green dragon breath

gojirasan · Post by **gojirasan** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:07 pm

I am probing for weaknesses of the green dragon in watcher's keep. I figured this is supposed to be some kind of chlorine gas area effect spell-like ability but I cannot figure out any counter for it. The poison icon comes up after the breath attack, but wearing the periapt of proof against poison does not protect against it. Although it doesn't protect against cloudkill either. I wonder if the ring of gaxx or the thieves hood would do any better. I haven't gone up against Kangaxx yet so I don't have the ring of gaxx to try out. I could create_item() it I guess. The 5th level arcane spell protection from acid also provides no protection. So it is not acid breath either. Clearly it is not fire based or cold based. The breath is in fact green. So I am puzzled. Is it considered to be pure magic based? I have tried earth, fire, and air elementals (not lesser), nishruus, aerial servants, clay golems, and myself as a polymorphed mustard jelly and all are virtually insta-killed with around 100hp of damage per breath attack. I have also tried the 5th level arcane spell spell immunity with each school (2 at a time) with no luck.

Note that I am not looking for general dragon killing strategies here. There are enough discussions of those already. I am just wondering if anyone knows anything about this specific dragon or green dragons in general in terms of immunities (poison is one) and weaknesses, and what exactly his breath weapon is supposed to be (chlorine gas?) and what might provide protection from it in the way that scrolls, potions, and spells of protection from fire can counter firkraag's breath weapon (until he dispels or reduces it).

I am thinking about trying a protection from poison scroll or the ring of gaxx next. Maybe the green breath is considered poison but for some reason the periapt doesn't protect from it. It can't even protect against cloudkill after all and that is definitely considered a poison based attack.

I have read XYX's excellent spell guide. Has anyone compiled a reference for the tougher Baldur's Gate monsters and their respective weaknesses and immunities? That would answer this question and many more.

Edit: tried ring of gaxx, a protection from poison scroll, and the thieves hood. No dice on the ring of gaxx or the protection scroll, but the thieves hood worked! Total immunity to green dragon breath. Wow. So I guess it must be poison. But if that's the case then why don't the periapt, the ring, or the protection scroll do anything? They are supposed to provide "immunity" to poison.

Note that the thieves hood is supposed to be a TOB only item since it officially requires Cespenar and not Cromwell to make it. It is only available from within SoA if you have the mod that allows Cromwell to forge some of Cespenar's items (and have TOB installed). And even then it requires a sacrifice of 10,000 gold and a ring of invisibility. I'm not sure it's worth it.

Saros · Post by **Saros** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:29 pm

The green dragon breath is indeed poison breath. Unfortunately, in the vanilla unmodded game, poison protection, either from green protection scrolls or items like Ring of Gaxx, doesn't protect versus poison damage, just from taking subsequent damage from poisoning. For instance, if your character is posioned by a Spider while wearing the Ring of Gaxx, he will not get subsequent poison damage from the spider's venom. But if your character walks under a CloudKill which deals poison damage, he'll get full damage from the cloud.

I personally recommend installing the original patch and, in addition, a nice fixpack, like BG2 Fixpack or G3 Fixpack. Not both, they're not compatible, just one of those. Each of those fixes the items that grant permanent protection from Poison to actually negate any kind of poison damage like Cloudkill, Green Dragon Breath and so on.

And if you don't want to install the fixpacks, avoid being caught in Green Dragon's Breath. Or kill the dragon quickly. Anyway, on lvl 5 of WK your party magicians must have the ability to kill any dragon in a round.

gojirasan · Post by **gojirasan** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:05 pm

Thanks Saros. An incredibly quick answer. This forum is amazing. I think I do have the BG2 fixpack installed. Or maybe it was just the tweakpack. I also have baldurdash installed. I find all these different modpacks confusing. Too bad they don't all play nice with each other.

And about my level. Actually my main char is an L 9/12 kensai/mage and my other arcane caster is Edwin at level 13. I am still in chapter 2. I have yet to kill any dragon. I spent a good 5 hours trying to kill Firkraag though at level 9 or so. I didn't even get close (except by feebleminding him before he goes hostile which is about as much fun as ctrl-y). I even tried the cheesy cloudkill wand from a distance but it just got him down to badly injured and then he healed himself.

After that I decided to shelve my dragon slaying ambitions until the end of SoA. The combination of a devastating physical attack (30-50hp/round?), powerful magic attacks (breath weapon + spells), the dreaded wing buffet disabling/damaging attack, and high magic resistance make dragons seem nearly unbeatable to me. I'd take a demi-lich or adamantium golem any day over a dragon. At least at low (chapter 2) levels. I can hardly imagine how hard the Tactics improved dragons would be. I'm just sort of toying with the green dragon without really expecting to beat him. Although now that I found a weakness I will give it a serious try. I'm off to check on my mod pack situation immediately. It's so annoying when item descriptions are inaccurate. Is this fix specifically listed in the mod packs?

Saros · Post by **Saros** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:23 am

Well, I personally have experience with the G3 fixpack. But I cannot give you the link, since I've forgotten it.

If your party wizards are at such a low level, then try running Mirror Image + SI: Abjuration and Divination. The Mirror Image should effectively protect your wizards vs Dragon Breath.

You might wanna create some decoys too, which to occupy the dragon's attention. I think Kitthix is immune to poison, give him a try.

Dragons are quite easy actually. Firkraag can be bested with a 9-lvl party anytime. Saladrex is more tricky, his AI is far better. Unfortunately, I haven't tried the green dragon with a low-level party, since even in chapter 2 I go to lvl 5 of WK with all of my party having HLAs, but I doubt he's that hard.

Thrifalas · Post by **Thrifalas** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:19 am

Fun thing to do WK in chapter 2, that'd certainly prove a challenge.

I've never spent more than a few rounds on the dragon since I'm always pretty highlevel while doing WK... I think I'll give it a go with my trio that's still in chapter 2.

Will be fun to see how far I'll get.

The things that comes to mind when reading your posts are the highlevel spells Pro-Elem/Pro-Energy, which I think should protect against poison damage. Can't say for sure though, might be worth trying out.

Another thing, since his breath should be considered a breath attack, have you tried raising your saving throws? The Belt of Inertial Barrier provides a neat +5 against breath attacks, combine that with the Luck spell and you might stand a better chance.

And Firkraag can be bested by a level 5 sorc, although it requires a little cheese. ;D

Do keep us up to date on the fight, I'm interested to see how this turns out.

Saros · Post by **Saros** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:35 am

I'd put it differently. WK in chapter 2 provides quite the challenge, provided you go there as soon as possible. Because when I finish WK in chapter 2, it certainly feels too easy with all my characters gaining HLAs on the third lvl. Style of play.

The Belt of Inertial Barrier indeed grants saving trhrow bonus vs breat attack. Meaning that if you wear it, you'll probably get only half damage from Breath attacks. Still not enough to survive, if you ask me.

Protection from the Elements is a seventh-level spell which in chapter 2 cannot be otained very easy. The only way to do so is actually kill Amnish Guards&Cowled Wizards. The wizards do sometimes drop a scroll, but keep in mind - not very often. And as far as I noticed, he said that his highest-lvl mage is Edwin, lvl 13, which is still not enough to cast 7th lvl spells. Also, Pro Elements protects only versus Acid, Electricity, Fire and Cold.

Protection from Energy is more likely to be dropped as random treasure, compared to Protection from the Elements. However, ProEnergy is an eight level spell and requires a wizard of lvl 16 or higher to cast. Also, the spell doesn't protect versus poison, but vs everything else - Magic Energy, Fire, Cold, Electricity and Acid.

The only spell that grants protection from poison to some extent is Armor of Faith. Of course, the protection granted is minor.

Celacena · Post by **Celacena** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:11 am

I did that dragon a few days ago - no problem at all.

the key thing with dragons overall, is that you can deal as much damage as you like and next moment they heal and you are back to square 1. the trick is either to do a massive amount of damage in one go - so large and fast that the dragon does not have time to heal OR to disrupt the dragon so that it fails when it tries to cast.

making the party invisible gives the initiative to them and that is often important with dragons, as they can usually buff themselves pretty well.

I find that jaheira's insect plague works very well in hampering dragons' casting - I usually take the precaution of lowering MR first - another available technique is to use the wands of spell strike that you have picked up and de-buff the dragon ready for a spell attack. I must admit that having Saverok whacking the dragon with a +3 two-handed sword and by kensai-thief dual wielding a katana and longsword did keep the damage level pretty high. we bludgeoned the dragon to death whilst Viconia was throwing holy smite into the melee.

I have been nipping into WK alongside the main missions.

now Saverok has the +5 Psion blade and HLAs including greater whirlwind - some butt is going to be well kicked for badness!

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:39 am

Saros wrote:Well, I personally have experience with the G3 fixpack. But I cannot give you the link, since I've forgotten it.

Googling will get it, and I believe it's in our mod sticky thread, too. But try this, in any case.

Jedi_Sauraus · Post by **Jedi_Sauraus** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:08 pm

First I want to ask how is your your only level 12 in watchers keep level 5 ?? thats only 1 million exp/player ?? killing a dragon except for firkraag and thraxxsissila or whatever he's called it a tricky proposition at those levels. The ToB dragons have better AI in general.

If you have a level 14 Cleric gate is surpringly usefull at least against firkraag it should work against this dragon as well

If not, space your party out so only one person at a time ever gets hit by dragon breath, buff everybody with potions scrolls spells ect until you can't see their portrait anymore and have your mages use minor sequencers to finish the dragon off with magic missles.

At that level I wish you the best of luck :laugh: IMO you should go back and finish the rest of the keep or other quests in SoA.

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:21 pm

There's also a useful item in the Iitem mod, which you can get here. It's a well-balanced item mod that adds both purchaseable loot and plunder; very logically distributed. One of the things you can find in a major quest, as I recall, is the Amulet of Firm Standing, that protects against dragon breath. Nice thing to have when you go up against the big fellas.

wise grimwald · Post by **wise grimwald** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:42 am

Saros wrote:I'd put it differently. WK in chapter 2 provides quite the challenge, provided you go there as soon as possible. Because when I finish WK in chapter 2, it certainly feels too easy with all my characters gaining HLAs on the third lvl. Style of play.

The Belt of Inertial Barrier indeed grants saving trhrow bonus vs breat attack. Meaning that if you wear it, you'll probably get only half damage from Breath attacks. Still not enough to survive, if you ask me.

Protection from the Elements is a seventh-level spell which in chapter 2 cannot be otained very easy. The only way to do so is actually kill Amnish Guards&Cowled Wizards. The wizards do sometimes drop a scroll, but keep in mind - not very often. And as far as I noticed, he said that his highest-lvl mage is Edwin, lvl 13, which is still not enough to cast 7th lvl spells. Also, Pro Elements protects only versus Acid, Electricity, Fire and Cold.

Protection from Energy is more likely to be dropped as random treasure, compared to Protection from the Elements. However, ProEnergy is an eight level spell and requires a wizard of lvl 16 or higher to cast. Also, the spell doesn't protect versus poison, but vs everything else - Magic Energy, Fire, Cold, Electricity and Acid.

The only spell that grants protection from poison to some extent is Armor of Faith. Of course, the protection granted is minor.

When I went in in chapter two, this is one fight that I couldn't win. Then my game got corrupted and I had to start again. However I intend to this time. I have the staff of the magi that might help me somewhat. However I have a few suggestions which might help you.
1: Leave it till later. Go down to Lum's machine, and buff your attributes.
2: Get the answers wrong to boost your experience. You might get the wrong effect from getting the answer wrong, but you can then reload and try again.
The experience that you can get is quite staggering. 100,000 points per time.

gojirasan · Post by **gojirasan** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:06 am

Just want to thank everyone for replying and make a few more comments. The reason I am at WK so early in the game is because I am trying to play with an Avenger(L12)/Fighter dual classed character in my party. In order to dual to a fighter (without cheating) she has to bump her strength up by one, which I was able to do with Lum's machine. I don't plan to finish WK until near the end of the game, but I think I can take the green dragon. At least I will try for a while. I really do enjoy trying to beat enemies that are very difficult (for me) to defeat at my current level. If it doesn't require at least 5 or 6 reloads to win it is too easy. Needless to say, I had a lot of trouble and reloads against the chromatic demon, Tahazzar, and a few others. But it really was great fun. I do play on 'core' BTW. I also have that 'set all creature HP to max' from BG2tweaks installed although I don't know if that really maxes out the HP rolls for all monsters.

I uninstalled/reinstalled and then installed BG2fix (it wasn't installed before) and BG2tweaks (which I did have installed). Now the periapt does provide complete immunity against green dragon breath, which makes the fight a lot more interesting. It might almost be too easy but he still has a devastating physical attack and can cast spells including insect plague. It is funny to be on the other end of one of those insect plagues. One of my favorite spells in the game. I am always spamming it against casters. Anyway, I think this is going to be a really fun dragon to fight. For the moment I have left WK to go get kangaxx's ring. Also, one of my favorite battles in the game. I really like to savor these battles since they are the best part of the game for me. Gotta love a foe that can spam infinite ranged imprisonment spells at your whole party and is almost completely immune to magic or lower than +4 weapons. Although I think you can go down there with only one party member at a time (IIRC) which makes it almost too easy.

Oh and about Lum's machine. I am a little bit uncomfortable with using it for the XP. I did do it but I am thinking that I might regret it later. I limited myself to just a few times. It just feels too much like cheating. Especially so early in the game when 100,000XP is a HUGE amount. Although the Deck of Many Things can get you 1000,000XP which I think would just totally unbalance the game. I couldn't figure out a way to get the deck (without cheating) anyway.

Being too powerful too early is a problem for me. I used to make a beeline for that cloak of mirroring (or whatever it's called), but I found that once I had that item I tended not to play the game for much longer. I am glad that it got at least somewhat nerfed in later patches. Way too powerful an item for SoA IMO. All the battles against casters just become too easy, like playing in God mode or something. I hope doing WK so early doesn't have a similar effect.

WK has been hugely enjoyable to play in ch02. I *highly* recommend it to those of you who haven't tried it. It really is an interesting and fun dungeon at low levels. Although you should probably equip your melee characters with decent magic weapons first. You could probably win without them but I think it is more fun to have them so that you can vary your fighting style more. Normal weapons are practically useless in WK.

Kael · Post by **Kael** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:59 pm

Just a little sidenote from the first post and some answers. Maybe I am wrong but I thought that their was no POISON dragons, only ACID dragons. If there actually is both POISON and ACID dragons, which are they? Shadow and Green respectively or are there others/more?

Thanks for help.

wise grimwald · Post by **wise grimwald** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:21 am

I agree with Gojirasen's last post 100%. Watcher's Keep before chapter 2 is indeed great fun, but it does spoil the rest of the game. Getting 100000 experience points from Lum's machine does indeed seem like cheating, even if it isn't. I think that the program writers didn't think that anyone would have the temerity to take it on in chapter 2. What they should have done is dish out a variable amount of experience depending on level or the chapter you are in, but they didn't. Any modders know how to change that? I suppose though that having done watcher's keep, the rest of the game will inevitably be too easy.

Saros · Post by **Saros** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:52 am

Kael wrote:Just a little sidenote from the first post and some answers. Maybe I am wrong but I thought that their was no POISON dragons, only ACID dragons. If there actually is both POISON and ACID dragons, which are they? Shadow and Green respectively or are there others/more?

Thanks for help.

The Shadow Dragon breath isn't acid. It's Blinding and Level Draining(4), but that's all. Shadow Dragon scales provide prot vs Acid, but have nothing to do with his breath damage. The Green Dragon breath is poisonous.

In fact, I cannot remember if there's even a single Acid-breathing dragon in the unmodded game.

Kael · Post by **Kael** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:02 am

Saros

Thanks for info!