The Scarred Land of Hades

malinzaro · Post by **malinzaro** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:50 am

I like the concept Claudius, though why not doing it as a template or as a bloodline? You could take it of the bat and enjoy it earlier.

On other notes, I believe we are overburdening Siberys (yes I am talking primarily about me!) and he might just cut all our ideas and go by the regular rules

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:06 am

Yes malinzaro you are right. I can ask about my idea much later than now.

@Siberys, you can reserve comment or judgement on my proposal till later unless you wish otherwise...

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:53 am

So, if I understand this right my Human (race) adds the Half-Minotaur (template) and becomes LA+1. In this case it would start as a class level 2 character. By being medium sized as per human race its size also increases to large and for this is adds the bonuses I was talking about. Which were in your SRD link with size increase.

No, a half-race that increases your size uses the [url="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm#bigandLittleCreaturesInCombat"]Character Size Increase[/url] table.

A monstrous template like Giant [url="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#sizeIncreases"]increases your size[/url] as if you were a monster.

P.S. I apologize for having so many questions for you. I hope you don't mind too much. I know that being a play by post campaign this drags the things a bit too much.

It's no worries.

- LA+0
- STR +4, CON +4, DEX -4, INT -2, CHA -2
- Monstrous humanoid
- Large size (-1 AC and attack rolls, Space/Reach 10'/10', Hide -4, Grapple checks +4, lift/carry doubled than medium characters)
- Base land speed 40'
- Darkvision 60'
- Scent
- Intimidate +2, Spot +2, Listen +2, Bluff -2, Diplomacy -2, Balance -2, Escape Artist -2, Tumble -2, Disguise -2
- Greataxe proficiency
- +4 natural armor
- 1d6 natural attack for the horns (piercing attack) and 1d6 natural attack for the hoofs (bludgeoning attack) plus 1,5 STR bonus
- Natural Cunning (Ex): Although minotaurs are not especially intelligent, they possess innate cunning and logical ability. This gives them immunity to maze spells, prevents them from ever becoming lost, and enables them to track enemies. Further, they are never caught flat-footed.
- Automatic Languages: Common, Giant. Bonus languages: Orc, Goblin

Ok, all that is easily a +2 LA so you'll need to reduce quite a bit.

Natural Cunning- Remove flat footed.
Constitution- +2 instead of 4.
Natural Armor- +2 instead of 4.
Natural Attacks- one natural Gore attack (horns) instead of both.
Darkvision- 30ft
Base Land Speed- 30ft

If you do that, you can have it as a +0LA race.

@Claudius-

I won't be allowing custom prestige classes in my game. That's far too much work to add on for me, as well as the simple fact that any time a player would create a prestige class for their character it is ONLY for their character, making it inherently unbalanced.

Please use the classes and prestige classes pre-made in all the books and supplements and if you find a prestige class pre-made online, link it to me and I'll look over it for approval.

malinzaro · Post by **malinzaro** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:17 am

Okay, I think we're just complicating ourselves needlessly. I will follow your advices prior, since you obviously have much more experience than me. I feel that LA+2 is just too much for a level 3 starting character. Basically I will choose the Half-Minotaur race. I have second thoughts about the giant template because I believe that I might be seriously hampered HP wise. I might as well go with what is provided.

I am working on the character sheet now. It should be up soon and then I will think about the background story.

Edit: Is there a problem that my CHA is negative? Thinking about the Touch of Vitality.

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:58 pm

If you're fine with a negative modifier for that score, then other than touch of vitality there shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Just remember that the math used is Twice your caster level x your charisma mod. If your charisma modifier is 0 or below, you don't get to use this ability at all basically.

You will still HAVE the ability, so when you get an item that boosts charisma or something to at least a +1, THEN you can use it but until then, you can't use it with a Charisma of 11 or below.

malinzaro · Post by **malinzaro** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:20 am

Siberys wrote:If you're fine with a negative modifier for that score, then other than touch of vitality there shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Just remember that the math used is Twice your caster level x your charisma mod. If your charisma modifier is 0 or below, you don't get to use this ability at all basically.

You will still HAVE the ability, so when you get an item that boosts charisma or something to at least a +1, THEN you can use it but until then, you can't use it with a Charisma of 11 or below.

Actually I am not fine in this case. I modified my character sheet to reflect this. I haven't received any feedback about him by the way (I sprobably forgot about something). I also have 1000 gold coins unspent and can't figure out what to do with them. Any book I could study for this? I tried the Dungeon Master Guide, but the options are quite limited and frankly expensive. Please check the sheet and tell me what do you think. The background story isn't ready yet though I lived underground for sure.

Treblin · Post by **Treblin** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:40 am

@Malinzaro- Looking over your character setup and current items nothing really jumps out at me other than perhaps a cloak of charisma +1 and then when you hit level 4, put your bonus stat point into charisma and that will get you to your charisma a further +1 to help with your special ability.

Other than that...potions never hurt

Or save the cash...1k is nothing to sneeze at, it will give you a jumpstart on either purchasing, or perhaps enchanting your current greataxe which im assuming is your weapon of choice other than when slashing weapons are of no use.

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:13 pm

Guys,

reading the other campaign threads, I was thinking about roleplaying. As this is not hack and slash crpg I wanted my character to make sense how he learned things.

He must have some access to a place where he can read books about geography. He has heard about some explorers who had adventures and made maps. He does not have knowledge cartographer, but has made his own simple maps for his own use. If geography includes ability to make a map (DC) then he has attempted in order to learn. Or barring a book learning he has talked to travelers to learn of geogrpahy though he has an 8 charisma thats probably still possible, he just would have more difficulty becoming the leader or influencing but he 'loner' is more personality characteristic correct? A loner could have a high charisma.

With his disable traps could he have learned that from trapping animals in traps? Tumble and climbs are learned from climbing trees to get a perch or to hide/stalk. The others from hunting and scouting.

All in all he has friend(s) who are smuggler and most likely served as a scout lookout or even possible 'muscle' though not an enforcer. But most of his time is spent outdoors.

Siberys,

I had thought to myself that knowledge smuggling would be class skill for a rogue, but I didn't want to assume too much as I am new to the game. What do you think? I believe I want knowledge rather than profession.

Siberys,

I changed some skills to give him spot which would make sense.

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 2:20 pm

I had thought to myself that knowledge smuggling would be class skill for a rogue, but I didn't want to assume too much as I am new to the game. What do you think? I believe I want knowledge rather than profession.

Yeah, knowledge smuggling makes sense for a rogue so go ahead.

And remember, as I said, you need -all three skills- for you to turn it into a viable profession.

I changed some skills to give him spot which would make sense.

That's fine.

@Mal-

Alchemical weapon capsules always work. Complete Adventurer, cheap oneshot stuff to make your weapons magical for a short period.

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 2:58 pm

For the wilderness rogue do the special abilities of camouflage etc. come at that rogue level? It says 'can be chosen' which is confusing.

Edit: I think I get it... you can take these instead of crippling strike and so forth..

Special Abilities

Add woodland stride (as the 7th-level ranger ability), camouflage (as the 13th-level ranger ability) and hide in plain sight (as the 17th-level ranger ability, requires the rogue to already have the camouflage ability) to the list of special abilities that can be chosen by the wilderness rogue.

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:15 pm

No, Rogues gain "Special abilities" at level 10 and every 3 levels afterwards, and so you can choose those abilities when you get the "Special abilities" class feature.

We need to be done with characters soon guys. I'll be honest, these changes are getting a little out of hand.

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:51 pm

I'll return it to regular rogue and stop with the changes

I just can't leave well enough alone!

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:17 pm

Claudius wrote:I'll return it to regular rogue and stop with the changes I just can't leave well enough alone!

It's not just you, and considering you're a Rogue/Ranger right now, returning to regular rogue is in and of itself a change.

Anyway, the point is right now my campaign is ready and has been ready. What I need now are backgrounds to start it, and that's it.

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:30 pm

Oh I see. No I had intended to keep ranger AND go wilderness rogue.

Ranger 2 picks up a lot of abilities for 2 levels: track, two weapon, wild empathy, skills (heal), favored enemy.

I have made my decision however. I want my character to be more diverse. So I want the regular rogue.

Sorry for the confusion. Let me know if my background on my character sheet needs work.

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:32 pm

Fair enough.

And your background is fine so far.

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:14 pm

@Mal-

Your hit points should be 23, not 21.

D10 hit dice.

10 + 5.5 is 15.5. +4 constitution twice (15.5 + 4 + 4) = 23.

You have 2 more skill points.

Your breastplate should be 1350, not 1550.

Finally, since you wanted to be Large in a way, I have a small idea I'd be willing to let you do if you wanted. Being large in and of itself presents a lot of problems for a low level character, however emulating a large character is different.

Psionic Races :: d20srd.org

Take a look at the "powerful build" ability. If you wanted, I would let you swap out the "Natural Cunning" ability from Half-Minotaur with that (you'd still be a half minotaur just like normal, only with Powerful Build instead of Natural Cunning).

This would let you get away with the 9'2" height, wield a ridiculously sized greataxe, and still be fairly balanced for the game.

Treblin · Post by **Treblin** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:57 pm

I've completed my character and am ready to play.

malinzaro · Post by **malinzaro** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:08 am

@Treblin and Siberys: Thank you for suggesting ways to use the money. I think I'll keep them for now. When I'll be able to gather more I could potentially improve him in specific areas instead of spreading too much now.

Siberys wrote: Your hit points should be 23, not 21.

D10 hit dice.

10 + 5.5 is 15.5. +4 constitution twice (15.5 + 4 + 4) = 23.

Ouch. I calculated 10+4 for the first level and (10+4)/2 for the second. So I actually get 6 for my dice and the CON bonus is not divided whatsoever. Updated the sheet to reflect that!

You have 2 more skill points.

My mistake! I did a certain skill allocation first, then decided to play by strengths instead and probably forgot to check the final result. I thought that considering my background story Nordak couldn't be developed in many ways. Updated.

Your breastplate should be 1350, not 1550.

This means the price of the mundane armor is already included in the masterwork version. Certainly an overlook. Sheet updated!

Finally, since you wanted to be Large in a way, I have a small idea I'd be willing to let you do if you wanted. Being large in and of itself presents a lot of problems for a low level character, however emulating a large character is different.

Take a look at the "powerful build" ability. If you wanted, I would let you swap out the "Natural Cunning" ability from Half-Minotaur with that (you'd still be a half minotaur just like normal, only with Powerful Build instead of Natural Cunning).

This would let you get away with the 9'2" height, wield a ridiculously sized greataxe, and still be fairly balanced for the game.

I wanted to be large for getting reach, but I understand that you feel the natural cunning ability as somehow imbalanced for a starting character. I modified the sheet to reflect the change. I also modified the base damage for weapons since if I got it right this means my weapons are one size bigger. So for Greataxe I went from 1d12 to 3d6, Sling from 1d4 to 1d6 and Morningstar from 1d8 to 2d6.

I have 3 questions regarding Gore natural attack: 1. Is the attack bonus correct at 0 (=1 base + 4 STR bonus - 5 for being a second attack)? 2. For being large size the Gore base attack modifies in any way (i.e., going from 1d6 to 1d8)? 3. There are any STR bonuses that apply to this Gore attack as for weapons?

Thanks for checking the sheet. I also like the ability below. It sounds like the hoof natural attack I wanted in the first place. Is there any way to have it?

Psi-Like Ability: 1/day—stomp. Manifester level is equal to ½ Hit Dice (minimum 1st). The save DC is Charisma-based.

Edit: The background is up and hopefully complete.

Siberys · Post by **Siberys** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:49 am

This means the price of the mundane armor is already included in the masterwork version. Certainly an overlook. Sheet updated!

Umm...no. You don't get six, you get 5.5 plus your constitution score, so 9.5 every level after 1st. And that .5 is not rounded up or down, you add those together throughout levels.

I have 3 questions regarding Gore natural attack: 1. Is the attack bonus correct at 0 (=1 base + 4 STR bonus - 5 for being a second attack)? For being large size the Gore base attack modifies in any way? 3. There are any STR bonuses that apply to this attack as for weapons?

Yes, yes it goes up one die step in damage (1d8 to 2D6), and yes it gets your strength modifier for damage.

Thanks for checking the sheet. I also like the ability below. It sounds like the hoof natural attack I wanted in the first place. Is there any way to have it?

No, stomp is a psi-like ability and that is too specific for your race to have.

malinzaro · Post by **malinzaro** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:50 pm

Siberys wrote:Umm...no. You don't get six, you get 5.5 plus your constitution score, so 9.5 every level after 1st. And that .5 is not rounded up or down, you add those together throughout levels.

Roger that!

Yes, yes it goes up one die step in damage (1d8 to 2D6), and yes it gets your strength modifier for damage.

How about the attack bonus? I understood that in a round I can hit once with the weapon in hand and once with the natural weapon, but at -5 penalty. Is this correct?

No, stomp is a psi-like ability and that is too specific for your race to have.

No problem!

Please check the background story. If there is anything else to add let me know!