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I have only 3 votes....MORE VOTES FOR EVERYONE!!!!

mmmmmm.......i think we have to bring the discussion back to the topic.......
Post some nice question......
or answer to question done before.....

ok Edwin we don't want this topic to be more spam then information

btw no one is voting for himself are u ?

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TheDude Notorious Founder of The Shadow Guild,
Co-Founder of The Shadow Mages

-Sorcery and Shadow together as one, the arcane and the dark united. Through our knowledge and skill none can stand against us. We are as one, infallible and invincible. The Shadow Mages.-


-if i survive death, i probable survive everything-

i got to go now bye Edwin Garcia
see y'all later and try to post something non spam
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TheDude Notorious Founder of The Shadow Guild,
Co-Founder of The Shadow Mages

-Sorcery and Shadow together as one, the arcane and the dark united. Through our knowledge and skill none can stand against us. We are as one, infallible and invincible. The Shadow Mages.-

-if i survive death, i probable survive everything-

Ripped from the heart of the his parents' care at the ripe age of 14 months, Goshan was taken by shadow thieves in a raid that wiped out the harbor villiage of Tonto Quay. Raised by Maharik the thief elder, Goshan would learn the ways of the assassin. Training relentlessly under the expert tutelage of the Thief elder, Goshan quickly became a true assassin of the night and quickly adopted the blow pipe as his weapon of choice. Deadly accurate, Goshan became renowned for his expert marksmanship and loyalty to his fellow shadow thieves. Largely unknown across the land, Goshan was of the elite few in the Shadow Thieves assassin Guild. Not knowing the history of his true heritage, Goshan grew up amongst the Shadow Thieves not knowing any different.


Bows before the guild... I am here and willing to serve if you'll have me...

By the way, this character won me third runner up in the character creation competion for Baldur's Gate II and you'll notice that Goshan is indeed one of your thieves when you take Mae'Var's shadow guild So when you see him next, say hi to him for me, and keep him out of trouble

Edwin and all members of the Shadow Mage Guild,

Please enlighten my thoughts on the Assassin class. I really love playing the Thief class because of his backstabbing ability. And as mush as I would like to play the Assassin class, I'm having second thoughts because of his limitations.

They have very minimal theiving points to distribute every level. They only get proficiency level in weapons and fighting styles. Even if they have that x7 backstab multiplier, you still cannot abuse it because you dont have a good THACO (maybe not until almost at the end of the game).

Your opinion/advice will be appreciated. Thanks!

Originally posted by Edwin:
<STRONG>@ sigurd: we are not weak as thieves or mages alone, but kicking everybody's *$$ together is more fun

</STRONG>

Speaking separate from the guild, I have no problems hitting my target. Thac0? Is it a personal problem? jk

Actually, I read your question on assassins vs. kensai/thieves. I disagree on many points, though. I love the poison effects of a true assassin. Nulifies spellcasters (as if the backstab wasn't enough). I've never missed very much at all. The thac0 on an assassin is good enough when attacking unseen. Sure, it doesn't stand up to the kensai in straight combat ability, but that's fine with me. It makes the character more interesting from a strategy perspective. To each his own, I guess.

I won't even talk about it from a role playing perspective. Kensai/thief is a stretch. Not as bad as kensai/mage, but I won't go there.

Originally posted by Rail:
<STRONG>Speaking separate from the guild, I have no problems hitting my target. Thac0? Is it a personal problem? jk

Actually, I read your question on assassins vs. kensai/thieves. I disagree on many points, though. I love the poison effects of a true assassin. Nulifies spellcasters (as if the backstab wasn't enough). I've never missed very much at all. The thac0 on an assassin is good enough when attacking unseen. Sure, it doesn't stand up to the kensai in straight combat ability, but that's fine with me. It makes the character more interesting from a strategy perspective. To each his own, I guess.

I won't even talk about it from a role playing perspective. Kensai/thief is a stretch. Not as bad as kensai/mage, but I won't go there. </STRONG>

right you are Rail.
People have a tendency to dual to fighter for better THAC0 but really there is no problems hitting plus you won't get that X7 backstab for a F/T (do you know how fun it is to run around and kill big foes in one stab? )
do you solo or in a party? if in a party the mage has the knock spell so that you can use your skill points on stealth and pick pocket (your choise of courst)
I see him as a good and stabile class that is fun to play solo and in a party.

@Rail and Garcia: You guys make some very good points. I'd just like to add that you don’t even need to waste spells when Imoen will do just fine detecting traps and picking locks; allowing your assassin to neglect those skills and focus on the important ones.



“Help me! This is not a spell! I’m being electrocuted!!!”

[ 04-10-2001: Message edited by: Kayless ]

Assassins really are like snipers of today's military forces. Used right and they can be devastating.

I always build up the stealth first and locks/traps if there's no other thief in the party. Detect invis can be good. Set traps is also rather essential, if you have another thief or mage to open locks or set off traps. Even clerics can set off traps with summoned animals or skeletons.

I never worry about pick pockets as there are plenty of potions that can get you this when you need it. Why spend points on this when you can simply down a potion.

I soloed an assassin and also ran one through with a PC party. Assassins are great fun. They, like snipers, aren't built for face to face combat. They require thought, patience, and strategy. I like that. I realize, though, that not everyone is like me.

I agree with Rail. The assassin isn't meant to be a fighter... the main use I had for them was stealth, and backstabbing those nasty mages, thus clearing the path for the others to clean up. You'll be amazed at how really easy it is once you've taken out the key players with your assassin.

Except Beholders don't really get backstabbed, so you'll be in a bit of trouble taking them down...

yes rail vehemence garcia u are all right
i play assassin and it is really a great char. u kill almost everything with backstab/poison
the poison is really handy against mages all spells the want to cast are disturped by the poison.
face to face the aren't really good so run away and hide again
The potion of invis is a MUST for assassins, u can escape in difficult situations or just use it to backstab again.

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TheDude Notorious Founder of The Shadow Guild,
Co-Founder of The Shadow Mages

-Sorcery and Shadow together as one, the arcane and the dark united. Through our knowledge and skill none can stand against us. We are as one, infallible and invincible. The Shadow Mages.-


-if i survive death, i probable survive everything-

Rail, Kayless & Garcia,

Thank you, guys! I think you're right!

Maybe, I get used too much on the "fighter-side" of my Kensai/Thief.

Stealth and finesse, that's what Assassins are, right?!!

Thanks again!

Hello to our new members Vehemence (/very nice your story) and Pungyol....
About assassin kit, you have lees thief skill points, but you level up quickly as a thief, so you don't have to woory about that. Early in the game give your character points in what you think more useful (detect trap/disarm them IMO); later you'll be able to have high skill.
About the backstabb, it's invaluable...and very powerful with the poison damage.

Good i see the Shadow mages are growing......and the discussion is becoming really interesting.....

Originally posted by Edwin:
<STRONG>Hello to our new members Vehemence (/very nice your story) and Pungyol....
About assassin kit, you have lees thief skill points, but you level up quickly as a thief, so you don't have to woory about that. Early in the game give your character points in what you think more useful (detect trap/disarm them IMO); later you'll be able to have high skill.
About the backstabb, it's invaluable...and very powerful with the poison damage.

Good i see the Shadow mages are growing......and the discussion is becoming really interesting.....</STRONG>

Edwin,
Thanks for the welcoming remark!

Originally posted by Edwin:
<STRONG>Good i see the Shadow mages are growing......and the discussion is becoming really interesting.....</STRONG>

at last Edwin finaly our group is going somewhere

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TheDude Notorious Founder of The Shadow Guild,
Co-Founder of The Shadow Mages

-Sorcery and Shadow together as one, the arcane and the dark united. Through our knowledge and skill none can stand against us. We are as one, infallible and invincible. The Shadow Mages.-


-if i survive death, i probable survive everything-

Personally I prefer not to play a fighter/thief but there are of course certain perks to being one. Our Honored Patron, Artemis Enteri is in fact one (at least in 2nd edition). And in case any of you were wondering about Artemis’ stats, here they are strait from the Villain’s Lorebook (2nd edition):

Artemis Enteri
Lawful Evil, human male, thief 11 level / fighter 15th level
AC: -6 HP: 107 THAC0: 5 Number of Attacks: 5

STRENGTH 13
DEXTERITY 18
CONSTITUION 15
INTELLIGENCE 16
WISDOM 15
CHARISMA 13

Thieving Abilities:
Pick Pockets 80%
Open Locks 65%
Hide in Shadows 90%
Move Silently 99%
Detect Traps 50%

Proficiencies :
Crossbow *
Dagger *
Long Sword *
Short bow *
Short Sword *
Sling *
Staff *
Two-Weapons Style **

Magical Items: +4 Cloak of Protection, +4 dagger defender (life-stealer), +2 ring of protection, and a sword of wounding +1 (sometimes refered to as a saber).

This also brings me to another topic, that of superhuman stats. As you can see Artemis doesn’t have 18 in all his characteristics. So why do certain players feel they need such inhuman statistics? I myself like having a mortal PC, one with realistic stats. It’s fine if you have 18 in a few characteristics, but to have a combined total of more then 90 is just overkill. Having varied stats also helps from a Role-playing standpoint since your character has his own strengths and weaknesses and isn’t as smart as a mage, as strong as a barbarian and as charismatic as a paladin. Just my 2 cents worth. What do you all think?

[ 04-10-2001: Message edited by: Kayless ]

Kayless' news are always interesting....
You're right about individual stats. But for Artemis i think that 13 strenght is a bit weak....but he's a hero, so he can be great also with this low stats
Anyway, losing a lot of time re-rolling stats is not good IMO. Generally i re roll 5 times.....if i'm lucky OK, if not, i try to make my wa through the game with tha stats i received. It's a question of luck, like a lot of things in RPG life....(and not only )

Im no thief, but figured a thief would know this.

If you backstab someone, can you hide in shadows again immediatly after?
Or perhaps run away a little bit and do it?

Originally posted by sigurd:
<STRONG>Im no thief, but figured a thief would know this.

If you backstab someone, can you hide in shadows again immediatly after?
Or perhaps run away a little bit and do it?</STRONG>

You have to run a bit away, then try hiding again. But you must have high thief skills. You can also drink a potion of invisibility.....like the rune assassins (very powerful opponents....)