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aqua chan is right. For a quite a while it's just been about semantics of previous posts.

I honestly don't get it. Dragon Age looks quite good actually. It's actually better than most of the games that I have here on the PC and has even better visuals than a lot of console games that I do have. The areas seem distinctive from one another. A few people complain about the mines I think, but what mine have you realistically seen that is radically different from one place to another? Real mines ARE dull. :laugh: Maybe the game is just being realistic? I have to admit though, the way people put down DA:O makes me want to think the game is indeed dull and dreary. But when I played the game recently, It wasn't as bad as it was made out to be.

And I don't want quotes on how there are primary reference to the battles in the mines. I'm talking about visuals in the mines.


As for text and voice acting, I can appreciate the voice acting and how well done it is. I also skip the text in baldur's gate if I'm in a rush but it just so happens that I can read it fully just before I move on. And I can certainly see how it has become rather standard for this genre in particular. Final Fantasy, Star Ocean, and RPGs in general are also heavily criticized and reviewed for this aspect.

Plenty of things I don't like in DOA that's for sure :

1. Oversimplified inventory system. I like to manage inventories, I really do. Contrary to what many people prefer I consider the inventory an important part of an RPG. I don't like the fact that all the party's resources are thrown in one big "pool". Also I don't like the fact I can haul 70 full plate mails at level 1, it's lame and badly designed. The devs took user friendliness to a negative extreme here for me.
2. Parties of 4. Stop those parties of 4 already! God! Every damn game limits your party to 4. Back in 1988 even parties consisted of 6. Instead of a leap forwards since then we've actually stumbled backwards. This means less interaction, running back to the camp to change party members, which is a (intentional?) time sink.
3. The magic system. I like playing mages, but this system is a joke. There's something to be said for being able to freeze the whole world at level 5, but it gets old quickly. Yes, you're effective early in the game, but personally I believe in growing as a character. If I can cast wishes at level 5, why would I want to go on and reach level 10? Also it renders the whole level system moot, because you don't grow more powerful as the game progresses, you already have that "be all end all" spell, in DOA leveling in magic just means more of the same. As a mage I like an arsenal of spells and I don't like to be forced to choose what spell I pick next. I suppose Bioware went for the sorceror approach, which I never liked anyway.
4. The skill system. Not really a system to begin with... It seems added as an aftertought.
5. The DLC's. I suppose DLC is here to stay, but after being in DLC HELL for the past 2 days after formatting my system and reinstalling (DLC not appearing, save games where my DLC's were mysteriously unauthorized though I was logged in, bought DLC disappearing to be bought again with points, etc...) I hate the whole DLC system even more vehemently and I'm a staunch defender of EQUAL content for all. Unless it's an expansion, the customer shouldn't be forced to pay for minimal extra content. And if the system to acquire that content is bugridden and flawed, the press and gamesites have to make sure the customer knows that instead of giving a score of 90/100 or A+ 3 days before a game hits the shelves, because the developer and the publisher will obviously not. I do not blame this on EA, because Bioware has does this thing in the past with NWN (Kingmaker modules etc...). It saddens me to see that Bioware, a company I respected once, is choosing to milk the cashcow (read customer) too.
6. A set world to explore. I generally prefer BG1 over BG2 and here's why: in BG1 there were lots of area's to explore and there was something resembling exploration. Do you remember slaughtering the Xvart village or the area with the sirens, the golem caves and the Ulcaster school? In BG2 this was cut and every area in Amn was filled with plot advancers or quest NPC's. Same here. Outside of what the devs want to show you it seems there's nothing in Ferelden to see or explore. I hate to be taken by the hand and led around.
7. Quest givers and NPC's are a waste of time. Let's replace them all with boards and panels and place 50 lame sidequests on them. That's just laziness.
I don't know about you guys but that was a huge letdown for me. More sidequests? Let's add a Blackstones Irregulars board to Redcliffe. Not enough? Let's add a Mage board and Chantry board too. Come on... And to add insult to injury, the few quests NPC's out there get a huge exclamation mark pasted over their heads.
8. A very dead world. During the perpetual daylight, unless nightfall is scripted for an event, I can't remember ever seeing it rain or seeing the seasons change (or maybe once, I can't remember), etc... Stuff like that adds to immersion and can make a good game great.

That all being vented, there are also positive things I can say about DOA, but since this thread is all about disappointments I'll refrain from pointing them out

True. And they messed up ME2 badly.

Does anyone dare to give Bioware a bad review?

Merlanni wrote:True. And they messed up ME2 badly.

Does anyone dare to give Bioware a bad review?

My DA:O review here wasn't exactly waving banners for the game.

Scottg wrote:<snip>
BG2 was the focus you presented, and therefor is the "standard".
<snip>

Two different comparisons and situations.

BG2 reference was to that you can also play that game without going the "optimal" route if you so choosed.

Other game references to show that BG2 "variety" and "amount" of NPCs for party is not a (Bioware) standard and therefor cannot be an "standard expected feature".

Using one game as base for one comparison does not make it a genre standard in all aspects.

Merlanni wrote: Does anyone dare to give Bioware a bad review?

I remember critics from some major sites were more critical of its shortcomings and gave it between a mid to high 8s, but most praise it to high heavens, with Gamespot labelling it as 'great value for money'.

If you ask me, I find the game good but not great. Really overrated, though.

Xandax wrote:When looking at the game, BG2 is still top 2 of my cRPG ever - but I am not at least in the doubt that many people look very fondly and rose-tainted on it when comparing with newer modern games due to nostalgia.

I still play BG2!

Actually, my only *real* complaint about DA is about the controls and view during combat. I like playing from the top-down perspective, but it's almost impossible because enemies can shoot you from 3-4 screens away. Also it feels very awkward controlling each character's action and the AI is really, really bad.

Only started playing the game last night, not a huge disappointment, I never expected it to be brilliant, but having two CTDs (with latest patch installed) already, and the severely linear gameplay so far isn't exactly thrilling me.

Gamespot labelling it as 'great value for money'.

That'd be the same Gamespot who were exposed as a mag who's reviews were for sale last year? If I was relying on their review I'd never have bought the game, even at the knock down price I did.

galraen wrote:That'd be the same Gamespot who were exposed as a mag who's reviews were for sale last year? If I was relying on their review I'd never have bought the game, even at the knock down price I did.

You're right, except for the magazine part as it is actually a website.

Regarding Gamespot, I used to rely on their reviews when it came to non-RPG games like shooters and strategy games, until Oblivion came along. That's where things went downhill after that. This happened way before the review sale scandal.

If I relied on their review for Dragon Age, I also would have viewed the game with deep suspicion and avoided it completely (and it isn't helped by the myriad of reviews praising it to high heavens). But hey, since I got it as a present, might as well just give it a go and see if it is worth my time or not. Turned out to be a good game but I still would not call it great by a milestone. At least I enjoyed it a lot more than Mass Effect, though. :laugh:

galraen wrote:Only started playing the game last night, not a huge disappointment, I never expected it to be brilliant, but having two CTDs (with latest patch installed) already, and the severely linear gameplay so far isn't exactly thrilling me.
<snip>

The 1.03 patch is hugely unstable - unfortunately -which can't avoid giving a more negative experience of the game.
However the linear aspect eases up somewhat after a point, much like it did in the older games.

I've noticed the game has opened up more after Ostagor, it's certainly not a bad game, enjoyable so far apart from the CTDs, and two of them in 24 hours isn't exactly in the Daggerfall league! I played that through to the end a couple of times, so will no doubt do the same with DA: O.

Spoiler:

Spoiler

I was a bit lost after the initial fight inside Redcliffe Castle, I got the impression I had to race down to the dock and take a boat to The Circle. Not sure if that was down to me misinterpreting or bad dialog. Whatever, back to the castle.

Spoiler ends

While I agree with most of the criticism that people have said about this game... still, it's one of the best games I've played in years.

Also, for those playing on console. I feel sorry for you. Just graphics wise, it looks terrible. I play on pc and thought it was pretty good. Enough to get immersed in. Then I went over to my friends that had been playing it on the 360 and was shocked how... crappy it looked. Ehhhgh.

Dragon Age was disappointing only in the way that there are RPG's that were made in the 90's and early 2000's that are better. This game was supposed to be revolutionary! It wasn't. Instead it was just a really good RPG.

Oh dear, I was starting to enjoy this game despite the CTDs, but I just got to the top of the Mage's Tower and shunted into a horrible puzzle game. If there isn't a short cut through this, and/or there's more of this sort of gob****e ahead I guess it's uninstall time. Annoying, I thought I'd bought an RPG, it seems I was wrong.

galraen wrote:Oh dear, I was starting to enjoy this game despite the CTDs, but I just got to the top of the Mage's Tower and shunted into a horrible puzzle game. If there isn't a short cut through this, and/or there's more of this sort of gob****e ahead I guess it's uninstall time. Annoying, I thought I'd bought an RPG, it seems I was wrong.

Many people hate that section. The first time I did it I used [url="http://mycheats.1up.com/view/section/2019479/27857/dragon_age_origins/pc"]this guide[/url], and I don't regret it at all.
[url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/dragonageorigins/walkthrough/thefade-therawfade.php"]GB's Guide[/url] also has some handy maps.
Subsequent tours through the Fade with different characters were much less frustrating and now I don't need the guide, but I'd definitely recommend it the first time.

Don't let the Fade make you uninstall the game....
(You won't find another section like this in DAO btw)

dragon wench wrote:Many people hate that section.

I actually *liked* that section of the game. ..well, not the Templar's Nightmare (though even that wasn't difficult to figure out).

The shape-shifting capability reminded me of Shadowrun (or Shadowshift or something like that.. from the 90's).

Linkamus wrote:Dragon Age was disappointing only in the way that there are RPG's that were made in the 90's and early 2000's that are better. This game was supposed to be revolutionary! It wasn't. Instead it was just a really good RPG.

I understand this has become the status quo.

There ought to be an RPG gaming website that solely focuses on reviews that point out if new RPGs have improved on either Baldur's Gate or PST. And if they find improvement, the new replaces the old in the ever evolving search for better RPG's.

140 posts and 16,000+ views (and counting). That tells me there's pretty much a lot of validation goin on. And a lot of disappointment.

Hot little thread y'all got going on here.

Scottg wrote: I actually *liked* that section of the game. ..well, not the Templar's Nightmare (though even that wasn't difficult to figure out).

The shape-shifting capability reminded me of Shadowrun (or Shadowshift or something like that.. from the 90's).

Would you believe that the Fade actually brought out my real life claustrophobia the first time I entered?

It wasn't as bad on subsequent runs because I knew there was a way out, and the perks from going through aren't exactly bad.

@Galraen,
one thing I forgot to mention, there's a mod at Tes Nexus that allows you to skip the Fade, but I wouldn't really suggest using it, your call though.

@Tricky,
I think you might have something there... though, of course, that cannon would never be updated....

Hm. I suppose we could get ourselves paid by advertisers to update our cannon with biased reviews as well..