Really, how many people do you know that are not NPCs?
Buggies!
Your strike is what you have to watch. Armour, rings, trinkets, weapons and heraldries can all have strike bonuses attached. These can add up to 20 or 30 strike points. One thing to remember is "The Boon of The Relic is Yours". This will add some attribute points over the course of the game.
I had returned the ring to Talendor and got the "Boon". I had also taken the opportunity to add a few more points to my attributes with the result that I couldn't hit a thing :speech: I then began to remove whatever was giving me strike bonuses but it wasn't enough
I then got the bright idea of putting on the Gas Mask as that takes strike points away. Worked like a charm, strike was down to 97!
Seasoned players who enjoy the challenge may want to take their time getting through the game as they know the pitfalls and places to rapidly add levels to their character.
Also people who play multiplayer can have high levels as you have the ability to play the same area over and over.
There were some players that would host just to add levels to their characters and those of their guests. This would be classed as an exploit (cheat) in my opinion, although most thought it alright.
Got my character up to around 1230
Da Wiz :mischief:
I found that strike is bugged but not necessarily dexterity. Your strike can be over 100 while your dexterity is below that and the problem will occur. The manual is correct however, strike increases in direct proportion to dexterity.Is Dexterity bugged in CE and ... does it increase the frequency of getting hits on critters as the manual implies (to me)?
I agree with you about the mechanics and the way the attributes work. For example, dexterity + agility are used to increase your parry skill. Agility is about speed and that can max out fairly early. The only way to increase it after that is with heraldries.The idea of dexterity seems very complimentary to Agility and in principle the game mechanic looks good; like the way Dex is supposed to operate makes more sense in this game than I have seen in a number of other RPGs.
If you encounter the strike bug you won't be able to hit a thing regardless of the points in your Hawkeye skill.Also does Hawkeye work well enough if Dex is under 85 - seen a couple of references now to make 85 the max for dex?
Your strike is what you have to watch. Armour, rings, trinkets, weapons and heraldries can all have strike bonuses attached. These can add up to 20 or 30 strike points. One thing to remember is "The Boon of The Relic is Yours". This will add some attribute points over the course of the game.
I had returned the ring to Talendor and got the "Boon". I had also taken the opportunity to add a few more points to my attributes with the result that I couldn't hit a thing :speech: I then began to remove whatever was giving me strike bonuses but it wasn't enough
I then got the bright idea of putting on the Gas Mask as that takes strike points away. Worked like a charm, strike was down to 97! It all depends on how you want to play the gameHow come everyone is going 100+ in attributes? Am I missing something?
Seasoned players who enjoy the challenge may want to take their time getting through the game as they know the pitfalls and places to rapidly add levels to their character.
Also people who play multiplayer can have high levels as you have the ability to play the same area over and over.
There were some players that would host just to add levels to their characters and those of their guests. This would be classed as an exploit (cheat) in my opinion, although most thought it alright.
Got my character up to around 1230
Da Wiz :mischief:
I've never experienced the strike bug - with a strike well over 100.. (in CE).
Here is the page on Attributes and their derivations:
http://www.gamebanshee.com/dungeonlords/attributes.php
High attributes *sound* like a good idea.. but practically speaking they aren't that great (with one exception).
The problem here is their usefulness vs. your ability to obtain higher levels.
For instance:
Intelligence directly decreases skill cost. Therefore a higher intelligence allows you to spend fewer skill points for a given skill. BUT you have three serious problems here:
1. Intelligence does NOT scale proportionately to skill cost reduction. Once you get past 45 points in this attribute, then any increases to it does not lower your skill cost as much. I'd estimate that doubling your Intelligence to 90 only results in about a 30% reduction in skill level costs.
2. Higher levels in Intelligence cost increasingly more (though not double like a skill). This makes spending the points on Intelligence (beyond 45) - costly. The only time it makes sense is lowering skill costs at extremely high skill levels. Of course racial bonuses and detriments can alter this somewhat.
3. Skill costs double per level (..without obtaining an additional learning bonus). Practically speaking - this puts a serious "cap" on how many levels you can put in any skill, because you do NOT gain experience proportionately to match that increasing cost. For instance: killing just one moonbeast might net you 5 skill levels (1-5) for any given skill, but to go from skill level 9 to 10 (one level) might well require killing 100's of moonbeasts. Note however that at an extreme skill level cost (2+ million), you may well be better off spending a good bit of that 2 million to increase Intelligence beyond 45 (to around 80) to decrease your skill costs by about 25%, and THEN spending the rest on increasing your skill (..this is particularly true if that next skill level is not 2 million, but rather 4 million points :speech: ). Again, racial bonuses and detriments alter this some.
For a derivative example:
The Parry skill increases with an increase in the attribute Agility. Like the 1st and 2nd problems with Intelligence, it doesn't scale well.. Higher and higher levels of Agility only provide modest gains to Parry while costing more and more experience points. Again though, like Intelligence above, at extremely high Parry levels, you may be better off increasing Agility.
Another attribute example:
Vitality - again, as you increase this attribute - fewer and fewer health points are obtained at increased experience point expenditures.
....
Dexterity has been discussed, and Honor is pointless (beyond commerce).
....
Finally we have the exception to the group:
Strength directly effects your Damage stat (and also your ability to use heavier items). Unlike the other attributes, it scales almost inversely for Damage..
At lower levels (below about 40), Strength does not effect Damage as much.. BUT around 40+ it has a one-to-one relationship to damage. I.E. for every point your Strength increases - so does your damage potential.
Because Strength scales in this fashion - its usually a priority for all my characters. (The ability to bash chests is just a bonus.) To "buff" the character some more..
I'll often increase it to where it becomes prohibitive to increase it anymore for a given race and sex (which is usually between 85 and 100). I'll do this all before "cashing-in" on my first +3 to attributes for the placing the artifact (horn). After that, I won't spend any more experience points on it, but that doesn't mean that I won't increase it more..:mischief:
Of course I'll also receive an increase from the other artifacts (excepting the last of course), BUT I don't "cash" those in until the end.. or at the very least not until I do this:
Just before the Tomb of Souls - I'll typically have increased my other attributes modestly (above 45 points), usually no more than the mid-sixties. Moreover, I keep them within about 3 points of each other (excepting honor).
Then I make my Infernal "deal".. for Strength in the Tomb of Souls. (..saving of course before.) With a "normal" character you can increase Strength to I believe to a maximum of +19 (its a variable which is why I save first). An atypical character with the "Fools" heraldry can go up to I believe 10 more points beyond this. Of course the penalty is a reduction in all of your other attributes (..and the Fools heraldry seems to lessen this).
Of course the experience point expenditure for this "deal" is NOT the same. Your character might well have expended more than 20 million experience points to achieve such a high level in Strength without the "Fools", while likely spending less than 1 million in experience points to "pay" for the reduction in all your other attributes (..because they are at lower levels and as a result cost a lot less). A "Fool"ish character might well have expended 40 million + for their strength increase.
Only after this do I start increasing my other attributes above the mid-sixties (..UNLESS Intelligence is REALLY easy to increase as a female elf.. which is the only time I'd increase it high along with strength). Once I'm satisfied with their level I'll return the other artifacts.
Here is the page on Attributes and their derivations:
http://www.gamebanshee.com/dungeonlords/attributes.php
High attributes *sound* like a good idea.. but practically speaking they aren't that great (with one exception).
The problem here is their usefulness vs. your ability to obtain higher levels.
For instance:
Intelligence directly decreases skill cost. Therefore a higher intelligence allows you to spend fewer skill points for a given skill. BUT you have three serious problems here:
1. Intelligence does NOT scale proportionately to skill cost reduction. Once you get past 45 points in this attribute, then any increases to it does not lower your skill cost as much. I'd estimate that doubling your Intelligence to 90 only results in about a 30% reduction in skill level costs.
2. Higher levels in Intelligence cost increasingly more (though not double like a skill). This makes spending the points on Intelligence (beyond 45) - costly. The only time it makes sense is lowering skill costs at extremely high skill levels. Of course racial bonuses and detriments can alter this somewhat.
3. Skill costs double per level (..without obtaining an additional learning bonus). Practically speaking - this puts a serious "cap" on how many levels you can put in any skill, because you do NOT gain experience proportionately to match that increasing cost. For instance: killing just one moonbeast might net you 5 skill levels (1-5) for any given skill, but to go from skill level 9 to 10 (one level) might well require killing 100's of moonbeasts. Note however that at an extreme skill level cost (2+ million), you may well be better off spending a good bit of that 2 million to increase Intelligence beyond 45 (to around 80) to decrease your skill costs by about 25%, and THEN spending the rest on increasing your skill (..this is particularly true if that next skill level is not 2 million, but rather 4 million points :speech: ). Again, racial bonuses and detriments alter this some.
For a derivative example:
The Parry skill increases with an increase in the attribute Agility. Like the 1st and 2nd problems with Intelligence, it doesn't scale well.. Higher and higher levels of Agility only provide modest gains to Parry while costing more and more experience points. Again though, like Intelligence above, at extremely high Parry levels, you may be better off increasing Agility.
Another attribute example:
Vitality - again, as you increase this attribute - fewer and fewer health points are obtained at increased experience point expenditures.
....
Dexterity has been discussed, and Honor is pointless (beyond commerce).
....
Finally we have the exception to the group:
Strength directly effects your Damage stat (and also your ability to use heavier items). Unlike the other attributes, it scales almost inversely for Damage..
At lower levels (below about 40), Strength does not effect Damage as much.. BUT around 40+ it has a one-to-one relationship to damage. I.E. for every point your Strength increases - so does your damage potential.
Because Strength scales in this fashion - its usually a priority for all my characters. (The ability to bash chests is just a bonus.) To "buff" the character some more..
I'll often increase it to where it becomes prohibitive to increase it anymore for a given race and sex (which is usually between 85 and 100). I'll do this all before "cashing-in" on my first +3 to attributes for the placing the artifact (horn). After that, I won't spend any more experience points on it, but that doesn't mean that I won't increase it more..:mischief:
Of course I'll also receive an increase from the other artifacts (excepting the last of course), BUT I don't "cash" those in until the end.. or at the very least not until I do this:
Just before the Tomb of Souls - I'll typically have increased my other attributes modestly (above 45 points), usually no more than the mid-sixties. Moreover, I keep them within about 3 points of each other (excepting honor).
Then I make my Infernal "deal".. for Strength in the Tomb of Souls. (..saving of course before.) With a "normal" character you can increase Strength to I believe to a maximum of +19 (its a variable which is why I save first). An atypical character with the "Fools" heraldry can go up to I believe 10 more points beyond this. Of course the penalty is a reduction in all of your other attributes (..and the Fools heraldry seems to lessen this).
Of course the experience point expenditure for this "deal" is NOT the same. Your character might well have expended more than 20 million experience points to achieve such a high level in Strength without the "Fools", while likely spending less than 1 million in experience points to "pay" for the reduction in all your other attributes (..because they are at lower levels and as a result cost a lot less). A "Fool"ish character might well have expended 40 million + for their strength increase.
Only after this do I start increasing my other attributes above the mid-sixties (..UNLESS Intelligence is REALLY easy to increase as a female elf.. which is the only time I'd increase it high along with strength). Once I'm satisfied with their level I'll return the other artifacts.
Thanks guys,
What I am hearing is that the bug can happen - happened to War-Wiz but not to Scottg. So Scottg has better karma than War-Wiz? Or is this one of the game's mysteries?
I guess people will look back on some of these posts and say, "Yeah, there was another gamer addict. He had it pretty bad in fact."
When will the world regard this stuff as seriously bad - the Civilisation ad about addicts to that game I think was kinda close to how things can be. Very funny though.
Really though there are just too many things to be addicted to - so its hard to OD any any one thing. Still good effort there War-Wiz!
Great info on Str, Scottg, didn't realize just how useful it could be. Also that deal with the red devil sounds like a better ploy than smacking him on the mouth like I do. Can I smack him after doing the deal? :mischief:
I've always liked the Luck Herald and from the way you use it looks like it could be the best herald in the game.
Excellent info, I appreciate it.
What I am hearing is that the bug can happen - happened to War-Wiz but not to Scottg. So Scottg has better karma than War-Wiz?
Or is this one of the game's mysteries? Bit embarassed to admit this but this explains why I never found the 'boon' in my inventory.One thing to remember is "The Boon of The Relic is Yours". This will add some attribute points over the course of the game.
Well that is something to have a big grin about; so do you play any other games, is that even possible? Do you give lessons on how to expand time?Got my character up to around 1230
I guess people will look back on some of these posts and say, "Yeah, there was another gamer addict. He had it pretty bad in fact."
When will the world regard this stuff as seriously bad - the Civilisation ad about addicts to that game I think was kinda close to how things can be. Very funny though.
Really though there are just too many things to be addicted to - so its hard to OD any any one thing. Still good effort there War-Wiz!
Great info on Str, Scottg, didn't realize just how useful it could be. Also that deal with the red devil sounds like a better ploy than smacking him on the mouth like I do. Can I smack him after doing the deal? :mischief:
I've always liked the Luck Herald and from the way you use it looks like it could be the best herald in the game.
Excellent info, I appreciate it.
Really, how many people do you know that are not NPCs?
Me? Addicted??
Heh......yeah, I was playing online almost daily for a few hours at a time. There were a few players there that were as enthusiastic as I was, so getting together for a game was as easy as logging in. We had a sort of unoffical clan or group and we would play through the Tomb of Souls time after time. We would finish the tomb and the host would save the game ensuring that the adv. points we had earned were kept. Then we would take off our armour, put our weapons away and start beating the heck out of one another using ninjitsu. It would turn into a real battle on occasion, lasting a half hour or more. Sometime after I started gaming with these players one of them actually exceeded the maximum level the game allows, 2109. I saw this happen. He was able to continue with this character and its' high skill and attributes although he had to start from level one again.
As you can also drop or pick up items and spells I was always well stocked with magic.
After awhile this clan slowly broke up and went their seperate ways. I had a type of router that made it impossible to host a game on GameSpy and then I changed to a wireless router which made online play almost impossible so I no longer play multiplayer online.
There is a downside to playing like this however, your fighting and decision making skills do deteriorate as when at a high magic level you can clear a room with one fireball or take down a dozen spiders with one cast of drainlife (very BTW). The Fiend of Ghazbu (and his 5000+ hit points)will go down with one cast of cataclysm. The challenges you once faced are no longer there, it gets boring. Playing the game in a linear efficient way is much more challenging and enjoyable IMHO.
The info supplied by Scottg, Claudius and others is invaluable to the "purist" gamer who wants to "do it by the numbers".
As far as the strike bug, yeah it happens but when your damage lets you hit for two and a half times the weapons maximum and your strike is in the high nineties it doesn't mean a whole lot You don't miss very often.
Da Wiz :mischief:
Heh......yeah, I was playing online almost daily for a few hours at a time. There were a few players there that were as enthusiastic as I was, so getting together for a game was as easy as logging in. We had a sort of unoffical clan or group and we would play through the Tomb of Souls time after time. We would finish the tomb and the host would save the game ensuring that the adv. points we had earned were kept. Then we would take off our armour, put our weapons away and start beating the heck out of one another using ninjitsu. It would turn into a real battle on occasion, lasting a half hour or more. Sometime after I started gaming with these players one of them actually exceeded the maximum level the game allows, 2109. I saw this happen. He was able to continue with this character and its' high skill and attributes although he had to start from level one again.
As you can also drop or pick up items and spells I was always well stocked with magic.
After awhile this clan slowly broke up and went their seperate ways. I had a type of router that made it impossible to host a game on GameSpy and then I changed to a wireless router which made online play almost impossible so I no longer play multiplayer online.
There is a downside to playing like this however, your fighting and decision making skills do deteriorate as when at a high magic level you can clear a room with one fireball or take down a dozen spiders with one cast of drainlife (very
BTW). The Fiend of Ghazbu (and his 5000+ hit points)will go down with one cast of cataclysm. The challenges you once faced are no longer there, it gets boring. Playing the game in a linear efficient way is much more challenging and enjoyable IMHO. The info supplied by Scottg, Claudius and others is invaluable to the "purist" gamer who wants to "do it by the numbers".
As far as the strike bug, yeah it happens but when your damage lets you hit for two and a half times the weapons maximum and your strike is in the high nineties it doesn't mean a whole lot
You don't miss very often.Da Wiz :mischief: