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almost by accident i "discovered" an intriguing multi-class.

bard / cleric. (it breaks the first comandment of multi-class, thou shall not multi 2 spellcaster classes) and saddly it only really works for humans, half elves and female drow.

granted you need an odd build to make this char work, high wis & cha, dex is more important than strength. con will have to be pretty low for the other stats to work, so you can either use "draw on holy might" to raise physical stats or use more missle weapons (take advantage of high dex) i don't recall if bards get the bow feat for free or if that was part of the drow package, either way the bow makes a very good weapon for this char.

in the early game focus on cleric levels w/ only one level of bard. that will be enough to give you access to bard equipment, and the first song.

once your cleric levels begin to top off, (ie you have access to all spell levels w/ a decent amount of castings / day) then you can refocus on your bard levels the ideal finishing point is bard 11 cleric 19 (granted you'll need some fuzzy math or a hof run to make this happen)

currently i'm running a drow cleric of tempus / bard, and she's the perfect healer / summoner. she's also been the party talker.

her bard spells will never be that good on the attack, but i'm looking more for defensive type spells, which should really help her combat survival. ex mirror image, which should help her in the event that she *needs* to cast a mass heal. she'll be able to help the party w/ the various songs (hopefully by end of game she'll have all the songs)

re: cleric/bard

i don't have the game yet, but i (of course) have the party all planned up, and on of the chars is supposed to be a druid/bard

start as a druid (i don't really like clerics, so what if they'r supposed to be all that great in 3rd ed?!), then take 3 levels of a bard, in order to get the 2nd song (vs. fear), and the missing weapon feats, then progress as a druid.

his combat role would generally be missile weapons, and he'll concentrate on CHA-based skills. for heavier combat - shapechange, which is supposed to be a powerful ability, from what i understand. stats: s10 d14 c10 i10 w18 c14.

what do you lucky (game-owning) peole think? will druid1/bard1-3 be a good enough healer for the first couple of levels?

I was just thinking about the "multiclass X with 4 levels of fighter to get weapon spec. ".
Anyone ever considered what would bring actually more damage in the entire game ? For example a sorc with a bow and rapid fire - getting him the extra 2 dam per shot sacrificing 4 levels of sorc spell progress. Let's say if he fired about 5 k times (hits) in the entire game that would mean he dealt additional 10 k damage. The 4 levels would give him about 6-7 extra spell casts a day (different levels).

Hmm...anyone has the courage ( or is insane to the point ) to try and calculate what would give more benefit ?


You're absolutely right. That is one freaky freaky proposition.

hrrrm.

ftr 4 -> sorc x ???

while weapon spec does add a lot of punch to those bow attacks, you would lose more than just a few spells...

all level dependant spells would be weaker, all spells easier to save against, and to provide the most benefit the levles would have to be taken early - really slowing the sorc's progression.

i wonder if the ftr sorc is really that much of a better choice then say paladin sorc...

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further while the increased bow damage would be nice, is it needed? if my sorc is firing away w/ her bow it's b/c the opponent is weak and not worth casting spells at it. and at higher level i'm wacking away w/ mord's sword. (not to mention opponents w/ damage resistances, and having to use

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so while i'm short on numbers advantage, i'd say the pure sorc has the potential to do more damage per combat then the ftr 4 / scorc, even if the ftr scorc does more damage on average.

druid/bard

Originally posted by Mirk

what do you lucky (game-owning) peole think? will druid1/bard1-3 be a good enough healer for the first couple of levels?

my first run through the game i had a ftr 2 druid x as my only healer, towards the end it was tough, but possible. a few time i'd run out of healing potions. (thank goodness for potion bags)

Originally posted by Nuke
I Anyone ever considered...
...one freaky freaky proposition.

i think this all boils down to whether or not you are serious about casting spells, or just drag your spellcasters with for occasional use. If 4 fighter levels yeild good bowmanship, more fighter levels have got to improve those skills.
Similarly, if one wants to cast potent spells, those fighter levels are a hinderance. With many potent spells in a sorcerer's arsenal, they have the potential to due great amounts of damage, possibly even more damage over the course of the game than a 4th level fighter could do.
Compromises between those extremes are certainly workable, but IMHO, the sorcerer is a poor class to experiment with multiclassing. A mage would be a better choice.

Originally posted by Mirk
what do you lucky (game-owning) peole think? will druid1/bard1-3 be a good enough healer for the first couple of levels?

It'll probably be adequate, but a cleric would do the job so much better. I know you hate them, but still...

Originally posted by Nuke
I was just thinking about the "multiclass X with 4 levels of fighter to get weapon spec. ".

Anyone ever considered what would bring actually more damage in the entire game ? For example a sorc with a bow and rapid fire - getting him the extra 2 dam per shot sacrificing 4 levels of sorc spell progress. Let's say if he fired about 5 k times (hits) in the entire game that would mean he dealt additional 10 k damage. The 4 levels would give him about 6-7 extra spell casts a day (different levels).

Hmm...anyone has the courage ( or is insane to the point ) to try and calculate what would give more benefit ?

Four levels of fighter are best used with highly combat orientated characters (Bbn/Ftr, Rog/Ftr, Pal/Ftr are all good examples). But spell-casters will be hamstrung if they lose too many levels.

Originally posted by Skooter327
i think this all boils down to whether or not you are serious about casting spells, or just drag your spellcasters with for occasional use.

Compromises between those extremes are certainly workable, but IMHO, the sorcerer is a poor class to experiment with multiclassing. A mage would be a better choice.

I have to agree. While giving your mage a bow is a good idea, adding fighter levels is going to make him weaker in the long run (since he will be way behind in spell casting).

How bout this???

What would u think of a monk x/druidx combo
u get the wis bonus to ac
the wild shape
the evacion
the increased movement
unarmed fighting bonus

im just not sure about how many levels in each class to take
can u give me some advice on this

monk / druid

you've got to get all your monk levels in a row, i'd go with either 1 or 2 monk levels at most. only one is likely the best approach.

obviously your race of choice must be human (or half elf)

start as a level 1 monk (of old order iirc) then level exclusively as a druid.

if you pick up too many monk levels it will be along time before you can shapeshift, or get the better druid spells.

Newbie here!

Since Im new here and into the game (played BGI and II tho), I would like to ask you for some advice about my party I intend to finish the game with.
I only played the first two chapters now and I have tweaked and experimented alot the last week. What do you think about :

1. Aasimar Ftr 4/Paladin of Lathander 2/Cleric of Lathander X
Role: Tank 1/Leader; using bastard sword;
2. Shielddwarf Ftr 4/Brb X
Role: Tank 2; using great sword;
3. Ghostwise halfling Brb1/Cleric of Ilmater X/Painbearer of Ilmater X
Role: Healer/Tank 3/Thief; using long sword and sling;
4. Half-Elf Ftr 4/Wizard X
Role: Archer mage/Scout; using bow and long sword;
5. Human Bard X/Battleguard of Tempus X
Role: Diplomat/Bomber/Healer/Semi-tank; using axe and crossbow.

I eagerly await your response and advice
--
Greatings & peace, Sigi

Originally posted by Sigi
Since Im new here and into the game (played BGI and II tho), I would like to ask you for some advice about my party I intend to finish the game with.
I only played the first two chapters now and I have tweaked and experimented alot the last week. What do you think about :

1. Aasimar Ftr 4/Paladin of Lathander 2/Cleric of Lathander X
Role: Tank 1/Leader; using bastard sword;

This guy's going to have a rather hefty experience penalty. I would drop the cleric levels and just make him either a Ftr4/PalXX or a Pal3/FtrXX, depending on your preferences.

Originally posted by Sigi
2. Shielddwarf Ftr 4/Brb X
Role: Tank 2; using great sword;

No problems here.

Originally posted by Sigi
3. Ghostwise halfling Brb1/Cleric of Ilmater X/Painbearer of Ilmater X
Role: Healer/Tank 3/Thief; using long sword and sling;

I think this is a typo, since the Painbearer is the cleric of Ilmater. I'll assume you just want a Bbn1/ClrXX. The barbarian level isn't going to hurt you too much, but it's not going to give you too much either. You're going to want your cleric to be heavily armored, and that'll negate the barb's fast movement ability. Rage is okay, but clerics don't really make great melee characters. My advice is to just drop it and go with a straight cleric.

Originally posted by Sigi
4. Half-Elf Ftr 4/Wizard X
Role: Archer mage/Scout; using bow and long sword;

Spell-casting classes don't generally multi-class well. You'll be way behind on spell progression and 4 fighter levels just don't compensate for that. While a bow is nice for a mage (keeps them out of the front line), I would get rid of the fighter level and just go with a single-classed wizard.

Originally posted by Sigi
5. Human Bard X/Battleguard of Tempus X
Role: Diplomat/Bomber/Healer/Semi-tank; using axe and crossbow.

Interesting choice. But Bards aren't really a good class, and the afore mention tip about not multi-classing spell-casters applies here as well. Also, you don't need so many tanks in your party. Two will suffice (which your dwarf and aasimar fill the role of). I would recomend a rogue of some sort here (Rng1/RogXX, Ftr4/RogXX, or straight rogue).

Originally posted by Kayless
This guy's going to have a rather hefty experience penalty. I would drop the cleric levels and just make him either a Ftr4/PalXX or a Pal3/FtrXX, depending on your preferences.
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The idea was to use the inbuilt abilities advantages of the Aasimar and two extra feats of the Ftr...
The exp penalty is too high tho and since I don't need two clerics, you convinced me to drop the Cleric and go for Pal3/Ftrx
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No problems here.
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I'd even go for a Half-Orc Ftr4/BrbX with str20.
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I think this is a typo, since the Painbearer is the cleric of Ilmater. My advice is to just drop it and go with a straight cleric.
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My idea was to go for a Paladin-/Cleric- of Ilmater with Rage+fast movement, but you convinced me to drop the Brb and after all: who needs two Pals and two Clerics? Now I choose a Battleguard of Tempus probably, heh.
--
Spell-casting classes don't generally multi-class well. You'll be way behind on spell progression and 4 fighter levels just don't compensate for that. While a bow is nice for a mage (keeps them out of the front line), I would get rid of the fighter level and just go with a single-classed wizard.
--
The idea here was to make an archer mage/scout with a lill' punch and to use the Ftr for his feats and more HP, cuz I don't feel too confident yet to play from the start with just a single Wiz(any tips how to protect him?). I'll settle for a Moon-Elf Wizard then...
--
Interesting choice. But Bards aren't really a good class, and the afore mention tip about not multi-classing spell-casters applies here as well. I would recomend a rogue of some sort here (Rng1/RogXX, Ftr4/RogXX, or straight rogue).
--
I wanted to use the Bard for his songs, minor spellcasting, use of his Lore/magic device capabilities and the Rogue as a thief.
Ftr4/Rogxx it is then.

Thanks alot for the tips, m8

Originally posted by Sigi
I'd even go for a Half-Orc Ftr4/BrbX with str20.

Both the half-orc and the dwarf make very solid warriors, so either one will give you the muscle you need.

Originally posted by Sigi
My idea was to go for a Paladin-/Cleric- of Ilmater with Rage+fast movement, but you convinced me to drop the Brb and after all: who needs two Pals and two Clerics? Now I choose a Battleguard of Tempus probably, heh.

The Battleguard is a good combative cleric, so he should work out well for you.

Originally posted by Sigi
The idea here was to make an archer mage/scout with a lill' punch and to use the Ftr for his feats and more HP, cuz I don't feel too confident yet to play from the start with just a single Wiz(any tips how to protect him?). I'll settle for a Moon-Elf Wizard then...

Low-level wizards are notoriously fragile. Giving them a bow and keeping them out of front line is a good start. Mage Armor, Shield, and Minor Mirror Image are all decedent low-level spells that will help keep your mage alive. With a little luck your mage will live long enough to get the good spells (and start kicking ass).

Originally posted by Sigi
Thanks alot for the tips, m8

That's what I'm here for.

Some advice on my party

I've come to this party now there are still some things I'm unsure of:

Bard X (probably add some fighter lvls)
Sorcerer X (I will keep this one she's good )
Paladin of Ilmater 4 (probably 3) / Cleric confused:unsure which deity to pick probably lathander)
Fighter 4 / Rogue X D this one is actually brilliant)
Monk 2 / Druid X D same here)
Fighter 4 / Specialist Mage confused: unsure which school)

It's working out quite well I'm currently on Chapter 2 (just beaten Sherincal)

Some advice plz thanks

nice looking group, nicely balanced all around, but i wonder if you'll miss a "true" tank in some cases.

the bard is likely fine they way it is, if you use that char more in combat and less spells / song, maybe the 4 ftr levels for bow specilization, but imo it won't make that much of a difference either way.

paladin / cleric - if you choose illmater you can always add paladin levels again later on in the game. but lathander is a good choice too for a little extra blasting power.

ftr/ wizard - the spells i use most often are evocation / conjuration & transmutation, so i dig the transmuter. i do miss the neco spells though... (but you do have the sorc for the powerfull ones) remember the manual is wrong on the opposition schools, check the ingame data before you make any rash decisions.

I don't think I use that many transmutation spells, can u tell me which ones u use because I use mostly evocation, necromancy, conjuration and enchantment spells. I think I'll just pick the spells I can't cast with him either with the sorc or the bard. Oh by the way is malison worth a pick for my sorc and how about lower resistance

I haven't got any trouble with not having a real tank because my paladin/cleric fighter/mage fighter/rogue and monk/druid are all quite capable melee fighters. The fighter/rogue also makes an excellent archer and sneaker and u don't want to be around when my monk/druid shapeshifts. I'll have these two going in melee and use the spellcasters to throw in some nice spells which will be evaded by the rogue and monk most of the time. especially when I wildshape the monk/druid into some high dex creature for example dire panther.

I think I will go for the cleric of lathander because he has more useful spells than the ilmater and helm domains although ilmater can cast horrid wilting. Well I think my sorc and probably the fighter/wizard will cover that


Keeping the bard straight (well at least till lvl 11) will probably be the best since I already have 4 melee oriented chars.

Originally posted by Mitch
I've come to this party now there are still some things I'm unsure of:

Bard X (probably add some fighter lvls)

Well for what it’s worth I feel that bards are the worst class around. So naturally I’d suggest something else here. Propably a fighter or barbarian to give you at least one real tank.

Originally posted by Mitch
Sorcerer X (I will keep this one she's good)

Nice. What could be better than a single-classed spell-caster?

Originally posted by Mitch
Paladin of Ilmater 4 (probably 3) / Cleric confused:unsure which deity to pick probably lathander)

Once again I must reiterate how multi-classing spell using classes is a big no-no. Your cleric should be fine without the paladin levels (or maybe just one for the paladin's Divine Grace ability).

Originally posted by Mitch
Fighter 4 / Rogue X (this one is actually brilliant)

Excellent.

Originally posted by Mitch
Monk 2 / Druid X (same here)

Ditto.

Originally posted by Mitch
Fighter 4 / Specialist Mage confused: unsure which school)

Why do people always want to stick four fighter levels on their mages? Weapon Specialization isn’t that good (and it certainly doesn’t make up for the crap load of spells your loosing). I would make another tank character here, since you already have a mage in your party (the sorc).

BTW With what level do you complete the game ? Don't tell me all chars end up with l 30 in a 6 ppl party . No wait. DO Tell me that it's like that.