Continue to BG'rise IWD2 - any interest among BG players?

Domi_Ash · Post by **Domi_Ash** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 7:24 pm

Heya, everyone. I am a woman with a dream of turning IWD2 into another game like BG2, but also taking the best thing that BG2 modding community offered throughout the years.

In my first bid for updating IWD2 to a BG-player needs, I added joinable NPCs. Now, I want to figure out if I want to stop there, or go into the second IWD2 restructuring project, adding the duality that BG2 had.

Basically, what I would do if I go IWD2 way, is to write and implement two alternative story-lines through the game, that will utilize the same political situation and areas that are already in the game, but will have different quests and events sequences, with different outcomes from the OC. I might do away with a few areas in certain sequences, but I do not plan to add any new ones. Mostly it's going to be about dialogue, quests etc. I'd probably add two more joinable NPCs to the 10 already existing ones as well, as the part of the package.

Is there any player interest in such an upgrade, and will it still be there in a year (which what it will probably take to get things done)?

Sytze · Post by **Sytze** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:20 am

Truth be told, I've never played IWD II, mostly because it just wasn't BG II'ish enough for me. However, I never realized there were actual NPC mods out there that give the game the feel I'm looking for. BG was such a success because of the depth, the interactions and dialogs, and of course the great modding community. if that same formula is applied to IWD II, I think it might become as durable a game as BG.

So in sum, if you're going to add quests and NPC's, I might very well buy the game and give all those fine mods a try.

wise grimwald · Post by **wise grimwald** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:43 am

Sytze wrote:Truth be told, I've never played IWD II, mostly because it just wasn't BG II'ish enough for me. However, I never realized there were actual NPC mods out there that give the game the feel I'm looking for. BG was such a success because of the depth, the interactions and dialogs, and of course the great modding community. if that same formula is applied to IWD II, I think it might become as durable a game as BG.

So in sum, if you're going to add quests and NPC's, I might very well buy the game and give all those fine mods a try.

I don't know how much things are hardwired into IWD II, but if you are going to the trouble of modding it and it is not too difficult to achieve, I would make it less linear at the same time. I realise that this might be impractical, but I really do prefer the layout of BG I in that respect.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:39 am

One word, "Yes!!!"

If you were to create such a mod, I would most certainly be interested. Interested enough that I would make the effort of replacing the IWD2 disc I somehow managed to lose.

There is such a scarcity, now, of games that have good dialogue, story and NPC interaction. If you read through the general RPG forum or GB News you'll see this sentiment echoed time and time again... I am positive there would be tremendous support for such a project.

Domi_Ash · Post by **Domi_Ash** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:44 am

I do prefer BG1 layout myself, but I do not want to destory the main story-line. I don't think it can be done successfully on a large scale, because you do have to participate in the main plot with more rigor than you do in BG1. What I can do however, is to add more variability than BG2 had, by making the PC's descisions to cardinally change his or her path through the game, and to a certain point s/he can cross between the lines, changing his/her allegience. Some surplus area also will become the 'free-roaming' ones in certain story-lines.

For example, one of the things I planned is a small adventure in Chult if the player didn't make it to the closing portal instead of 'End Game!'. And if you select one of the 2 path through the game, you will do a completely different quest in the Wandering Village skipping most of the Fell Forest sequence as obligatory portion (it will still be there as separate optional quests), but will return to Targos after that, besieging it and entering negotiations that can result in different outcomes etc. I'd also want to redo the Ice Temple Quests for both story-lines, placing more weight on the jinnie and Abishai, since most of the sisters won't be your enemies in that case, apart from Lysara who has personal loyalty to Madae (in one story-line), etc, etc, etc.

Kipi · Post by **Kipi** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:57 am

I could quote DW here as my own answer.

And, if you end up doing the mod, I'm voluntering to tester. If needed, of course

Domi_Ash · Post by **Domi_Ash** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:09 pm

Well, I want to have IWD2NPCs in beta before I start Chimeras, but I am glad to hear that there is still interest in Infinity games and that people would take a chance on IWD2 if it is expanded.

CFM · Post by **CFM** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:22 am

My vote is:

Interested = Yes-Very-Much-So-Thank-You.

Mods to the greatest game engine ever created: Hail Yes!

Kharas · Post by **Kharas** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:43 am

I think that would help the game alot! I always get tired of playing IWD2 after a while because I just start missing BG2 and become bored with all the cold killing. Not that I don't enjoy a good massacre here and there but you should atleast be able to say something while you're at it

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:20 pm

In three words: YES! YES! YESSS! Anything that'll make IWDII interesting enough to play! I bought the game years ago when it came out, realising it wouldn't be as good as the BG series but hoping for something as enjoyable as IWD. I tried two times but I just couldn't finish it, I got so bored with it. Your plans sound fine.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:57 pm

I have mixed feelings about IWD2. For me, the biggest problem isn't the lack of interesting NPC companions; the problem is that there are way too many quests, items, characters, and time-consuming puzzles. I can't remember half the things I've done or half the people I've talked to unless I keep a handwritten journal. Everything is polished, sophisticated, and coherent, and individually, everything is quite wonderful; but the problem is that I felt overwhelmed. I'm almost afraid to play the game again since it requires such a huge commitment of time and energy.

If you want to improve the game, I say go for it. Maybe I WOULD try IWD2 again if it were more like BG2. One thing that was missing from IWD2 was the sense that I had a personal enemy. To the extent that I was able to immerse myself in the game, it felt more like I was being hired to fight other people's enemies (instead of my own) and I was only doing it for the gold and the glory. I mean sure, a hero wants to protect people, but I would feel a lot more passionate if my own character was personally affected by in-game events, or if I had to struggle against a bitter rival. To take a silly example, if you changed the prologue to where the villains in the game had killed my character's family in one of their attacks, I'd be a lot more motivated to hunt them down and kill them. As it is, I feel like the only reason I need to kill them is because that's what you have to do to win the game. In other words, it feels like it's "just a game". So yes, a better roleplaying experience would be nice.

Domi_Ash · Post by **Domi_Ash** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:13 am

I actually like that line in IWD2 that the PC is the stranger to the region's problems, and that Isair and Madae have that mistique of unknown about them, so PC questions to the end if what s/he is doing is right.

Because I want a variety of motivation, I am not going to introduce the 'my native village' plotline, ie PC is from Bremen. I concur with the game's assumption that PC is a Luskaner, which is another of fine ironies of IWD2, allowing you to play a very complex character.

But I would be introducing two characters, conduits for each path, that can be more of a known entity, and whose take on Isair and Madae PC will losely select as his/hers - or s/he can stick with the OC's take on I&M. Those two characters, both from the original game, can be served to honorably, betrayed, or what have you, and through them, Isair and Madae as well. And one of them can become your personal nemesis.

I work from the assumption that OC's path is the 'right' path, that is to be taken by the shiny-good character without doubts in his/her heart. My goal, I feel is to add shadow and doubt, a human factor of liking or disliking, of trusting someone's words or charisma, not to remove it.

IWD2 hero is a mercenary, and I want to keep it that way, but I want to give him/her the personality through his/her choices and decisions, for him/her to come to dominate the plot, to make it turn one way or another, and see what consequences that will rip him/her.

Oops, sorry about the long and winding post!

Tate · Post by **Tate** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:20 pm

I've just started playing IWD2 again with your NPC mod, and it's great. Even with the few minor bugs I've had come up (talking to Diriel, or the lack of a default portrait for Valeero) it makes the game a lot more fun to play.

I would definitely be interested in another mod like the one you're describing, and I can't wait.

Domi_Ash · Post by **Domi_Ash** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:39 am

Which level do you use Valeero at (because I haven't got reports on the problems with her portrait assignment before) and what's up with Diriel? Please, report the bugs at G3, it's very important for me to get them all out.

And I am glad you are enjoying the mod

Domi_Ash · Post by **Domi_Ash** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:04 pm

Figured, I'd post an update here too:

After extensive alpha-testing IWD2NPC Project moves into Beta. Which means that you will still encounter grammar glitches, and an occasional 'never seen before' bug, but overoll, the gaming experience should not be as bumpy as during the alpha stage. If you are interested in testing it, please, check out IWD2NPC Forum at G3:

The Gibberlings Three Forums -> IWD2 NPC Project

IWD2NPC project adds 10 joinable NPCs into the original IWD2 game. Each NPC has an extensive friendship path and copious commentary on the game's events. 4 NPCs have full-scale romances with the Protagonist.

Seltzer · Post by **Seltzer** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:13 pm

I like the IWD series, but they don't compare at all to the BG/NWN series IMO. An IWD II mod would require:

* Less linearity
* More personality / humour
* More character interaction / joinable characters
* Bigger cities that actually immerse you.

Domi_Ash · Post by **Domi_Ash** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:03 am

When you say 'more joinable characters' do you mean more than ten characters I have now, or just in general?

I'd argue about the cities. Icewind Dale is not the setting that *has* large cities. Luskan section of the game could have been interesting providing the connection between Chimera and the Tower, but I think it would quickly grow into its own game. The other problem is the art, because Luskan would require a completely original art that cannot be 'pilfered' from the other games. I despise such pilfering anyway.

Actually, IWD2 has a surprising degree of personalization and humor, but lots of it is unfortunately hidden as the answers for a particular type of the PC, or drowned in such talentless sections as Ice Temple or Dragon's Eye of Too Many Levels.

Basically, if I were to start adding extra story-lines, it's at the expense of those sections that I would be doing it. But no, no new large cities. That's what BG1 was for.

But to not mislead people - I think I picked NWN2 modding over it... well, if I can get the scripting that is.

Domi_Ash · Post by **Domi_Ash** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:00 pm

Just a quick note to let you all know that IWD2NPC has now been released at G3. IWD2NPC Project adds 10 joinable NPCs into IWD2 with all the BG2-KOTOR dialogue goodness. More info is here:

G3: The IWD2 NPC Project

Philos · Post by **Philos** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:02 pm

YES,

Would love to see varying storylines and new places to visit in IWD 2. I do like AD&D 3rd edition rules and since IWD 2 uses them I really like playing it. I haven't purchased NWN 2 yet, but the other games using 3rd edition (3.5) don't seem to be anywhere as good as IWD 2 (IMHO). So I think you have a winner of an idea.

Domi_Ash · Post by **Domi_Ash** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:39 am

Actually, I specifically would *not* have wanted to add new areas. But anyway, I am working with NWN2 for the time being.