Hi! It has been so long since I played IWD II and decided to try once again. This time I want to go through the game with a four person party (not designed for power-gaming, but to be decent and fun). Any ideas/suggestions will be well appreciated. Oh, and stat placement will help too, as 16 to work with is not too many, lol, imho.
So far I been thinking of:
Paladin/Sorcerer
Barbarian/Druid
Fighter/Cleric
Monk/Rogue
Best 4 Player Party
Best 4 Player Party
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If you are not powergaming then you just have to think of what will be fun...
On the other hand if you have a tendancy to want a little bit of power my advice on those is that they are good but the spellcasters will be gimped if you take too many levels of non-casting..Monk also makes little sense with too much dilution you might just take a little rogue to get the minimum skills and a little sneak attack damage.
So Barb1DruidX (the raging bear)
Pal1(or 2)SorcerorX (the saving throw spellsword)
Fighter1ClericX (Warpriest)
Rogue?MonkX (enough Rogue for skills to be working in campaign..Probably take Tiefling and enough intelligence to minimize the need for rogue hint hint)*
*Alternatively you could just take Monk3 for speed and take the rest rogue and use weapons not fists but Barbarian would be speed and rage??
On the other hand if you have a tendancy to want a little bit of power my advice on those is that they are good but the spellcasters will be gimped if you take too many levels of non-casting..Monk also makes little sense with too much dilution you might just take a little rogue to get the minimum skills and a little sneak attack damage.
So Barb1DruidX (the raging bear)
Pal1(or 2)SorcerorX (the saving throw spellsword)
Fighter1ClericX (Warpriest)
Rogue?MonkX (enough Rogue for skills to be working in campaign..Probably take Tiefling and enough intelligence to minimize the need for rogue hint hint)*
*Alternatively you could just take Monk3 for speed and take the rest rogue and use weapons not fists but Barbarian would be speed and rage??
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
Most powerful variant of your party if you don't want to cheat (level-squat)
paladin0/sorcerer x
barbarian0/druid x
fighter0/cleric x
For monk/rogue the mix depends on your playing style.
If "best party" means you want your game to be as easy as possible make character 1 a human and the rest deep gnomes. The party balance will suffer a lot but you'll be able to cast high level mage spells long before you're supposed to be. Giving char 1 and 2 1 fighter and barbarian level will even speed this up because of the 20 percent XP penalty for multiclassing.
paladin0/sorcerer x
barbarian0/druid x
fighter0/cleric x
For monk/rogue the mix depends on your playing style.
If "best party" means you want your game to be as easy as possible make character 1 a human and the rest deep gnomes. The party balance will suffer a lot but you'll be able to cast high level mage spells long before you're supposed to be. Giving char 1 and 2 1 fighter and barbarian level will even speed this up because of the 20 percent XP penalty for multiclassing.
Thanks both for your responses.
I wanted a paladin/wizard, but there isn't enough stat points to go around, so I decided on paladin/sorcerer.
The reason for a monk is I remember having a deep gnome monk a couple of years ago and she was almost unhittable (at least at the lower levels), so she was good for swarming, lol. But, when I played Pool of Radiance I really enjoyed the barbarian rogue combination, so I am not really sure if I want to go with the monk or the barb/rogue combo.
As I am playing only 4 party members and know of experience penalities I will be using a couple ecl races to bring the average party level down.
I want my party to survive easy, but not at the expense of min/max'ing unneeded abilities (like set Int for monk to 3 to boost con to wis).
So, how about:
Aasimar Paladin 3/ Sorcerer X
Dwarf Fighter 3 (?) / Cleric X
Deep Gnome Rogue 3 / Monk X
Human Barbarian (?) / Druid X
How would you distribute the stats for this group?
I wanted a paladin/wizard, but there isn't enough stat points to go around, so I decided on paladin/sorcerer.
The reason for a monk is I remember having a deep gnome monk a couple of years ago and she was almost unhittable (at least at the lower levels), so she was good for swarming, lol. But, when I played Pool of Radiance I really enjoyed the barbarian rogue combination, so I am not really sure if I want to go with the monk or the barb/rogue combo.
As I am playing only 4 party members and know of experience penalities I will be using a couple ecl races to bring the average party level down.
I want my party to survive easy, but not at the expense of min/max'ing unneeded abilities (like set Int for monk to 3 to boost con to wis).
So, how about:
Aasimar Paladin 3/ Sorcerer X
Dwarf Fighter 3 (?) / Cleric X
Deep Gnome Rogue 3 / Monk X
Human Barbarian (?) / Druid X
How would you distribute the stats for this group?
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I recommend a Shield Dwarf Battleguard of Tempus (single-class). It's a melee-oriented Cleric that starts with 2 points in Martial Weapon, Axes right off the bat and sacrifices a little bit of fighting prowess to gain very powerful spellcasting ability.DoE wrote:Dwarf Fighter 3 (?) / Cleric X
I've only played IWDII once. I was so confused by the choices, I copped out and tailored my party according to a guide by Ken J. Egervari called The Icewind Dale 2 Ultimate Powergaming Party FAQ. It is full of indispensible advice about how to get the most out of your party without cheating. I have no idea what kmonster meant when he said that giving two of your characters fighter and barbarian levels will speed up your ability to cast high level spells long before you're supposed to be able to because of the 20 percent XP penalty for multiclassing. But it seems to me that you should choose characters who can cast high level spells as soon as possible simply by virtue of their own attributes (which applies to a single-class Shield Dward Battleguard of Tempus as well as to other characters such as a single-class Human Sorcerer, as the guide explains).
A Drow Rogue (1) / Wizard (x) also strikes me as a "perfect" character on its own merits (and the male Drow soundset is nice), but I don't see how it would fit into your party.
Just to clarify, does that mean you wish to avoid min/max-ing? If so, I can appreciate your desire to roleplay; but unfortunately, you won't notice any actual difference in the game if you set your characters' "useless stats" any higher than the absolute minimum. It will only benefit your imagination.DoE wrote:I want my party to survive easy, but not at the expense of min/max'ing unneeded abilities...
Unless you're very skilled you'll have a hard time with your party. 4 characters don't level faster than 6 in IWD2, and the 3 non-caster levels weaken your party efficiency a lot.
It's not that easy when you can only cast weak level 1-4 spells when you're supposed to be able to cast powerful level 5-6 spells.
Min/max-ing or not is just a nuisance compared to this.
It's not that easy when you can only cast weak level 1-4 spells when you're supposed to be able to cast powerful level 5-6 spells.
Min/max-ing or not is just a nuisance compared to this.
I would avoid the rogue/monk and take a rogue[2]/wizard instead. The power of this game is built on spellcasting, so with 4 characters you should maximize your opportunities to spellcast.
I second the vote for a Battleguard of Tempus. Use a dwarf, and take just one level of fighter for the extra weapon feats, and cleric levels for the rest.
I second the vote for a Battleguard of Tempus. Use a dwarf, and take just one level of fighter for the extra weapon feats, and cleric levels for the rest.
When your back is against the wall... the other guy is in a whole lotta trouble.
Some good tips guys, thanks
I did hear 4 char parties level up too quickly (giving less exp sometimes), so if you have ecl races in your 4 char party it helps at giving you more experience, is that true?
As for min/max and role playing I am building a role playing writing forum so I like to keep everything as "realistic" as possible... though I have to admit that the way character ability points are set in IWD II it does maKE it hard!!!!
I did hear 4 char parties level up too quickly (giving less exp sometimes), so if you have ecl races in your 4 char party it helps at giving you more experience, is that true?
As for min/max and role playing I am building a role playing writing forum so I like to keep everything as "realistic" as possible... though I have to admit that the way character ability points are set in IWD II it does maKE it hard!!!!
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Jedi_Sauraus
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If anything go Pal 2/Sorc XX. I would go for a plain human Sorc XX because of spells. If you have 2 spellcasters you can go Pal 2 /Sorc XX Aasimar He will have the most power eventually but early on he'll be crippled because at any given point he'll be 3 levels behind a vanilla human sorc.
Same thing applies to the cleric that 1 extra feat from the fighter level will not make a difference in any fight. Potentially having access to a higher level of spells will. Take the 4 fighter levels when you have level 9 spells not before. Dwarf makes an excellent choice with regard to no ECL penalty and better saves.
The Monk/rouge Deepgnome is a very poor idea. As with other spellcaster classes the Monk needs levels to shine. Consider taking the 3 rouge levels (and only if the 2D6 applies to your fists) after level 20, which is basically when the monk maxes out. Oh and for heaven's sake don't be a deep gnome they are considered small, you will have slower movement rate and you'll do alot less damage with your fists. Deep Gnomes and the Monk class are simply incompatible.
Same thing applies to the cleric that 1 extra feat from the fighter level will not make a difference in any fight. Potentially having access to a higher level of spells will. Take the 4 fighter levels when you have level 9 spells not before. Dwarf makes an excellent choice with regard to no ECL penalty and better saves.
The Monk/rouge Deepgnome is a very poor idea. As with other spellcaster classes the Monk needs levels to shine. Consider taking the 3 rouge levels (and only if the 2D6 applies to your fists) after level 20, which is basically when the monk maxes out. Oh and for heaven's sake don't be a deep gnome they are considered small, you will have slower movement rate and you'll do alot less damage with your fists. Deep Gnomes and the Monk class are simply incompatible.
deep gnome monk is a great decoy*
*This is important because the AI is so bad you can get every enemy targeting your ultimate AC (or very high) Spell resistant Evasion etc char...
Meanwhile Sorceror is dropping nuclear bombs on them.
*This is important because the AI is so bad you can get every enemy targeting your ultimate AC (or very high) Spell resistant Evasion etc char...
Meanwhile Sorceror is dropping nuclear bombs on them.
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
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Jedi_Sauraus
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the +4 racial bonus is not the end all be all for an ultimate AC char. It's far better IMO better to take a wild elf, he still has access to shield by taking sorc levels but is not crippled offensively and does not have -3 ECL penalty. I've seen a post recently where it's possible to get 80AC and the author even said that what he wrote was not everything.
I remember playing the Deep Gnome Monk a few years ago and she was unhittable (at least until halfway through the game, I quit playing it for some reason then) because of her AC and I used her for "swarming" the enemy, it is why I thought of her again to use. I also heard the ECL races are a good idea when playing four or less character parties because they keep your average party level low enough so you continue getting experience.
Without min/maxing too badly, what stats should this party start with?
Aasimar Pal 2 / Sorcerer X <---- should he dual wield long swords???
Shield Dwarf Cleric of Tempus
Human Barb (1 or 2?) Druid X
Drow Rogue 1 (?) Wizard X
Without min/maxing too badly, what stats should this party start with?
Aasimar Pal 2 / Sorcerer X <---- should he dual wield long swords???
Shield Dwarf Cleric of Tempus
Human Barb (1 or 2?) Druid X
Drow Rogue 1 (?) Wizard X
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Aasimar pal2/sorc 10-14-16-12-8-20
Dwarf Battleguard 14-14-18-8-18-6
Human barb1/druid 10-14-18-8-18-8
Drow rogue1/wizard 10-18-16-20-8-8
I'd make the pal/sorc a human with stats 10-14-18-8-8-18 to get the spells faster. I wouldn't waste feats for dualwielding on a caster. Spell focusses and elemental feats are far more efficient.
The battleguard will totally own the the rest of the party. You might consider reducing his strength (so he can't wear heavy armor) or dex (so he can't use rapid shot) for party balance reasons.
Start char 3 as druid (maximal concentration and 10 spellcraft (for scion of storms) are the important skills) and don't ever take more than 1 barbarian level. If you want a third skillpoint for roleplaying reasons take 10 int and 16 con.
Start char 4 as rogue for the skillpoints. Taking only 1 rogue level yields the strongest mix, but since he's only a backup caster it's not that important.
Dwarf Battleguard 14-14-18-8-18-6
Human barb1/druid 10-14-18-8-18-8
Drow rogue1/wizard 10-18-16-20-8-8
I'd make the pal/sorc a human with stats 10-14-18-8-8-18 to get the spells faster. I wouldn't waste feats for dualwielding on a caster. Spell focusses and elemental feats are far more efficient.
The battleguard will totally own the the rest of the party. You might consider reducing his strength (so he can't wear heavy armor) or dex (so he can't use rapid shot) for party balance reasons.
Start char 3 as druid (maximal concentration and 10 spellcraft (for scion of storms) are the important skills) and don't ever take more than 1 barbarian level. If you want a third skillpoint for roleplaying reasons take 10 int and 16 con.
Start char 4 as rogue for the skillpoints. Taking only 1 rogue level yields the strongest mix, but since he's only a backup caster it's not that important.
That's incorrect for IWD2. Size doesn't matter for movement speed or fist damage in this game.Jedi_Sauraus wrote: Oh and for heaven's sake don't be a deep gnome they are considered small, you will have slower movement rate and you'll do alot less damage with your fists. Deep Gnomes and the Monk class are simply incompatible.
Monks and deep gnomes aren't incompatible. In fact, they are one of the best race/class combinations out there, and arguably the best race for a min-maxed monk.
I don't think I'd use one in a 4-person party, though. This game rewards those who cast spells and dish out damage fast, and a DG monk optimized for decoy work can do neither.
One of my favourite parties featured a DG monk with 2 sorcs, a Morninglord, a Rogue/Wizard, and a Barb/Druid. The spell devastation was incredible.
Oh, there's a topic?
I've come full circle and I'm not really a fan of pal/sorcs anymore, unless the pally levels are taken later. A pureclass human sorc has no flaws as a spellbomber and levels up quickly. In a party of only 4, a late-blooming spellcaster will hurt your efficiency. The goblin warrens are MUCH easier if you can obtain Fireball before the end of them. The last thing you want your best spellcaster doing is dual-wielding. If not casting or shooting, it should be running.
I'd make the sorc a human, skip the pally levels (just make it LG if you want to retain the option for way later in the game), and put a little more into Int.
I don't think I'd use one in a 4-person party, though. This game rewards those who cast spells and dish out damage fast, and a DG monk optimized for decoy work can do neither.
One of my favourite parties featured a DG monk with 2 sorcs, a Morninglord, a Rogue/Wizard, and a Barb/Druid. The spell devastation was incredible.
Oh, there's a topic?
I've come full circle and I'm not really a fan of pal/sorcs anymore, unless the pally levels are taken later. A pureclass human sorc has no flaws as a spellbomber and levels up quickly. In a party of only 4, a late-blooming spellcaster will hurt your efficiency. The goblin warrens are MUCH easier if you can obtain Fireball before the end of them. The last thing you want your best spellcaster doing is dual-wielding. If not casting or shooting, it should be running.
I'd make the sorc a human, skip the pally levels (just make it LG if you want to retain the option for way later in the game), and put a little more into Int.
When your back is against the wall... the other guy is in a whole lotta trouble.
Thanks again all.
The reason I thought giving a level of "something" to each character was a good idea is because of the extra exp my party of four would receive as compared to a 6 party (it is why I also chose ecl levels). After more thought I was leaning towards this party:
Ranger ? /Cleric of Tempus (dual wielding axes and maces/flails)
Fighter
Monk (to attrack a swarm)
Rogue 1 /Wizard
Barb 1 /Druid
The reason I thought giving a level of "something" to each character was a good idea is because of the extra exp my party of four would receive as compared to a 6 party (it is why I also chose ecl levels). After more thought I was leaning towards this party:
Ranger ? /Cleric of Tempus (dual wielding axes and maces/flails)
Fighter
Monk (to attrack a swarm)
Rogue 1 /Wizard
Barb 1 /Druid
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If you have a monk in your party, dual-wielding is not the most efficient combat style for your other characters. The monk will generally take the role of meatshield, and it's better for other characters to attack in melee with 2-handed weapons, so that they are farther away and the enemies are less likely to switch their targets away from the monk.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a pureclass Battleguard. A word of caution about druids - the shapeshifting has a lot of bugs in it, so don't rely on it. I've got the mod granting different shapes and more spells, but without it I wouldn't take a druid in every party.
I'm a little unclear on exactly what your objective is with this party, since the title is "Best 4 Player Party" but you aren't going to min-max and you seem to be re-thinking the party numbers.
Personally, I find spells fun. I also find that your garden-variety warrior can't stand up to a pounding very well without min-maxed stats or significant spellcaster support. I'm not too fond of pureclass fighters, since they don't have any "special" abilities and there aren't any useful skills for them to take.
The newest edition of your party is sub-optimal. Monks, even deep gnomes, need a tremendous amount of spell support to reach near-invulnerable status. Much of it needs to come from arcane spells, and you've only got one arcane caster (who is also filling the rogue role). I also don't think you need a fighter if you've already got a monk and a Battleguard.
I'd still take a sorceror. The ability to choose your spells in combat is a tremendous advantage, as long as you pick useful spells to learn.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a pureclass Battleguard. A word of caution about druids - the shapeshifting has a lot of bugs in it, so don't rely on it. I've got the mod granting different shapes and more spells, but without it I wouldn't take a druid in every party.
I'm a little unclear on exactly what your objective is with this party, since the title is "Best 4 Player Party" but you aren't going to min-max and you seem to be re-thinking the party numbers.
Personally, I find spells fun. I also find that your garden-variety warrior can't stand up to a pounding very well without min-maxed stats or significant spellcaster support. I'm not too fond of pureclass fighters, since they don't have any "special" abilities and there aren't any useful skills for them to take.
The newest edition of your party is sub-optimal. Monks, even deep gnomes, need a tremendous amount of spell support to reach near-invulnerable status. Much of it needs to come from arcane spells, and you've only got one arcane caster (who is also filling the rogue role). I also don't think you need a fighter if you've already got a monk and a Battleguard.
I'd still take a sorceror. The ability to choose your spells in combat is a tremendous advantage, as long as you pick useful spells to learn.
When your back is against the wall... the other guy is in a whole lotta trouble.
lol, yeah I seen I wrote five members when the topic is about four characters. The reason I looked at five is that I asked about 4 characters levelling faster than 6 and thus receiving less experience, and read somewhere that ecl's help with this when you play with 4 characters. As no one really confirmed that here I thought maybe it wasn't true, so looked at five characters. Wow, my reasoning is just... like... way out there...
The ranger/cleric I decided on was from a party I had in IWD, and loved that character. The druids spells too I remember were a life saver: entangle + insect plague...
so how about:
Human Ranger 1 /Cleric
Dwarf Fighter
Human Druid
Drow or Tiefling? Rogue (1) / Wizard
Will that party level too fast and I end up not getting experience with certain parts of the game?
The ranger/cleric I decided on was from a party I had in IWD, and loved that character. The druids spells too I remember were a life saver: entangle + insect plague...
so how about:
Human Ranger 1 /Cleric
Dwarf Fighter
Human Druid
Drow or Tiefling? Rogue (1) / Wizard
Will that party level too fast and I end up not getting experience with certain parts of the game?
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The dynamic fighting XP calculation works the following way:
Your rounded down average party level is compared to the challenge rating of the monster you defeat. The lower your party level and the higher the monster CR level the more XP you get.
If your party is more than 7 levels higher than the monster's CR you don't get any XP at all.
This happens very often, even with a party of 6 you'll often get to a point where you don't get any fighting XP until you face harder monsters in the next chapter.
Therefore it doesn't matter if you have 4 or 6 characters, your rounded down average party level will always be the same at certain points in the game.
Many players are annoyed about getting no fighting XP in a party of 6, in a party of 4 this will happen even more often.
An example: At the end of the game your rounded down average party level will be 16, no matter what your party consists of.
You can have 4 level 16 humans or 1 level 16 tiefling and 5 level 17 humans or 4 level 15 deep gnomes, 1 level 17 aasimar and 1 level 18 dwarf for example.
At very early parts of the game a small party will level faster, but the dynamic XP calculation will nullify this advantage very soon in chapter 1.
Your rounded down average party level is compared to the challenge rating of the monster you defeat. The lower your party level and the higher the monster CR level the more XP you get.
If your party is more than 7 levels higher than the monster's CR you don't get any XP at all.
This happens very often, even with a party of 6 you'll often get to a point where you don't get any fighting XP until you face harder monsters in the next chapter.
Therefore it doesn't matter if you have 4 or 6 characters, your rounded down average party level will always be the same at certain points in the game.
Many players are annoyed about getting no fighting XP in a party of 6, in a party of 4 this will happen even more often.
An example: At the end of the game your rounded down average party level will be 16, no matter what your party consists of.
You can have 4 level 16 humans or 1 level 16 tiefling and 5 level 17 humans or 4 level 15 deep gnomes, 1 level 17 aasimar and 1 level 18 dwarf for example.
At very early parts of the game a small party will level faster, but the dynamic XP calculation will nullify this advantage very soon in chapter 1.