Wait, what?

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:37 am

Lady Dragonfly wrote:The ultimate irony: unfinished and bugged, yet better than its more polished predecessor. Not that I approve of sloppy job.

Couldn't disagree more, I found it much worse. All a matter of personal taste and playing style preference I guess, but in my opinion Obsidian haven't got a clue what 'Role Playing game' means.They also have an infuriating habit of foisting NPCs on you without you being able to do anything about it.

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:47 am

That goes for both games.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:01 am

Tricky wrote:That goes for both games.

Both KOTOR games do you mean? If so, I have to agree in part regarding foisting NPCs on you. It infuriated me the way that you're forced to use Bastila on the Leviathan just so she could jump in to rescue Malak as I was about to kill him. But IMO, it was even worse in KOTOR 2. I might have been persuaded that it was all down to Lucas Arts handing them both the script and insisting they kpt strictly to the storyline, after all Bioware weren't anywhere near as bad in the BG series. However NWN2 finished Obsidian for me, no excuse for forcing NPCs on you the way they did in that game, with no regard to role-playing or alignment, totally unacceptable to me.

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:13 am

Hm. Yeah. I didn't really think about it until now, but I feel I agree. Same feelings toward NWN2, although I haven't gotten too far with the expansion yet too know if they do it again (I promised myself wait another expansion or two until the prestige classes start making sense).

swcarter · Post by **swcarter** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:30 pm

galraen wrote:However NWN2 finished Obsidian for me, no excuse for forcing NPCs on you the way they did in that game, with no regard to role-playing or alignment, totally unacceptable to me.

Geez, in NWN2 you get a party of four, and sometimes you have to take one specific companion with you for one particular task. Galraen sounds like Obsidian used to beat him up in high school.

SWC

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:14 pm

swcarter wrote:Galraen sounds like Obsidian used to beat him up in high school.

And the SYM award for best use of allegory goes to..

I think he does have a point. These games all hint at the possibility that you may not like having them around, at which point the npc's suddenly go into ultra-annoying mode to join you anyway. Even if you leave the Tiefling to her assailants, even if you scold her and make it clear you're about to toss her aside, even then she somehow still ends up in your 'possession'. Must be the Stockholm syndrome or something.

One of the first things I ever did in Baldur's Gate was to kill Imoen because I couldn't figure out how to get her out of my party. Oh, 'and I was evil anyway'. Why not?

Lady Dragonfly · Post by **Lady Dragonfly** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:55 pm

Well, I've already mentioned both KOTORs are not exactly my cup of tea. I played them once. They were mildly entertaining and I liked a couple of NPC but you cannot pay me enough to replay these kiddie games. However, if I were held at gunpoint by fanboys, there is a chance that I would've chosen KOTOR2.

I share your opinion about NWN2, Galraen and Tricky. Feargus Urquhart shapeshifted... Do you have reason to believe that the brilliant idea of foisting extremely annoying NPC on your char originated within Obsidian?

@Tricky

Would you like a spoiler?

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:31 am

A spoiler? Sure?

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:06 am

swcarter wrote:Geez, in NWN2 you get a party of four, and sometimes you have to take one specific companion with you for one particular task. Galraen sounds like Obsidian used to beat him up in high school.

SWC

Er, have you actually played the game SWC? One particular task? Sure, if by one particular task you mean the whole game! First you get stuck with a Psycho Chaotic Neutral Dwarf (with delusional desires to be a monk!!!), then a CN Tiefling followed by tree huggers, evil mages/paladins (your choice as to which is unacceptable) etc., etc..

Faust · Post by **Faust** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:48 pm

swcarter wrote:Geez, in NWN2 you get a party of four, and sometimes you have to take one specific companion with you for one particular task.

Yeah, I don't particularly have a problem with this style of NPC design. You, essentially, get to chose who you interact seriously with and it enables NPCs to play a bigger role in a game than they otherwise would, by being part of a scripted event or plot point. My estimate is that if you don't like this model of NPC design and utilization, you probably won't care for any Bioware and Obsidian games. So, it just means their respective game flavors won't be to your taste and you should avoid them entirely. But, others actually do find their method of dealing with and crafting NPCs entertaining. So, if this model is employed in Alpha Protocol, I think it would be fine.

swcarter wrote:Galraen sounds like Obsidian used to beat him up in high school.

And, by the way, that made me laugh....

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:54 pm

I like NPCs and group members in my CRPGs (makes it feel less cheesy IMO with a team of "hero's" compared to the one ultimate hero doing it all), right back to the Fallout, Baldur's Gate etc style.
Didn't care much for how they were done in NwN 1, with the "henchmen" NPCs, but did feel NwN2 was a good step beyond NwN1 in that aspect.

So while it was annoying being forced to sometimes carry specific NPCs along for some specific areas (especially that annoying priest), I do think they were modelled quite decent in NwN2, and some of the "personalities" were made quite well - IMO.

Lady Dragonfly · Post by **Lady Dragonfly** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:09 pm

Faust wrote: So, if this model is employed in Alpha Protocol, I think it would be fine.

Er... Is Alpha Protocol going to be a party-based RPG??? Hmm... A spy traveling with an entourage of bodyguards, lawyers and hairstylists? You know, I actually like the idea.

Tricky wrote:A spoiler? Sure?

Yes, nice little spoiler. Didn't you say...

...although I haven't gotten too far with the expansion yet too know if they do it again

I can divulge the secret, for a price.

The mandatory unholy matrimony between PC and NPC, even temporary, is abomination, imo. Isn't that enough to endure annoying relatives and co-workers in real life?

DesR85 · Post by **DesR85** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:26 pm

Lady Dragonfly wrote:Er... Is Alpha Protocol going to be a party-based RPG??? Hmm... A spy traveling with an entourage of bodyguards, lawyers and hairstylists? You know, I actually like the idea.

The what's the point of being a stealth game if the main character have 3 others tagging along with him? Wouldn't it be more like Rainbow Six?

Lady Dragonfly · Post by **Lady Dragonfly** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:44 pm

DesR85 wrote:The what's the point of being a stealth game if the main character have 3 others tagging along with him? Wouldn't it be more like Rainbow Six?

Make it six then. Add a PR specialist.
The party:
One Spy (PC), one Bodyguard (tank), one Lawyer, one PR pro and two Hairstylists.

Brother None · Post by **Brother None** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:11 pm

Apropos, back on topic, I've leafed through the Game Informer article...

...

...what a bunch of PR tripe. Basically they're making an Action RPG with the same kind of exploration and choices that many RPGs have had before (but GI calls it "innovative", of course). A Mass Effect rip-off in another setting, basically.

I'm not going to condemn the game based on the GI article, though. I'm going to try and pretend the GI article never happened and just wait for other media, in the hope GI just got it profoundly wrong in the way only they can.

But boy, does it look bad.

BlueSky · Post by **BlueSky** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:41 pm

Lady Dragonfly wrote:Make it six then. Add a PR specialist.
The party:
One Spy (PC), one Bodyguard (tank), one Lawyer, one PR pro and two Hairstylists.

Sort of a Mission Impossible meets the Ocean's Eleven.....:laugh:..

And hey developers using black and red as the majority of the game's color palette, is not the way to go,
the colorblind among us...:angel

eople like me...find it very frustrating to play these games..

Lady Dragonfly · Post by **Lady Dragonfly** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:52 pm

Brother None wrote:...but GI calls it "innovative", of course). A Mass Effect rip-off in another setting, basically.

Allrighty then - ...two Gay Hairstylists.

DesR85 · Post by **DesR85** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:54 pm

BlueSky wrote:Sort of a Mission Impossible meets the Ocean's Eleven.....:laugh:..

Then they already broke Rule #1: This is a solo operation.

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:26 am

This is turning into SYM..

Lady Dragonfly wrote:The mandatory unholy matrimony between PC and NPC, even temporary, is abomination, imo. Isn't that enough to endure annoying relatives and co-workers in real life?

So.. essentially what you're saying isn't so much a spoiler for MotB as it is for real life?

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:38 am

Brother None wrote:Apropos, back on topic, I've leafed through the Game Informer article...

...

...what a bunch of PR tripe. Basically they're making an Action RPG with the same kind of exploration and choices that many RPGs have had before (but GI calls it "innovative", of course). A Mass Effect rip-off in another setting, basically.

I'm not going to condemn the game based on the GI article, though. I'm going to try and pretend the GI article never happened and just wait for other media, in the hope GI just got it profoundly wrong in the way only they can.

But boy, does it look bad.

Elements are always innovative when taken [stolen] and put into ones own game