OK BG vets (and interested parties):
As I said when's the earliest I can take my party to spellhold? I mean and still be able to complete everything including the drow house Jlaet or whatever (and the liches etc...though probably not the Silver Dragon).
Also what items (or key spells/skills/profs) will I need if that is a factor... (not top items I am talking minimum sans reload fest)
Party (and current levels)
Sorceror = me - 10th level - Bracers AC6 staff +1 ring of cha ring of prot +1
Jan - 9th/9th illusionist thief - cloak prot +1 100 locks/traps/det illusion
Jaheira - 8th/9th fighter/druid (going staff/spear) 1 pip staff 2 pip club - mail of the dead ring prot +1 girdle hill giant str Staff of Rhynn +4
Anomen - 7th/8th fighter/cleric (going DW flail/X) 2 pip hammer/mace (no flail) - mace +2 platemail
Valygar - 8th stalker (going DW katana/scimitar(or later ToB other)) - his original gear (no backstab weapon yet but I got a +1 wakishazi once he is scimitar proficient)
Yoshimo - 11th Bountyhunter dualed to 8th level fighter - 2 pips longsword 4 pips shortbow (with GM patch) - Tuigan bow +1, Longsword +1, Platemail +1
I'm taking Yoshi for fun and to get his heart. Then I'll pick up Imoen in spellhold. Later I'll take Haer Dalis after Spellhold...
Don't worry about spoiling my game. I have played through once and this thread is labeled spoilers...
The sorc has spell picks adapted from User Unfriendly (a gamebanshee denizen who is interested in powergaming and gave sorc picks) choices I read on another thread. Jan has all the spells he could steal or the early booty.
Advice for earliest to take my party to spellhold (Spoilers)
Advice for earliest to take my party to spellhold (Spoilers)
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
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Silvanerian
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Asap
Well...honestly, the drow themselves (all of them) shouldn't cause you that much of a headache with a decent team, which yours is, as long as you have enough healing potions.
Only concern is that you are fairly magic heavy, which the drow are naturally resistant to. Still, Anomen and Jaheira buffed should give you enough melee power in my opinion - even at low levels. (use the armours that the drow drop - they're incredibly powerful)
In my opinion, the Underdark's most problematic areas - especially for a lower level team is the Beholder lair and Illithids. You have fair clerical/summoning support in my opinion to handle the illithids, but the beholders might prove a challenge if you don't abuse the game.
Thus, if you're willing to possibly omit a part of or all of the beholder area, then you can go after Imoen asap, you just have to be a bit careful, and prepare plenty of buffing and summoning spells. Also remember that you'll most likely gain 1-2 levels per character doing the Shadow thief quests, Brynnlaw and Shahuigan city.
PS/Edit: for the lich - either you should hopefully have 6th level spells with yuor sorc, but otherwise (and as backup plan) you might want to get some scrolls of deathfog or other 6th level or above damage spells.)
Well...honestly, the drow themselves (all of them) shouldn't cause you that much of a headache with a decent team, which yours is, as long as you have enough healing potions.
Only concern is that you are fairly magic heavy, which the drow are naturally resistant to. Still, Anomen and Jaheira buffed should give you enough melee power in my opinion - even at low levels. (use the armours that the drow drop - they're incredibly powerful)
In my opinion, the Underdark's most problematic areas - especially for a lower level team is the Beholder lair and Illithids. You have fair clerical/summoning support in my opinion to handle the illithids, but the beholders might prove a challenge if you don't abuse the game.
Thus, if you're willing to possibly omit a part of or all of the beholder area, then you can go after Imoen asap, you just have to be a bit careful, and prepare plenty of buffing and summoning spells. Also remember that you'll most likely gain 1-2 levels per character doing the Shadow thief quests, Brynnlaw and Shahuigan city.
PS/Edit: for the lich - either you should hopefully have 6th level spells with yuor sorc, but otherwise (and as backup plan) you might want to get some scrolls of deathfog or other 6th level or above damage spells.)
Qualis Artefix Pereo
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dragon wench
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Thanks guys. If I get myself in a jam I may ask some tactical advice 
PS what 6th level sorc spell do I need for liches? Sunfire?
PS what 6th level sorc spell do I need for liches? Sunfire?
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
You're already too late!
If I want Imoen in my party, and I'm feeling particularly cheesy, I'll just sell/steal all those wands I find in Chateau Irenicus until I have gazoodles of money. Then I just buy the best crap Athkatla has to order (the salesmen from Icewind Dale has some great stuff, as does the lady from Planescape). You can pay off the Shadow Thieves with a level 7 or 8 Sorcerer and you're ready to rock! The most important thing is to make sure the tanks have +3 weapons.
Heck, there's a +4 staff I give to Jaheira in the Adventurer's Mart!
If I want Imoen in my party, and I'm feeling particularly cheesy, I'll just sell/steal all those wands I find in Chateau Irenicus until I have gazoodles of money. Then I just buy the best crap Athkatla has to order (the salesmen from Icewind Dale has some great stuff, as does the lady from Planescape). You can pay off the Shadow Thieves with a level 7 or 8 Sorcerer and you're ready to rock! The most important thing is to make sure the tanks have +3 weapons.
Heck, there's a +4 staff I give to Jaheira in the Adventurer's Mart!
"A life is not important, except in the impact it has on other lives."
-- Jackie Robinson
Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu!
-- Jackie Robinson
Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu!
Haha klorox I already hit gorch and the other shadow thief fence. I kept it slightly realistic by only buying 10 +2 maces and refusing to sell to a fence what I had already stolen from their inventory (but selling one fences inventory to the other was ok).
Even with the nymph cloak, ring of charisma, and friends I still managed to blow 38,000 gold and only got this stinking T-shirt, +4 staff, girdle of hill giant strength, and rod of resurections (for my er mistakes).
Now I am going to Nalia's keep to earn the money back haha.
Ok so how do I kill a lich with a 6th level spell? I'm used to surrounding them with Skeletal Mages having keldorn true sight them (don't have that) maybe some spider spawn to strip stoneskin and have Valygar reem them with backstabs or Keldorn bash with Carsomyr (either I can resurrect/freedom if it goes bad).
In other words I'm used to strolling into the underdark after completing everything else possible.
I'm guessing mislead spell immunity: truesight (hide the mislead) then lots of sunfire? But does sunfire hurt a lich even?
Even with the nymph cloak, ring of charisma, and friends I still managed to blow 38,000 gold and only got this stinking T-shirt, +4 staff, girdle of hill giant strength, and rod of resurections (for my er mistakes).
Now I am going to Nalia's keep to earn the money back haha.
Ok so how do I kill a lich with a 6th level spell? I'm used to surrounding them with Skeletal Mages having keldorn true sight them (don't have that) maybe some spider spawn to strip stoneskin and have Valygar reem them with backstabs or Keldorn bash with Carsomyr (either I can resurrect/freedom if it goes bad).
In other words I'm used to strolling into the underdark after completing everything else possible.
I'm guessing mislead spell immunity: truesight (hide the mislead) then lots of sunfire? But does sunfire hurt a lich even?
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
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Silvanerian
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Okay - liches with spells.
They are all immune to 5th level and below spells. Hence Sunfire will not work. You might occasionally see a lich being hurt by its own sunfire, but this is a clear bug, and your own will definitely never work.
Agree the Keldorn dispell/Truesight + hack away is a very effective lich killer, but as I understood from your first message, you are not using Keldorn in this party.
Hence, you need some other way to beat the liches. For a low level, dispelling their defenses is very difficult (breach does not work either being a 5th level spell).
So, a way to do so is by casting 6th level or higher damage spells. Deathfog is a 6th level area of effect spell (a la cloudkill). A couple of those will eventually kill the lich and disrupt most of his spell casting.
With a couple of scrolls, you should be able to dispense of the lich fairly easily.
Alternatively, delayed fireball blast (7th level), abi dalzim (8th), incidiary cloud (8th) will all work. And, you will be able to get a least 1 scroll of each of these before the underdark, if I remember correctly..
Chain lightning (6th level) will generally be less effective, as you would probably have difficulties dispelling the liches spell defenses, and all of above are area effect, which conveniently enough, omits personal spell protected (spellturning/deflection/spelltrap)
Remember though, that Anomen should also be getting 6th level spells fairly soon, which has anti-undead potential! Check out the clerics - level for level, it's my personal opinion that they are more effective undead-killers than mages.
They are all immune to 5th level and below spells. Hence Sunfire will not work. You might occasionally see a lich being hurt by its own sunfire, but this is a clear bug, and your own will definitely never work.
Agree the Keldorn dispell/Truesight + hack away is a very effective lich killer, but as I understood from your first message, you are not using Keldorn in this party.
Hence, you need some other way to beat the liches. For a low level, dispelling their defenses is very difficult (breach does not work either being a 5th level spell).
So, a way to do so is by casting 6th level or higher damage spells. Deathfog is a 6th level area of effect spell (a la cloudkill). A couple of those will eventually kill the lich and disrupt most of his spell casting.
With a couple of scrolls, you should be able to dispense of the lich fairly easily.
Alternatively, delayed fireball blast (7th level), abi dalzim (8th), incidiary cloud (8th) will all work. And, you will be able to get a least 1 scroll of each of these before the underdark, if I remember correctly..
Chain lightning (6th level) will generally be less effective, as you would probably have difficulties dispelling the liches spell defenses, and all of above are area effect, which conveniently enough, omits personal spell protected (spellturning/deflection/spelltrap)
Remember though, that Anomen should also be getting 6th level spells fairly soon, which has anti-undead potential! Check out the clerics - level for level, it's my personal opinion that they are more effective undead-killers than mages.
Qualis Artefix Pereo
Is it worth taking a sorceror pick as death fog? I had thought I would get:
mislead, protection from magical weapons, truesight, improved haste, death spell
I guess I could get rid of death spell (intended to clear the house of summons)? What do you think? Those look like ok picks?
mislead, protection from magical weapons, truesight, improved haste, death spell
I guess I could get rid of death spell (intended to clear the house of summons)? What do you think? Those look like ok picks?
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
Death fog is much more useful to a solo sorcerer than Death spell. Death fog, too, kills summoned creatures immediately, and also stays for 1 turn, killing further spawned summons, and dealing Acid damage to enemies(few enemies are resistant to Acid), while Death Spell only kills summons once and that's all. The fog serves as spell disruptor, affects Liches(unlike Cloudkill), and if your sorcerer is well Protected from Acid, serves as a great offensive spell in any situation(not to mention that this is the best troll slaying spell against trolls of any kind - Fire, Desert, and normal trolls).
The drawbacks of this spells are obvious, but irrelevant. It is AoE spell, which requires your own protections to be up, it will disrupt your own spellcasting, even though your PC is immune to acid damage, and it doesn't give you the xp points for slain summons(unlike Death spell). But for a solo-sorcerer, the last is irrelevant.
So, in a solo, always pick Death Fog over Death spell. Besides, you may wanna choose Contingency over Mislead.
The drawbacks of this spells are obvious, but irrelevant. It is AoE spell, which requires your own protections to be up, it will disrupt your own spellcasting, even though your PC is immune to acid damage, and it doesn't give you the xp points for slain summons(unlike Death spell). But for a solo-sorcerer, the last is irrelevant.
So, in a solo, always pick Death Fog over Death spell. Besides, you may wanna choose Contingency over Mislead.
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Silvanerian
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Whether you want Deathfog as a spell pick for your sorceror is up to you. There are many great level 6 spells. As I mentioned - there are many scrolls to be found, and believe two or so would take care of a lich.
A bit spoilerish:
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There is only one lich in the Underdark. (drow city)
If you have installed 'always spawn highest level random encounters' there will be one in the Asylum too.
But there are other ways to deal with a lich, some more cheesy than others:
1. polymorth self - mustard jelly. 1 character soaks up all the spells with 100% MR (get rest of party out of the way)
2. Protect 1 character from everything you can + a potion of magic blocking (which ensures all saves are made). Again, get rest of party out of the way.
3. Ton of summons to suck up the spells
etc..
As for spell picks, I agree with Saros on many counts, but you have a fairly caster-heavy party - you only have one non-caster character, actually. So, you might want to take extra care of the lasting area damage spells that will often disrupt spell casting. Death spell is party friendly, but not lasting, while death fog is lasting but not party friendly...
A bit spoilerish:
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.
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There is only one lich in the Underdark. (drow city)
If you have installed 'always spawn highest level random encounters' there will be one in the Asylum too.
But there are other ways to deal with a lich, some more cheesy than others:
1. polymorth self - mustard jelly. 1 character soaks up all the spells with 100% MR (get rest of party out of the way)
2. Protect 1 character from everything you can + a potion of magic blocking (which ensures all saves are made). Again, get rest of party out of the way.
3. Ton of summons to suck up the spells
etc..
As for spell picks, I agree with Saros on many counts, but you have a fairly caster-heavy party - you only have one non-caster character, actually. So, you might want to take extra care of the lasting area damage spells that will often disrupt spell casting. Death spell is party friendly, but not lasting, while death fog is lasting but not party friendly...
Qualis Artefix Pereo
I think I'll take death fog over death spell!
As far as contingency, I have read you can cast prot mag weapons almost as fast as a contingency triggers. Mislead I feel is a great spell if you hide your mislead you can pretty much unload all your spells until true sight or dispel magic (or maybe you are spell immune to those schools!).
As far as contingency, I have read you can cast prot mag weapons almost as fast as a contingency triggers. Mislead I feel is a great spell if you hide your mislead you can pretty much unload all your spells until true sight or dispel magic (or maybe you are spell immune to those schools!).
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
You seemingly underestimate Contingency. It is a life-saver in certain conditions.
First, casting time of the spell is 0. Second, the spell can be cast without interruption or under spell failure 100%. Meaning, you can activate Contingency or Chain Contingency even in the Dead Magic Zones of Watcher's keep or after being hit by an Anti-Magic beholder ray, or if you are under Creeping Doom or Insect Plague. With the help of Contingency and Dispel Magic you may even remove the effects of insect plaque. Third, a Contingency means an extra spell in addition to your other spells. Contingency + Dispel Magic also may help you when you're Confused, if you set the condition on 'Helpless'. Besides, Mislead is great to a thief, because of the backstabs. Being a Sorcerer makes you pretty much invulnerable to any attack even without Mislead.
Area of Effect spells are indeed party-unfriendly, as long as you don't buff your party properly. For instance, if you protect everyone from Fire, then it is OK to use spells like Fire Storm, Meteor Swarm, Incendiary Cloud, Sunfire and Fireball. Same is true for Death Fog - protect your party from Acid, and use the spell.
First, casting time of the spell is 0. Second, the spell can be cast without interruption or under spell failure 100%. Meaning, you can activate Contingency or Chain Contingency even in the Dead Magic Zones of Watcher's keep or after being hit by an Anti-Magic beholder ray, or if you are under Creeping Doom or Insect Plague. With the help of Contingency and Dispel Magic you may even remove the effects of insect plaque. Third, a Contingency means an extra spell in addition to your other spells. Contingency + Dispel Magic also may help you when you're Confused, if you set the condition on 'Helpless'. Besides, Mislead is great to a thief, because of the backstabs. Being a Sorcerer makes you pretty much invulnerable to any attack even without Mislead.
Area of Effect spells are indeed party-unfriendly, as long as you don't buff your party properly. For instance, if you protect everyone from Fire, then it is OK to use spells like Fire Storm, Meteor Swarm, Incendiary Cloud, Sunfire and Fireball. Same is true for Death Fog - protect your party from Acid, and use the spell.
What sort of Gear will I need for my party?
Do I need the shield of Balduran for the beholders to avoid headaches? If so I need to earn more money - Just toasted the vamps.
I have Weapons for my troop: Jaheira - staff +4, Anomen - FoA, and Disruption Mace, Yoshi - Blade of Roses +3, Valygar - Katana +2 and Corthala katana...+3 stonefire axe (non-proficient) for golems etc.
Any other items? Robe of Vecna? Any in trademeet I need?
Do I need the shield of Balduran for the beholders to avoid headaches? If so I need to earn more money - Just toasted the vamps.
I have Weapons for my troop: Jaheira - staff +4, Anomen - FoA, and Disruption Mace, Yoshi - Blade of Roses +3, Valygar - Katana +2 and Corthala katana...+3 stonefire axe (non-proficient) for golems etc.
Any other items? Robe of Vecna? Any in trademeet I need?
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
Klorox, so you don't the I'll need the shield of Balduran? Beholder's can be a headache with conventional methods...
I suppose your right. If worse comes to worse I can save the beholder (and/or illithids) until later. I believe its possible to return (just you want to polish the drow completely the first go).
I suppose your right. If worse comes to worse I can save the beholder (and/or illithids) until later. I believe its possible to return (just you want to polish the drow completely the first go).
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
Ok I have battled out of spellhold. Yay!
What spell picks do you recommend for 4th level? I have stoneskin, malison,
wizard eye.
I was thinking of farsight, spider spawn, teleport field, improved invisibility, or minor sequencer.
Thanks.
What spell picks do you recommend for 4th level? I have stoneskin, malison,
wizard eye.
I was thinking of farsight, spider spawn, teleport field, improved invisibility, or minor sequencer.
Thanks.
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.
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dragon wench
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Stoneskin and Malison are excellent choices. Wizard's Eye has its uses.What spell picks do you recommend for 4th level? I have stoneskin, malison,
wizard eye.
I was thinking of farsight, spider spawn, teleport field, improved invisibility, or minor sequencer.
Farsight - probably a waste of time, especially if you have Wizard's Eye
Teleport Field - like Wizard's Eye, it can have its uses, but I don't usually make it a priority
Spider Spawn is one of the better low level summons, with a sorc, I'm not sure I'd waste a spell slot on it though.
Improved Invisibility and Minor Sequencer - you can't go wrong with these.
My favourites for 4 th level are generally:
Confusion
Greater Mallison
Improved Invisibility
Minor Sequencer
Stoneskin
Spirit Armor
Ice Storm
Still helpful, but less important:
Emotion
Fireshield (Blue)
Fireshield (Red)
Minor Globe of Invulnerability
Otiluke's Resilient Sphere
Bear in mind, though, that much has to do with individual play style, other people will have different views and suggestions
Spoiler
testingtest12
Spoiler
testingtest12
Spirit Armour, Improved Invis, Wizard Eye and Ice Storm are the ones I actually use - SA can be given to any other party member before a bad fight and slap it onto a fighter with a good AC and you have somebody who rarely gets hit. I usually have the mage have at least 2 SAs available.
"All the world's a stage and all the men and women merely players"
Stone Skin, Greater Malison, Ice Storm, Imp. Invis.; the 5th depends on whether I'm solo or not. If solo then Farsight (I like to have a reason for knowing what's round the bend, sure I know, but my char shouldn't so to keep honest FS), if in a party I take Minor Globe of Invulnerability (the thief can scout).
[QUOTE=Darth Gavinius;1096098]Distrbution of games, is becoming a little like Democracy (all about money and control) - in the end choice is an illusion and you have to choose your lesser evil.
And everything is hidden in the fine print.[/QUOTE]
And everything is hidden in the fine print.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the advice folks. I took spider spawn because I love that spell! The spiders get so many attacks when they are sword spiders that even against a tough enemy they'll roll some hits. Also they are normal weapons so good against PFMW. I was tempted to take sequencer or ice storm. I figured my sorceror had enough damage spells especially since I picked up acid fog to deal with liches. My last pick I selected Improved Invisibility which I think is good because if you really need to you can have a spell immunity: divination, abjuration. Then they cannot target you with individualized spells which is nice.
Question: I usually use melfs minute meteors against demi-liches. I haven't seen that that is a popular sorceror pick.. What do good sorceror's do against demilich. I am in a party but I am just curious. (I'll probably kill it with ring of ram launching it into spike traps anyways, but I have took down a lich with spell immunities and loads of melfs)
Question: I usually use melfs minute meteors against demi-liches. I haven't seen that that is a popular sorceror pick.. What do good sorceror's do against demilich. I am in a party but I am just curious. (I'll probably kill it with ring of ram launching it into spike traps anyways, but I have took down a lich with spell immunities and loads of melfs)
Right Speech has four aspects: 1. Not lying, but speaking the truth, 2. Avoiding rude and coarse words, but using gentle speech beneficial to the listener, 3. Not slandering, but promoting friendliness and unity, 4. Avoiding frivolous speech, but saying only what is appropriate and beneficial.