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You guys are so so so dumb. I am NOT using the movies/stories as examples to why the dark side is stronger. That is what you are doing. i am just showing that YOUR reasons are weak. My reason is very strong.....George Lucas said so. Its up to him. Not my decision to interprit which is stronger, not yours, George said it is stronger, so it is.

Show me the Quote where GL says undiniably that the dark sides stronger. As far as weak arguments go you take the crown saying that Jedi only win because of stupid circumstances which may happen once or twice but will not happen constantly over a 7,000 + year period. But please show us this quote and possible a link to a page written by GL that i can read it on. And buddy the entire star wars universe is built around those movies saying the movie is wrong does nothing but flaw all the rest of the star wars universe.

I am not saying the light side wins through luck, or that the result of the wars shows that light/dark is stronger.......I am saying that it is FALSE to say : 'because light side wins the wars it is not possible for the dark side to be stronger'. That is what you seem to be arguing, and that is FALSE. It is perfectly feisble that the dark side be stronger and also lose every war. If you cant undertand that then i can't be bothered to try and explain further.

Anyway, it is nothing to do with that. Cant you get that through your thick skull? you probably have wet dreams about being a jedi and dont want to accept it, but GL said 'the dark side is stronger'. It doesnt matter who won what wars, it is irrelivent. In GLs universe he makes the rules. Simple.
I am not saying the movies are wrong. They are not 'wrong'. Your stupid interpritation of the movies is wrong.
BTW Gl said it on the commentry to AOTC. Go buy the DVD.

[QUOTE=dorian_gray]you IDIOT!!! Read my post. I am not saying they ONLY win because of that. I am saying that it is FALSE to say that because they win the wars dark side cannot be stronger. Other factors could be involved. That is a correct statement.
Gl said it on the commentry to AOTC. Idiot.[/QUOTE]

Dorian, you might temper the rhetoric down a notch. Calling someone an idiot or dumb in a post is really not good form.

yeah well i edited it.

@dorian_gray:
Please watch the language while debating on these boards.
We have a strict forum rules as set up by the board administrator Buck Satan (which everybody should read at least once) - one of them states:

#1 - Flaming, humiliating, ridiculing, or belittling other members will not be tolerated. If you have an issue with another member, take it to private messages or email.

Calling people idiots, stupid or what not, because they either disagrees with you, doesn't see your point or what not, falls into this catagory.
So please watch the language and discuss on a more mature level.

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My TWO+ Cents

Ok my First penny goes to the fact this thread is about KOTOR III not about DS vs LS. Now that I have said this let me make me mad becaues my Second penny says that the DS is not stronger than the LS, it just seems this way. The DS is supposed to be more appealing and be the easiest and quickest way to master the force.

I am not siding with either camp but check the movies, Obi Wan only killed Darth Maul by pure luck and overconfidence by Maul. Overconfidence is one of the DS's downfalls because both the Emperor and Maul didn't see it comming. Vader did bring balance to the force because he was a bad guy who went good, and in the SW universe that is fairly rare.

There are two reasons that DS always seems to loose in SW history is because Star Wars is a MOVIE! The good tends to prevail over evil in most movie (Yes we can all name one where LS doesn't win). Another reason that LS won in the SW past is because the Jedi serve the republic. They would have a difficult time serving the republic at the time just before the Empire if it had been completely destoyed at the time of Revan. And Revan would not have a story if the republic had been killed by Exar Kun. Also saying that the Empire didn't win isn't fair. They won probably more than in KOTOR I or II because there was nearly no rebellion. Again LucasArts likes making the You Vs. The Galaxy storylines. Thank you.

EDIT:
The Emperor took over the republic over time, each step in I, II, and III are according to plan. Emp was 'overthrown' by a enemy 25 years later. He won, no victory - except total anilation of both sides - is a perfect victoy. The Sith of the past were always fighting the republic head on not in the legal and government ways that the Emp used. They fell to themselves (inner rivalry) and soon republic became power again. Emp. held power from time he was incharge to his death 25 years later. Not many of the old sith can say that.

p.s. Sith in KOTOR were Ex-Jedi. Emperor was all politician how did that happen?

--Tovec

Vader did bring balance to the force because he was a bad guy who went good, and in the SW universe that is fairly rare.

I always assumed that Vader brought balance to the force because he was the one who killed the emperor. Yoda says in ep1 that there are always 2 sith. A master and an apprentice. Not only does Vader kill the emperor, but he dies doing it. Wiping out the sith chain.

[QUOTE=qt 3.14159]I always assumed that Vader brought balance to the force because he was the one who killed the emperor. Yoda says in ep1 that there are always 2 sith. A master and an apprentice. Not only does Vader kill the emperor, but he dies doing it. Wiping out the sith chain.[/QUOTE]

Yes that is exactly it. The rules were used by Vader to bring balance. Luke and Leia were just tools to the end ("I am your father" & "There is another child"), they were not the ones who defeated the Emperor and broke the chain.

p.s. Remember the Sith code: Peace - Passion - Strength - Power - Victory - Chains Broken, all of which Vader did and killed the Emp. to break the chain.

EDIT:
Why are there always two? Yoda said it but in KOTOR that is constantly disproven. It is more valid in the case of Jedi - Obi and Vader, if you forget the council

At least ONE Major Space Battle, (maybe one big one and a few minor skermishes throughout the game). Including you commanding the Ebon Hawk, fighting through enemy fighters, pickets, to get to the main enemy Starcruiser and ..... leave that to the devs.

Someone else mentioned a Great land battle or war in which at least the main character, if not his entire party, would participate where his actions would directly affect the outcome of the battle. This is another great idea I would like to see played out.

Lightsabers need to do MASSIVE damage. Both giving AND receiving. I mean come on, there was ONE time when I actully sweated vs a lightsaber and that was the end vs the three summoned lighsabers when fighting Keria. And I STILL kicked their arses while only taking maybe half damage, and that's only because I screwed up and got myself pinned against a pillar and was forced to fight my way clear. When you face off against someone and you hear that..."fizzzzz"...it should make you pause for a moment to consider the situation and the sanctity of your hide.

Let me choose the race of my own toon. And those races should, (and would), have they're own racial positive and negative benifits as far as skills, jedi classes, jedi powers and melee skills are concerned. This would make some interesting Jedi specialists, while humans would remain generalists.

Perhaps the ability to make your OWN high level custom armor, weapons and gear? This skill would be at very high levels and cost at least double the skill points. This might be a bit over the top, but it would be GREAT.

One last thing....Vehicles and the animation of using/riding them to go with it to move quickly from one zone to another. And perhaps even a mission where you have to fight from a moving vehichle.

Why are there always two? Yoda said it but in KOTOR that is constantly disproven. It is more valid in the case of Jedi - Obi and Vader, if you forget the council

There is only two Sith (Master & Apprentice) because that was the rule established by Darth Bane following the last great war between Jedi and Sith some 1000 years before movies. After he got missing the remaining Sith decided to use "Thought Bomb" (don't ask what it is) to wipe out all Jedi on the planet they were fighting. Bomb worked, but it killed all Force sensitives on the planet except for Darth Bane and a kid that become his apprentice. Following that debacle Bane made a rule that there will always be only two Sith and that they will try to gain control using subterfuge and cunning instead raw power - that's why Palpatine was a politican.

Redclaw, only one more thing to add - make force powers useless against other force users so that you had to use lightsabers.

Well make it much more dependant on the level of your character against the enemy level. Would be a waste of time using the Jedi Master/Consular class then, since all the difficult enemies are force users - you'd have to put in some SERIOUS class specific buffing powers or something to make it worth taking.

Plus for example, people like Dooku more or less totally outclassed Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker in the Geonosis hangar duel, both in the use of the force and in lightsaber combat. And Luke didn't stand a chance against the Emperor's force attacks. So maybe you should implement a new saving system which is based primarily on the (force-users) level, with maybe an additional dice role. Also make a Consular's level worth 1.5 and a Master's level worth 2 in a to-hit and defence system, which would make the class more powerful (rightly so) in the force. This is much better than having force-users immune to the force. Most non-force users would then have little to no resistance to force powers, except for maybe a select few.

"Redclaw, only one more thing to add - make force powers useless against other force users so that you had to use lightsabers."

Not useless, but Jedi and Sith should definitely have more resistance vs. the force. Something else I would like to see is Force Telekinesis, where you can pick up objects using the force and use them as missiles against your enemies or obstacles. Classic Luke vs Darth.

Yeah, since all of us are sith lords...

Bao dur was was a good character because you had a relationship with hi that Kreia had no influence on. That was very important considering she had it in for you from the begining...

Manaan is actually one of the better planets in KOTOR...compare it to Tatooine, which required large amounts of running across vast expanses of sand dunes...if anything is boring it's running around the dune sea...

Also, this thread is about what you WANT in Kotor 3, not what you don't want...

well if you disagree with having it in there then why not let him say so

Hey, Xandax, would you move the DS vs LS conversation to it's own thread, please. I don't think I can and I want to continue it but it has nothing to do with the thread its in. Thank you.

What I want

coruscant
alderaan
kashyyk
ryloth
corellia
fly ships
new game engine
no backwater worlds
Revan
No ebon hawk
translate droids
sheath unsheathe weapons

"make force powers useless against other force users so that you had to use lightsabers"

Useless was a stupid choice of word. What I mean was reduce Force power effectivness against other force users so you are stuck to using your lightsaber.

Am I the only one who feel like force powers in both games are either insanly powerfull (most of DS and direct damage dealers) or completly useless (Force Imunity/Resistance).
I mean lets compare force powers with D&D spells (I think it's safe to say that we all played D&D on P'nP or PC/XBox): all the force powers have a save DC that consist of 5+lvl+Wis bonus+Cha bonus which by the end of game become 55+ while character save bonus is equal to D&D (or more precisly Star Wars RPG). D&D spell have a save DC consisting of 10+spell level+Ability bonus+Misc bonus which even at high levels usualy don't get higher than 35.
Also all D&D spells that deal damage have a maximum damage cap based on spell level (Highest cap I can remember is Horrid Wilting 25d8); Force powers DO NOT have maximum damage cap.

I just hope that for KotoR III developers will choose to use existing Star Wars RPG Rules. It will have much more realistic (and in touch with existing SW universe) force powers than both KotoR and KotoR II