GameBanshee Forums

I enjoy the 3.5 rules, and would look forward to feats and would be thrilled to have psionics. I would be happy with any edition of the rules as long as: quickly choosing between weapon configurations were as easy as Icewind Dale:II, more bags of holding/containers for ammo, etc. without resorting to chease, and if psionics were included.

3.5 allows for psionics and magic to be interchangeable, which would diffuse any potential game programming headaches. I know psionics is extremely unpopular, otherwise it would be in the other games already (besides Dark Sun), but I would love it. I'd even play BG:III as a 3-D game if it allowed psionics. My hopes for psionics feel as realistic though as wanting world peace, oh well (sigh).

I agree about the quests. I recall playing an old Dark Sun crpg, and a woman starts running towards you in the city of Tyr, yelling out for all the world, "Help, I'm with the Veiled Alliance!" (It would be similar if, during the Inquisition around the Middle Ages, someone were to approach strangers yelling out, "Help! I'm with a coven of witches!") She'd otherwise have a pack of Templars on her ass in seconds. Does anyone in a secret cell operative do that? Potential quests should be relevant to the party and not seem coerced like at a bad gaming Con (Your characters enter that cave because you're all sitting at this table and I say so. . . I'm the DM, and it's in the script.)

If any alignment can be played, then I'd love more balance in fully actualizing the diverging paths in the game. Those propositioning with opposing quests should avoid the party, or prove adversarial instead of inviting.

I like how in Icewind Dale, depending on race and class, different dialogue options appeared, and I'd encourage that. I enjoy how Drow characters include their language as PC's when clicked on, and I'd love to see ALL the races include their native languages on occasion. More voice and picture selection (and keep NPC portraits unavailable as PC portrait options) per race and class would be wonderful.

From Fallout, I'd enjoy more animation from important NPC's and for key moments in the game. I liked the ones in BGII, but I'd like to see something more dramatic as in Fallout II when you get the oil barge operational.

One idea I'd like would be more realistic options of using diplomacy instead of combat. If one has a high charisma with diplomatic skills, the potential for negotiation should be more available.

Since it's a crpg, and the Ranger & Druid must forego their animal companions, and the Paladin must forego the mount before, either make it a possibility or include a fun alternative. Minsc has "Boo," but a companion should do more than take up a quick slot.

A Balor should look different than a Cambion, and I'd love to see more appearance alterations for the characters besides selecting skin/hair/clothes color. If it's a better engine, NPC's can expand beyond the 3-5 body types and stock voices.

I think a return to Baldur's Gate would be fun. Somewhere in the game, anywhere, seeing a bigger, more complex city would be fun.

Tired of trying to get anywhere in NWN2 without coming to a screeching halt on an infinite "Unpacking module..." message, but it has inspired nostalgic thoughts of BG and what I'd love to see in a new CRPG.

More psuedo-non-linearity - not like Morrowwind's "Go anywhere! I don't care!", but more like BG2's huge areas that were not part of the main storyline, but were substantial parts of the experience and could be done at any time. In NWN2, there are a few small little dungeons off to the side, but the story is highly linear. You want to form a party of character x, y, z? Sorry, you can't get x till the end of episode I; y isn't available until II, and if you want z, well, sorry, gotta wait till III.

In BG2, a lot of the fun of replayability was putting together a whole new team. Right out of the dungeon, I could go to the Shadow Temple to get Mazzy, Eyeless Beholder to get Kheldorn, help Nalia, etc, then (with a couple of exceptions) I could play most of the game with the team of my choice.

Isometric view - I like the transition Blizzard made to a 3-D engine for WCIII. Yeah, it was 3-D, but the gameplay still required a tactical isometric view, and that's what they gave the player along with the ability to zoom in and rotate. I like to look down on my party and see the whole battlefield, select each and give them their orders. The NWN2/KotOR method of 3rd person, shift perspective everytime you switched to a new character didn't add anything, imo.

The PS:T type of character background/interaction.

Unlike an apparent majority on this board, I actually liked the powerful items in BG2. Very few were actually game-altering ("The Cloak" being a notable exception), but they did add flavor. Who wasn't in awe when they first got the Celestial Fury? Or the Crom Faeyr? They became items to assign character proficiencies around. For the replays, I would decide that Minsc, for example, was going to wield the Spectral Brand, or the Ravager, or one of many other cool weapons that I didn't try the first time around. I'm not talking necessarily about powerful weapons - I never used the Staff of Rhynn and I can't tell you a single weapon I remember or could care less about from NWN, PS:T, or IWD - but memorable "brand-name" weapons. Besides, I hardly think anyone can honestly say BG2 was too easy, given the number of posts on how to take this, that, or the other fight. (And no, I'm not 15; 2x+) Besides, some of my toughest fights in replays came about trying to get weapons like Celestial Fury early.

No BG1 wildernesses, please! - I'm too obsessive-compulsive. I prefer to have a good reason to go to a place other than the neurological disorder that compels me to clear - lawnmower style - every speck of black off a map just because it's there. I liked the random encounters of BG2 to throw some unexpectedness into the mix.

Armies! - One of the most subtly poignant moments for me in ToB was after you lay waste to the army at the Oasis, then read the letter on the Captain's body from his Queen. They may have been a crack regiment, but against the archdruids, archmages, master assassins, and demigods in your party, they didn't have a chance - and the Queen knew it, but felt she had no choice but to send them and her friend out against you. What would your good character feel like after that? Or your evil character?

In a game the size of BG2, not every encounter has to be mechanically crafted to the precise level of difficulty for your party's current level. That's fine for Diablo, not for an RPG. A sense of reality demands that you don't have perfect rules that say "Ok, your only level X, so the treasure off this guys is only going to be level Y", or "Ok, you can't go here, you can't handle this yet, wait another level". The occasional weak or overpowering group to add flavor to the story or to your sense of your character's position is much needed. The orcs, for instance, on the way to Fierkraag's dungeon are a huge nuisance in chapter 6. Having your sorceror or a mage realize that by contemptuously flicking a skull trap or fireball to immediately vaporize them all is great, particularly when you then run into lich or a dragon not long after.

I liked the BG, BG2, ToB opponent progression, for the most part. It's difficult to realistically explain why all the deepest darkest dungeons in BG are filled with kobolds and those in BG2 are filled with illithids and mindflayers and vampires. Or how your demi-god character is challenged by ToB. The story has to tell why your peaceful (?) universe is swarming with terrible enemies, or why you've sought them out. The Bhaalsiblings/armies provided that pretty well, I thought.

Finally, the great usage of abilities by opponents - one of the reasons I loved BG2 so much was the awesome use of magic on the other side. Tactical magic like Remove Fear, Dispel Magic, Free Action, etc became incredibly important and gave a reason to carefully allocate your spells between utility and flashy damage spells. The domination, time stop, gating, insect plague, cloak of fear, maze, imprisonment, wing buffet, contingencies, weapon immunity, etc were all killers that spawned hundreds of "Need help with <new challenge>!" Liches were feared in BG2, a joke in NWN. I want to see the opponents go nuts with creative ways to ruin my day.

I dream...

my (somewhat ranty) reply

First of all hello to everyone, this is my first post here I ask you please don't get offended by my post(s), as sarcasm and over-abundance of somewhat offensive examples tend to tick people off. Also, i apologize for any mistakes i make, since English is not my native language. Enough about me, prepare for long and off-topic packed post. Feel free to skip to the end - you twelve year-old! (in my world, that is an insult and i was pleasantly surprised that I'm not the only one). So, first things first: What would i like to see in BG3?

Well, for one thing, the setting should be Faerun, as the other parts of Toril are terrible copies of real world civilizations (sry. Mr. Greenwood, but that's the truth) No Kara-Tur nunjas and samurai, nor Arabic Calimshan or whatever the names of those pseudo ancient Greece and Egypt civs were.

The story should be in-depth, large scale, and fascinating. Complete with uber villain, just like any normal fantasy story has. Just don't PLEASE, give us the predictable Hollywood-style c%*p we see all around us today. *BG2 spoiler alert* (btw concerning the discussion on weather Sarevok > Irenicus or vice versa, i personally find Irenicus and Bodhi to be superb characters, filling their roles perfectly. Great voice acting and great appearance make them truly "alive". My fisrt time trough the game i was in awe when i saw John splatter those cowled wizards.. Especially when he broke free from Spellhold and said his infamous line "I cannot be caged! I cannot be controlled! Know this as you die, ever pathetic, ever fools!" I was truly fascinated by him and his sister, i wanted to know more about their story, i wanted to see what happens, as it was obvious that he pushed the story forward, on a level above my own. Finally, i wanted to see how the hell am i supposed to beat him.. Too bad the Cloak of Cheese ruined it for me. But i'll get to that later)

On the note of getting R.A. Salvatore on the storyline - please NO! My respects to all his fans, i have read his Drizzt books, up until Sojourn (including it), and i am not impressed. He is a mediocre writer, with too much commercialism seeping in his books. And the language he uses is just innapropriate for a high fantasy setting such as Faerun. The Drizzt books are predictable and can't get near the epic and truly great stories told by Tolkein, Zelazny, Robert Jordan and G.R.R. Martin (in no particular order). Furthermore please, for the love of originality ENOUGH WITH DRIZZT ALREADY! I am sick and tired of little powergaming fanlings of the books, creating drow fighter/rangers dual wielding scimitars. Go play Need for Speed, or Fifa 2007 or whatever c%*p the young gamers play today, and leave BG to us! (just for the record, i'm 21 but i have played through most, if not all, of the classical old games. MM7 is my all-time favorite i think..)

The proposal by someone here, that Drizzt should be the protagonist in BG3 just made me consider slicing my guts open if that ever became a reality. Same thing with the poster suggesting we get to battle the Tarasque. The TARASQUE for crying out loud! Excuse me, but that smacks of "I want the biggest baddetst the best ownpwnomfg carnage of death!" This creature is created like that (high on indestructible) for a reason, and should not be a part of a normal RPG with normal characters! Why don't you ask for Elminster and Lord Ao's avatar to join you in the fray, while giving you a Ginormous Soulscuking Two-Handed sword o' Doom + 12... I will not even bother commenting on the proposal that we start BG3 as a GOD and go on a grand GODSLAYING crusade - the absurdity speaks for itself.

I read an interview with Ed Greenwood somewhere, and he said that it was in peoples' nature to be fascinated with the biggest and most overpowerded monsters and characters, even the guys he payed PnP with! Bu he restricted them for their own sake! He gave the example of how his adventurers stumbled upon an islad where the Serpent Queen was casting a spell. True to the fine adventuring spirit, our bunch decided to whack her with their swords and clubs. She simply waved a hand, disintegrated the island and continued on with her spell, while levitating. That's how it is - these powers are awesome, abnormal and should NOT be implemented in BG3. I for one, do not wish to play Superman & Friends 3.

This (to a lesser extent) goes to the poster suggesting for the setting to be The Time of Troubles. That would ruin the game! If our party was realistic enough, we would have to play in the shadow of the cataclysm taking place around us. But who wants to save the farmer from kobolds, when a mile down the road Bhaal and Mystra are dueling with cosmic energies! On the other hand, if the party was powerfull enough to actually make a difference, it would have to be composed of several well known characters in Faerun (think Elminster) So that's that.

About the engine, i strongly suggest it's a brand new, prettily drawn 2D engine! Don't give me that commercial 3D c%*p, i know that you 12 year olds want everything to look like Quake 8, but that doesn't suit the BG series gameplay and style! And the example in the case of War Craft is irrelevant, since the graphics are cartoony and blocky, and the game lacks detail and atmosphere! The undead are a bunch of gray and purple pansies!

I would like to see all those things some of the posters mentioned, such as extensive npc interaction and so forth. Cheers to that!

And last but not least, i would like it if seriously overpowered items and classes were restricted and/or nerfed in some way that doesn't contradict the rules. The majority of the game should be a challenge! I palyed trough BG, IWD and TOEE, and can give you my little list of complete "imbas": *note: BG and IWD spoilers below*

1 - by far. TIMESTOP. GG no RE as the WC3 community would say. No way to resist it, unless you're immune, and only 2 opponents in the game are.

2 - Cloak of Mirroring. This makes you completely immune to magic, spare for domination and imprisonment. A berserker wielding this is just one big cheese vendor. Completely ruines the game, with you being able to solo the Coweld Wizards encounter, Irenicus, the Beholder City and just about every spell caster in the game. Items like that should not be included in further BG games.

3 - Sorcerers! be it BG or IWD2, this class is completely overpowered, capable of soloing the game with ease (more like blasting holes trough it). I have no idea about how the devs can fix this. The only trouble i had, was with Isair and Madae. And that got quickly remedied.

4 - Thief traps, backstab and use any item, as was pointed out, but they have been fixed/removed in the 3.5 ruleset.

There's more but i better stop, as my post became huge and full with off-topic banter If you read trough - congratulations! You get the Mithrill Pantaloons!

Sator wrote: There's more but i better stop, as my post became huge and full with off-topic banter If you read trough - congratulations! You get the Mithrill Pantaloons!

Wow, what a posting, I tend to agree with the overpowering aspects that are mentioned. Even without all the mods out there I tend to try to play RPG's without cheesy items, makes them more challenging.

ps. Send the Pantaloons through Santa :laugh:

Well as we all know BG2 and IWD1/2 could provide enough cheese to sustain a medium sized French town for a year or so... Oh, one thing i forgot to add was my view on low-lvl limited rpg's (ToEE in partrcular). If BG3 was to be made with a lvl cap like that, it would be severely limited in potential and overall length and fun. While we (I) don't want Superparty 3.0, trudging around with +2 equipment and beating on poor goblins and bugbears the whole game, while saying something like: "Mhar har har i've gots a FIREBALL! Tremble before my awesome might!" is equally boring. I think a balance should be carefully sought, but the dev's shouldn't wimp out and cut the levels in half of what they should be, because they would be too lazy to make all the spells above lvl 5... And furthermore that doesn't remove balance issues, it just makes someone else the imba-'o-the-day. Anyone who saw a figther WW with a Glavie in ToEE knows what i'm talking about. And, about the Mithrill Pantaloons - they will have to be sent through Jan Jansen and his "Magical Turnip Carriage Service", seeing as Santa has been captured by Irenicus and is now being... experimented on.

I've always thought Jan resembled Santa anyways!:laugh:

Yes but younger, slimmer and more dashing. Jan is a swashbuckling, turnip packing, bada$$ version of Santa

btw BlueSky i love your nick. I myself use Azure-Sky quite alot, along with Lunarion.

Sator wrote:Yes but younger, slimmer and more dashing. Jan is a swashbuckling, turnip packing, bada$$ version of Santa

btw BlueSky i love your nick. I myself use Azure-Sky quite alot, along with Lunarion.

Thanks.....the name has numerous meanings to me, have used it in various forms for many years now.

oh well.....sorry for the off-topic!

2nd edition rules is crucial for me, if it's 3rd or 3.5 I simply wont buy the game.

Oh, and no level cap so low you run into it long before getting to the end of the game.

I hate Drizzt. I would rather have bumped into Cadderly or some other character...never cared much for him. I am 100% old school, no 3ed or 3.5ed or 3.9 to the third power edition whatever it is up to now. I was upset when they brought out 2nd edition. The game wouldn't be BG if they changed editions. Maybe I'm just old...

Just to clarify, not all 10-15 year olds want uber-pwnage weapons and the like. I was 10 when I first played BG (BG2 was my first), and instead of just wanting the super-weapons, I wanted to have a dynamic party, and learn more about Irenicus and the storyline.

I'm 15 now, and mainly play RPGs, and that was the let down of NWN1 for me. Even with the new NWN2, I'm in the Act 1, and in the first area I already have a +1 mace, wihch is ridiculous.

Also have Stronholds. Strongholds were dynamic and nice, and you could have tatical RTS style battles to defend your Stronghold (ala Act 2 NWN:HoTU).

Also Strongholds dont have to be castles. THey could be Wizard's Towers, Chruches or Ranger's Huts.

balance

back in PnP days, it took ages before we got any magic weapons and even then, it was usually a +1 dagger. weapon breakage used to happen and the party was often not wealthy enough to have spare swords. raising the few coins for a night at the inn, rather than a night in the ditch was sometimes a challenge in itself.

a wizard's usefulness was often limited to one magic missile and the ability to detect magic - either the wizard or the thief got the +1 weapon.

I think there is a case for 'superior' weaponry which isn't magical - there is low grade kit, standard kit and high grade - so that characters can get more protection and better weapon use without an excess of magical equipment. wizards have a lot more to do than churn out +1 longswords and maces. perhaps a holy order might have one or two special items, but not routinely.
all that mundane equipment makes the player really appreciate the end of a quest when they find a +1 shield, a helm of infravision and a +1 longsword - not only that but 200 gp!

the routine monsters will be kobolds, orcs and wild creatures with the remainder to depend on location - giant snakes, bugbears, ogres and the occasional giant. the challenge was in the way it was set up - you needed to be smart to actually find the starting point of the quest, which might involve why a few undead were rising, children disappearing, mysterious things happening etc - going to a castle might involve facing just one vampire at the end - but one who might have bitten two or three of the party on the way in.

[a magic missile should really be able to cripple an orc etc]

In game terms, these kind of adventures are easy to implement and there is no reason why difficult progression can't be compensated for by a good plot - look at the games that allow allocation of skill points - like Vampire The Masquerade - the progression is slow and it is a while before the PC has to deal with other supernaturals - yet the story and missions are compelling.

If I were to suggest a writer to create the milieu, I would go for Robin Hobb - her worlds are believable, yet the enemies are challenging. It also involves mental powers. for the use of psionics "Hiero's Journey" was rather good too.

I think it is easy to get hung up on uber-heroes and think that a few fancy magic items will fix things - yet there is so much more to fantasy RPG - I liked the sentient magic sword Lilacor in BG2 - but it could have been so much better. weapons with a mind of their own, which can take control of a character are exciting - a cleric that wishes to use discretion but has a +3 mace that cannot tolerate it's opposing alignment and takes over - creating a melee that nobody wants - hell, that is challenging. in PnP days, there were items like that - when a magic item was powerful, there was often a risk or a down side - balance.

I'd like balanced game-play, and CHA/alignment having much more effect.
what about if a LG MU uses a fireball which kills innocents by accident? or a L cleric that unleashes a demon? those kinds of actions should have more consequence. I also like the idea that NPCs operate on a web of interaction and might cooperate/not cooperate based on what the party has done, who they have spoken with etc - even LG NPCs will not trust these reckless adventurers who turn up.

I want a story thats has some thread to the other games. I dont want it to be a game with a bunch of graphic details and effects, I just want a good story and fun playing.

I want the graphics to be something in touch with bg2, like some cool drawings and something like that. I don´t want the npc´s avatars to be digital, just some cool drawings.

And when you wanna look at your wepon´s or armor´s details pumps up a huge cool drawing of it like in the previous games .

some things i would love to see is maybe jarlaxle and artemis entreri. or just jarlaxle if artemis is dead. and maybe be able to do some mercenary work for bregan da'erthe(Spelling?) and be able to join the mercenary band after a while. and go to vassa and see the paladin king kinda like in the book. and travel to menzoberanzan and luskan and actually be able to walk from town to town in ice wind dale.
i would also like to see some of the spells discribed in books like faerie fire and globe of darkness (drow). and if your a high level wizard you could create spells like elminster did when he was training to be a wizard and stuff like that. deffinetely keep the same game engine for the game. keep it 2d/3d like bgI and bgII.

Baldur's Gate II:SoA is an awesome game.I like it so much because it is very much like an interactive book.The characters you meet in the world of BG,they seem to be almost alive,I want to cry,when they die,I believe their words.
This is what I want to see in BG 3.I want to see more love stories,more feelings,more dialogues,characters with their own lives.

Yes. The character interaction is what separates BG II from other games. I would love to see that in more depth. More interaction from more characters...

Elvis wrote:Ditto!

This suggestion might be sacrilege to some, but I'd love to see the newest incarnation done in ultra high quality 3D.

The isometric view is still enjoyjoyable, yes, but it's had its day.

Why not move on and take advantage of all that today's graphics have to offer?

I don't think 3D would diminish the game in the least.

In fact, I think it would enhance the gameplay dramatically.

If the developers boldly forge into new territory by giving us a sensational new 3D interface, good on them, I say.

3D would have to be done really well because it can break a game. Take NWN 2 for instance, the camera was so broken it made me quit playing.

what i want in bg3

to me bg2 was a let down, tough characters, weak opponents. i would like to see (in bg3) new classes, new weapons, and definitly the onyx tower and onyx sword, maybe a new place and in the end u finally get to baulders gate only to be captured by drow and find out everyone in baulders gate is dead. u see a group of people right as u r shoved into the crypts. i think that that would make a good ending...

the pit

If you have ever played second editon there is an adventure called the PIT and basically its a dungeon with HIGH lvl monsters I.E. 3 black dragon 10 vamps and demons...at once. this becomes the only option for adventures at high levls when playing Outward Adventures. so skill quests and mental challenges with a huge ending like battleing against A Necromancer just barely imprisoned by a godly alliance of many gods of the realm. (one of my personal adventures) are the most fun because it challenges the player and not the players character. So in summation What do i want in the new BG? a pit to waste my time in then DEYSTROY THE WORLD AROUND ME because realy what person in there right mind would stand against you after you surrived the pit. because inward adventures are nearly imposible on a PC unless it is specifically tailored to challenge you, which what makes D&D so much friggin fun. btw....the pit is never ending.

I want to have Kivan in my party again!