Rogue/Barbarian/Divine Champ Ideas.

Elias De vere · Post by **Elias De vere** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:15 pm

Today, i had an idea for a new character. A human rogue/barb/DC. the reasoning was that i would be able to open locks and disarm traps, so making the game easier. Then, barbarian for its strength and abilities, but mainly damage. Then, Divine Champion for healing powers and more damage. it hopefuly will be a R4/B6/DC10. Weapon finesse obviously will be taken. As well as power attack and all those stuff. So, does anyone else think this is a good idea, or are there better races for this combo. And has anyone done this one before? I would be interested in reading you replies on this subject, thank you.

DrowishFighter · Post by **DrowishFighter** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:10 pm

I would suggest daul wielding. After all you are taking weapon finesse so that means your using light weapons so this would add some extra damage at a low penalty. I don't know much about the divine champion prestige class so I'm just basing this off of the rogue/barbarian combo but haflings or dwarves would be good hafling if you want more defense and dwarf if you want more offense.

EDIT: Sorry fore some reason I thought dwarves got a bonus to strength.So go witth hafling definitely hafling. Sure you take the penalty to strength and your weapons deal less damage since there small weapons but you will have a ton of ac and save. Plus If i remember correctly they had some other nice bonuses

zamiel · Post by **zamiel** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:23 am

With halfling he could only dual-wield tiny weapons with -2/-2 penalty. Small weapons are considered medium to halflings for dual wielding and stuff. The damage output will be horrible.
Also, it worths mentioning that power attack only gives damage bonus to medium/large weapons, so no dual-wielding daggers with power attack for you. Sure, you could monkey-grip longswords but it would mean -6/-6, and 3 or 6 more for power attack.
Since you want a dex-based fighter I would suggest bigger races. Small races are only good for fighters if you go 2 handed style. Humans are always a good choice, you get 1 free feat and also you can allocate 2 points from your int to other stat. And you won't have xp penalty

But I think I would go with a drow. MR is always good, gets +2 cha, and +2 ECL if you solo does not matter really much in the OC. And beside of the +6 hp and +1 BAB I cannot come up with any reason why to be R4/B6 and not R5/B5. You will get a lot of bonus skill points and +d6 sneak. Besides you could be R4/B4/BG2/DC10 to profit some more from your cha. Or be R3/B4/BG3/DC10 and if you take blackguard level 3 on feat level, you can have divine might or shield to get some more from cha

DrowishFighter · Post by **DrowishFighter** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:01 am

Yeah now that I think about it I wasn't taking damage into enough consideration. Yeah drow or human definitely. Maybe half-elf or moon elf but only if you really want the bonuses to listen and spot.

shift244 · Post by **shift244** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:25 pm

My 2 copper pieces...

On Dualing:
Actually, if you're going to dual wield anything, you're going to have dex much higher than your str. So... you should capitalize on the fact that you're not going to be dealing direct physical damage with anything you're going to be weilding. Instead, you'll be aiming for magical weapons with damage and other effects enchantments that will kill your foes for you.

A dagger 1d4 vs a shortsword 1d6 is a mere 1 dmg difference on avg, which is nothing much to shout about, especially when +1d6 acid / +1d6 electric / +1d6 sonic dmg start getting added into the equation.

Then add in other things like stun / daze / blind on hit abilities and with 7 (8 with haste) attacks/round, you're not going to be bothered with a 2 handed weapon's large damage/hit count since you're aiming on getting those damage totals from double the hits...

All dual wielders should focus on cosmic level dex (easier with small races and elves) with weapon finesse to counter the two-weapon-fighting penalties and increase your chance to land hits from all your attacks.

Classes:
Drop Barbarian, if you're going finesse, you're better dual wielding and Fighter bonus feats help alot here.

If you're going Rogue, you might want to consider Duelist. Int to AC and Rogue synergize well. Not to mention +1d6 bonus damage from light piercing weapons every 5th level rocks for finesse meleers!

Unless you're also going for high cha, Divine the Champion's Lay on Hands is not going to help much. At 10 DC levels and a +3 cha (pretty high for a non focus attribute), you're only healing 30 hp ONCE/day. Buying potions is a better option. To me, the DC is a choice for Paladin's who are foregoing spells or fighters who want extra stuff, like saves, along with the bonus feats, or a better option for any other martial build which wants to mix in Fighter at much later levels.

Not entirely related:
I would say the 2handed for small races is a strange notion. The 2handed weapons with greatest damage are beyond a small character's means to use...

Elias De vere · Post by **Elias De vere** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:41 am

thank you for the responses so far. Well, after seeing what weapon finesse does, i don't like it much. 2 big swords are for me, not small weapons. And maybe not Divine champ, but either 1 level of bard and 10 of RDD, or 10 of Frenzied berserker as i'm trying to make a conan type character. And if you are wondering, Conan was a good thief, see the first film for an example of his sneaking prowess, hence Rogue/Barbarian idea. Anyway so far, my stats are, at level 4, Str 13 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha 12. i have picked up, Dodge, 2 weapon fighting and toughness. Any other useful feats would be gratfully recieved as good ideas.

DrowishFighter · Post by **DrowishFighter** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:35 am

Ok since you won't have a shield since you're using two weapons two-weapon defense can be a good choice aswell as parry but I think thats a skill not a feat. Weapon focus will help with the penaltys early on, if you have good enough int and dex you might want to consider combat expertise, and more toughness I realize you already have it but it stacks. Thats all I can think of at the moment I'llpost more once I review my players handbook.

zamiel · Post by **zamiel** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:53 am

Elias De vere wrote:thank you for the responses so far. Well, after seeing what weapon finesse does, i don't like it much. 2 big swords are for me, not small weapons. And maybe not Divine champ, but either 1 level of bard and 10 of RDD, or 10 of Frenzied berserker as i'm trying to make a conan type character. And if you are wondering, Conan was a good thief, see the first film for an example of his sneaking prowess, hence Rogue/Barbarian idea. Anyway so far, my stats are, at level 4, Str 13 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha 12. i have picked up, Dodge, 2 weapon fighting and toughness. Any other useful feats would be gratfully recieved as good ideas.

If you try to pick up RDD, you will not need cha 12. Just make sure you start as a fighter, then 8 cha is enough. Maybe drop some more on str.
FB is an interesting idea. But I think 10 levels is more than enough of it. Power attack will not work with tiny/small weapons. So probably only 3 levels (if you want the frenzy), or just 2 for greatest cleave

However, wielding 2 medium weapons isn't the best idea imho. With -4/-4 you only gain +1 base damage (a medium weapon in your offhand instead of a short sword). To be honest the more I play the more I'm sure dual-wielding while stylish, is a waste of time.