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Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2002 6:09 pm
by at99
Originally posted by humanflyz:
<STRONG>Thank you Vivien.
@at99:
I am sorry if I made it sound like that Tolkien invented Elves in fantasy books. What I meant to say is that Tolkien made up his own language, and then created someone to speak it.
[ 01-02-2002: Message edited by: humanflyz ]</STRONG>
You seemed to know what he did but I wanted to know why he did it?
Was it for fun, deeper lost cultural meaning,
to make money on good mythology?
Anyone can jump in on this question.
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2002 7:08 pm
by ThorinOakensfield
Tolkein wanted to create mythology for Britain because he felt that there was not enough.
Middle Earth and all is supposed to be our Earth back long time ago.
Hobbits represent the English people.
THe Anglo-saxon bit comes in too.
The Harfoot, Fallohides and Stoor are from the Angles, Saxons and Jutes.
The Dwarves are from Norse mythology. Tolkein borrowed names from the book the Edda.
Elves are based on the Celts. Wood people.
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2002 8:05 pm
by at99
Originally posted by ThorinOakensfield:
<STRONG>Tolkein wanted to create mythology for Britain because he felt that there was not enough.
Middle Earth and all is supposed to be our Earth back long time ago.
Hobbits represent the English people.
THe Anglo-saxon bit comes in too.
The Harfoot, Fallohides and Stoor are from the Angles, Saxons and Jutes.
The Dwarves are from Norse mythology. Tolkein borrowed names from the book the Edda.
Elves are based on the Celts. Wood people.</STRONG>
Thanks for the response.
There was more than enough mythology in Britain (which includes dwarves) so that is a non-issue.
How does the anglo-saxon part come into all of this. I was unaware of a great mythology attributed to anglo-saxons or England.
This does not answer the why question though.
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2002 11:52 am
by humanflyz
@at99:
Here's your original question:
Why did tolkein do something like this?
By "this" I assume you mean all of Tolkien's works regarding Middle-Earth. I think the answers that Vivien, Thorin, and I provided is sufficient enough to answer your question.
In the letter to Milton Waldman that's in the preface of the Silmarillion, Tolkien remarked that Britain's mythology is not original, it's mostly influenced by Celtic folklores and Welsh folklores. Tolkien even thought that the Arthurian legends unoriginal because he considered it influenced by Welsh folklore and mythology.
Tolkien did all this work because he wanted to create an original mythology for Britain, although his mythology is heavily influenced by the Eddas and Celtic folklore.
[ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: humanflyz ]
[ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: humanflyz ]
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2002 6:00 pm
by at99
Originally posted by humanflyz:
<STRONG>@at99:
Here's your original question:
Why did tolkein do something like this?
By "this" I assume you mean all of Tolkien's works regarding Middle-Earth. I think the answers that Vivien, Thorin, and I provided is sufficient enough to answer your question.
In the letter to Milton Waldman that's in the preface of the Silmarillion, Tolkien remarked that Britain's mythology is not original, it's mostly influenced by Celtic folklores and Welsh folklores. Tolkien even thought that the Arthurian legends unoriginal because he considered it influenced by Welsh folklore and mythology.
Tolkien did all this work because he wanted to create an original mythology for Britain, although his mythology is heavily influenced by the Eddas and Celtic folklore.
[ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: humanflyz ]
[ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: humanflyz ]</STRONG>
I guess my question of why Tolkein created his works was meant to provoke thought (I dont know the answer) and not provoke people.
However your answers do not explain things.
You dont know much about British history right? or thorin
Celtic mythlogy is British (and is vast) and England is not Britain.
So your answers to mytholgy not being originally British but Welsh and Celtic dont make sense at all. Neither does the Arthurian argument.
It still begs question why he did?
I dont mean to annoy people but I am not getting the answers.
Wheres Fable on all of this?
[ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: at99 ]
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2002 6:12 pm
by ThorinOakensfield
Yo, Tolkein wanted to make his own mythology for the area, because he felt that there was not enough.
He said that. I haven't made it up.
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2002 6:22 pm
by Vivien
Edit.
[ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: Vivien ]
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2002 6:36 pm
by at99
Originally posted by ThorinOakensfield:
<STRONG>Yo, Tolkein wanted to make his own mythology for the area, because he felt that there was not enough.
He said that. I haven't made it up.</STRONG>
I am not doubting what you heard but the area of Britain had load of mythology and this statement would not make sense. I am sceptical that he said this himself.
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2002 2:31 am
by thantor3
Originally posted by at99:
<STRONG> I dont mean to annoy people but I am not getting the answers.
Wheres Fable on all of this?
</STRONG>
Fable has stated that he has decided to stop posting in SYM. I am beginning to understand why...
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2002 2:41 am
by at99
Originally posted by thantor3:
<STRONG>Fable has stated that he has decided to stop posting in SYM. I am beginning to understand why...
</STRONG>
People are allowed to argue things.
I think there is only so much SPAM a person can take.
I expect Fable will come back in time (I think it needs it!!).
this SYM suffers from SPAM and under age topics and responses IMHO.
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2002 2:52 am
by thantor3
Originally posted by at99:
<STRONG> this SYM suffers from SPAM and under age topics and responses IMHO.</STRONG>
As has been masterfully demonstrated...
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2002 2:55 am
by dragon wench
originally posted by at99:
this SYM suffers from SPAM and under age topics and responses IMHO.
Indeed......
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2002 2:59 am
by thantor3
Originally posted by dragon wench:
<STRONG> Indeed......
</STRONG>
LOL! Great minds and synchronicity ......
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2002 3:23 am
by Gruntboy
I saw this again last night and it only improved my impression of it.
I think it is a masterful adaption of the books to the screen. Once you accept that, the cuts are acceptable.
When Boromir first gets hit some kid in the front row, distraught, screamed "OH NO!" I was LMAO, thinking "If you'd read the books".
I think the Orcs and Uruk Hai are amazing. The Games Workshop are doing a fantastic line of LOTR miniatures, think I'll do me a band of travelling Uruk Hai.
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2002 3:58 am
by Kayless
Originally posted by Gruntboy:
<STRONG>I think the Orcs and Uruk Hai are amazing. The Games Workshop are doing a fantastic line of LOTR miniatures, think I'll do me a band of travelling Uruk Hai.
</STRONG>
So far all the models are looking great.
I'm planning to get them all, but the Mordor Orcs and Uruk Hai will look damn strange compared to my Warhammer Army of Orcs and Goblins. Distant cousins maybe...
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2002 10:08 am
by Vivien
at99,
I deleted my other post because I don't like to get into any form of negativity unless it involves abusing Fas or Gruntboy or Foul in some way.
(Heck I still feel bad that Dottie may think I misunderstood him
)
I don't have any idea as to what you're 'getting at', but you tend to insert slight slams (you don't know much about history being one) and reject the opinions/information of others off hand if it doesn't work for you. That's fine, but you reject facts, as in Humanflyz and Thorin's FACTS about Tolkien's opinion about English myth, you choose to say that you are 'skeptical ' that he said it at all. That's just not fair to them, or to yourself, and does NOT lead to fair discussion...
Just had to say something...
[ 01-04-2002: Message edited by: Vivien ]
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2002 5:56 pm
by at99
Originally posted by Vivien:
<STRONG>at99,
I deleted my other post because I don't like to get into any form of negativity unless it involves abusing Fas or Gruntboy or Foul in some way.
(Heck I still feel bad that Dottie may think I misunderstood him
)
I don't have any idea as to what you're 'getting at', but you tend to insert slight slams (you don't know much about history being one) and reject the opinions/information of others off hand if it doesn't work for you. That's fine, but you reject facts, as in Humanflyz and Thorin's FACTS about Tolkien's opinion about English myth, you choose to say that you are 'skeptical ' that he said it at all. That's just not fair to them, or to yourself, and does NOT lead to fair discussion...
Just had to say something...
[ 01-04-2002: Message edited by: Vivien ]</STRONG>
C'mon VIV.
Did you read my posts eleswhere.
I suggets you read it .
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2002 7:13 pm
by T'lainya
Let's keep this both on topic and civil. Please use this thread to discuss the movie.
---T'
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2002 8:44 pm
by Vivien
Originally posted by at99:
<STRONG>C'mon VIV.
Did you read my posts eleswhere.
I suggets you read it .</STRONG>
Whatever. And I did, you STILL seem insulting of others.
T'lainya,
I'm sorry.
Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2002 6:36 am
by Georgi
Originally posted by Gruntboy:
<STRONG>I saw this again last night and it only improved my impression of it.</STRONG>
I've seen it 3 times now, and I'm not bored of it yet
And I think you're right about Arwen's beefed role - of course, I've still seen reviews complaining about the lack of female roles in the movie. Maybe we should be thankful that in the interests of equality they didn't make a few of the Fellowship female - hey, if Sam was female, then Frodo could have a love interest...