KotOR III Storyline and Remarks

69SithLord69 · Post by **69SithLord69** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:53 pm

i think all ideas are allrite

i honestly think that most of the ideas are good but i also think that revan and bastilla should not be in ur party but could be in the jedi counsel which was rebuilt on another planet but u can have all new party members which u can reset stats if u dont like how they r and change them to say all jedi if that is wat u want or all gun people so u can have it wat u want instead of following the game story line of them and also like kotor 2 u can stay good or turn evil except if ur evil u could join the sith and control them if u were to kill the sith master

to be finished skool bell went

Zez-Kai Ell · Post by **Zez-Kai Ell** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:00 am

I think this is what should happen:

At char creation, you create yourself and Revan and the Exile's Gender and alignment.That way, the story is set.

You are on a planet holidaying with your mother and father ( Revan and Carth/Bastlia, depending on Revan's gender.), The Exile and Mira/Handmiaden/Visas(if she is still alive) who have become Revan's closest friends.

You wake up to hear your parents discussing a love interest of yours and how it could pan out. Revan, Bastila/Carth, The Exile and Mira/Handmaiden/Visas turn around and look straight at you. (you are still a young adult) They all say in unision "Did you hear that?" You slowly nod your head. Bastila says "come on [INSERT YOURNAME HERE]. We will start training." And you can only say "Oh, come on, its holidays!" and Revan then says "Yeah, it is holidays. Come on, Bastila, let him/her go." They all look up to see a mysterious ship. Revan and The Exile exclaim "I've seen that ship before. Thats Darth [INSERT NAME HERE]'s ship! How did they-" At that moment, a shuttle takes off and lands nearby. The Exile, Revan and Bastila grab their sabers and sprint towards the Shuttle. At that moment, your love intrest (could be Disciple/Handmaiden's son/daughter) comes up and says " What was that?" andd you can reply. The Exile, Revan and Bastila run back to you and say "Come on, we have to go, now. No arguments. As for you, [INSER LOVE INTEREST'S NAME HERE] Where are your parents?" "They are following me." Right on cue, Disciple and Mira/Handmaiden/Visas (you can pick) move and stand next to your love intrest and say "What's going on" Then, a few TRUE SITH appear in the clearing, surronded by sith assasins. The adults attack while you and your love intrest run for the Ebon Hawk. The adults come aboard soon after and you set a course for Yavin 4, where a Jedi Enclave is being constructed. You greet the Council there and they tell the adults to find where the Sith are attacking from. You and your love intrest have to stay and build their lightsabers before they can go with their families, The Exile and Mira/Handmaiden/Visas.

The rest i am still working on.

bigredpanda · Post by **bigredpanda** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:21 am

I'm not sure how the whole notion of fmailies really sits with the jedi code...
Plus, if Revan is LS, Bastila could well be dead. And if Revan is DS, the idea of him or her taking a holiday with their kid is sweet but not... well, not really the mark of an evil Sith lord?

If this game does get made, I'm looking for a more ingenious way of establishing what Revan and the Exile looked like and their allignment. I'm not too hot on this create them at char gen stage, it would isolate quite a lot of people who haven't played the previous two games.

Zez-Kai Ell · Post by **Zez-Kai Ell** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:06 pm

[quote="bigredpanda"]I'm not sure how the whole notion of fmailies really sits with the jedi code...
Plus, if Revan is LS, Bastila could well be dead. And if Revan is DS, the idea of him or her taking a holiday with their kid is sweet but not... well, not really the mark of an evil Sith lord?

You can set Revan and The Exile's alignment. If they are dark, they could be by themselves and you have a vision or something, thats just how it would look for me cuz i played both games Light Side (can be easier than Dark Side if you go Jedi Consular/Jedi Weapon Master combo)

And also, seeing as most of the ideas have characters from the past on the Council, they might allow relationships so they can boost the Jedi Order.

bigredpanda · Post by **bigredpanda** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:43 am

Again, though, this idea of setting Revan's allignment before the game starts just doesn't seem very likely to me. Plus, there's the extra factor that the Exile's allignment is nto necessarily what Revan's was. So while in KOTOR2 there was 4 possible Revan's (LS/F, LS/M, DS/F, DS/M), you then have to times that by whatever number regarding the possible Exile's.

In short, I have to say I'm more in to the storylines suggested which have a lot less Revan and Exile in them at the beginning, but I guess I've made that clear over the past few months... It just seems to make a whole lot more sense to find out about their characters as the game goes on, because it avoids alot of difficulties.

shredfreak · Post by **shredfreak** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:43 pm

I'd love to see everything (the movies that is) get tied togheter with kotor III (presuming it will be the last one of the series

).

If i understood kotor II correctly, kreia predicts the fall of the republic in episode 3. And in the movies it's said several times that the sith have been destroyed (episode I i think). So presumably someone destroyed all those sith in the times before Ep1 and the kotor series (and missed a few here and there since there still is palpatine). In kotor I revan discovered a threath beyond the outer rims of a great sith empire. So adding everything togheter revan succeeded in destroying that empire keeping the republic safe untill Ep1.

Anyhow, i'd love to see what they can come up with but this would be ideal for me, destruction of the sith. since revan has been referred to as a sith'kra (or however you spell it) it does make sense in a few ways (or at least to me

)

bigredpanda · Post by **bigredpanda** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 4:30 am

shredfreak wrote:I'd love to see everything (the movies that is) get tied togheter with kotor III (presuming it will be the last one of the series ).

If i understood kotor II correctly, kreia predicts the fall of the republic in episode 3. And in the movies it's said several times that the sith have been destroyed (episode I i think). So presumably someone destroyed all those sith in the times before Ep1 and the kotor series (and missed a few here and there since there still is palpatine). In kotor I revan discovered a threath beyond the outer rims of a great sith empire. So adding everything togheter revan succeeded in destroying that empire keeping the republic safe untill Ep1.

Anyhow, i'd love to see what they can come up with but this would be ideal for me, destruction of the sith. since revan has been referred to as a sith'kra (or however you spell it) it does make sense in a few ways (or at least to me )

Mebbe. There are like 6 thousand years in between them or something, though... Having said that, LucasArts do have a penchant for linking everything together ridiculously tidily.

Mattacola · Post by **Mattacola** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:31 am

Hiya all,

Ok heres my Idea...

First off to keep things consistent with the Previous games You answer a simple questionaire at the begining of the game to decide what Revan and the exile look like. The story is set 20 years after KOTOR 2. The Jedi council has reformed and is taking in new padawans, there are a hundred or so jedi knights. I wasn't too keen on the exile as a character as you will probably be able to tell...

Prologue:

The Ebon Hawk get tracor beamed into a huge ship. The doors open and T3 and the excile come out and see that the hanger has seen recent conflict. You go through the ship seeing that is battle torn and mopping up any stragglers on the way. When you get to the bridge and meet Revan. You have a chat and the exile says "I sense great good/evil" in you so you can choose Revans alighnment. depending on you answer the whole structure of the game will change.

Evil - Revan says "and in you I sense great weakness" the cuts you down. Then another new character enters the bridge and says "bravo Revan for ridding the force of that disease, now all thats left is to rid it of you" they run towards each other for a fight and the prologue ends.

Good - Revan says "and in you I sense great suffering". Then another new character enters the bridge and says "A suffering I shall delight in ending!" and electricutes the exile to death. The new char then says "and that just leaves you Jedi" Revan and the new char run towards each other for a fight and the prologue ends.

Main Story 10 years later:

You are a Padawan in the jedi temple on corusant. You awake to you mentor (Oposite gender to you) moaning that you slept in. You are going for the trials to become a jedi knight today. you are going to be supporting republic troops, led by several jedi knights, against a pirate space station which has been terrorising Dantooine and raiding the old jedi temple there. Before going you select what trial you want to take; consular, guardian or sentinal. You do a short mission through the space station with some puzzles before coming to the hanger of the station in time to see the pirate leader getting on to his flagship to flee. You jump on the entrance ramp of the ship as its blasting off leaving your mentor behind. you do a longer mission through the ship letting a bounty hunter out of a cell on the ship to help you out (another playable character throughout) and finding 3 parts of a lightsabre and a crystal (colour determined by what trial you picked) from caches of loot on the ship and the bodies of Pirate commanders. Just before the bridge where you will fight the leader of the pirates you get the final piece for you lightsabre and put all the pieces together. You fight the pirate leader and just before hes about to die he surrenders, you can take his surrender, or kill him for light and dark points. You pilot the ship back to the pirate base and recieve a heros welcome and a telling off from you mentor. then you all fly back to corusant.

Still working on the rest of the plot will write more if this doesn't get slated and when i'm not at work.

bigredpanda · Post by **bigredpanda** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:24 pm

I like your ideas about Jedi training as a way of choosing your allignment - a bit like in KOTOR1 where you answer the questions and they recommend you a class. Perhaps there could be one trial, with three different ways to solve it...

But it's a shame that with that good idea for Character Generation, you went with the "Short Quesitonaiire" to decide what the Exile is like. For the nth time, think about the people who haven't played before, and don't know who the hell the Exile is! I really can't see it happening. Plus, any cutscne that involves Revan or the Exile talking is going to be a pain, because they haven't spoken in the previous games - it was left to the imagination of the player, and a good thing too.

69SithLord69 · Post by **69SithLord69** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:31 pm

yeh good idea except mayb u should be able to start with creating urself like u do in the sims say and u start on a world that is dying and ur in the outer region where the true sith are and u encounter one where u can either run away or join him if u run away a jedi master runs up from behind u and starts protecting u then u can run and hop on some brand new ship that is much faster than the ebon hawk but if u join the sith and go with the true sith well then i dont no cause i havnt really read about them but i have heard of them but either way u find a young woman that is up to wat u want her appearance name and if she will b a jedi/sith or not

thats wat i think u should add in

DarthBob · Post by **DarthBob** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:47 am

My Idea

WELL IF KREIA SAYS THAT I HAVE TO GO HELP REVEN THATS WHAT I WANT OTHERWISE THE WHOLE POINT OF HER SAYING THAT WOULD BE FOR NOTHING AND WOULD SCREW UP K2 EVEN FURTHER. BUT I WANT THE GAME SO THAT YOU HAVE TO PLAY THE GAME AS THREE DIFFERENT CHARACHTERS: REVEN, EXILE, AND A NEW DUDE/DUDETTE. REVEN AND THE EXILE ARE IN LEUGE WITH EACH OTHER EITHER WAY IF U WER DS OR LS IN KOTOR 1 OR 2. REVEN HAS TO KILL THE HEART OF THE NEW SITH THRET IN THE OUTER RIM SLAUGHTERING EVERYONE THAT HAS A RED CIRCLE OR IS WEIRD. THE EXILE THOUGH I DONT REALLY LIKE HIM SHOULD BE HELPING THE REPUBLIC REBUILD TO PROTECT IT AGAINST THE "REAL" SITH AND THE NEW DUDE?DUDETTE HAS TO HELP REVEN KILL THE "REAL" SITH AND THE EXILE HELP THE REPUBLIC.
PART 1
THE STORY: NEW PC: YOU ARE IN THE JEDI TEMPLE ON COURASCANT COZ IM BORED OF DANTOOINE. YOU ARE ABOUT TO TAKE THE TRIALS WHICH IS THIS LITTLE TIDBIT I HAVENT THOUGHT OF YET. YOU ARE STUDYING THE LIBRARY THING FOR THE RECENT HISTORY OF THE REPUBLIC AND YOU FIND A HOLOVID IN WHICH IS HOLDING A PLANET BY THE NAME OF ULAN. YOU DO NOT KNOW THIS BUT THIS IS THE BEGGINING OF THE "REAL" SITH EMPIRE. YOU SHOW THIS TO THE COUNCIL WHICH IS BASTILLA, JUHANI, DISCIPLE, ATTON, AND A LOAD OF OTHER PPLE. THEY GIVE YOU MONEY TO BY A NEW SHIP WHICH IS NOT THE EBON HAWK BCAUSE WEVE SEARCHED EVERY LITTLE CRACK AND CREVIS OF THAT FLAMING RUST BUCKET AND THEY SEND YOU OFF TO ULAN. WHERE THE YOU FIND YOUR FIRST PARTY MEMBER BESIDES T3 AND HK AS THEY ARE YOUR DROIDS YOU FOUND HK ON CORASCANT SLAYING HK 50S, AND YOU FOUND T3 WORKING IN THE SHIP SELLING AREA FROM WHERE YOU BUY YOUR SHIP. YOU ARE SENT OFF TO ULAN. ON THIS PART YOU HAVE ONLY A FEW THUGS AND GANGS TO KILL AND THERE STILL IS ALOT OF LS DS PINTS TO BE GAINED BUT BELIVE ME THE SLAYING WILL COME!

NEXT BIT: EXILE: AFTER MALACHOR YOU HAVE THE EBON HAWK TRAVELLING TO TARIS WITH HANDMAIDEN AND MANDALORE TO STOP THE GENHANADRAN GUYS FROM SHIPPING A BOX OF EXPLOSIVES YOU DO THE MISSON BUT WHILE DOING SO CRASH ON TARIS (DE SHA VOU FOR THE PLAYERS YAY:laugh

KEBLA YURT AND THE DOCTER DUDE PULL YOU, HANDMAIDEN AND MANDALORE OUT JUST BEFORE THE DOORS CAVE IN. YOU FIND THAT THE EXCHANGE ARE STARTING TO GAIN A FOOTHOLD IN THE AREA AND BECAUSE GOTO DID NOT PULL THE BOUNTY OFF THEY ARE OUT TO KILL YOU SO YOU AND MANDALORE KILL THEM. HANDMAIDEN IS BADLY INJURED AND THE DOCTOR IS LOKING AFTER HER IN HIS CLINIC. THE NEW MARKET PLACE IS YOUR BASE OF OPERATIONS WHERE YOU HAVE A SMALL ROOM WITH A WORKBENCH A FEW PLASTELL CLYINDERS AND A SECURITY CONSOLE IN WHICH YOU HAVE ACSESS BECAUSE TARIS POLICE HAVE GIVEN YOU UNLIMITD ACCESS EITHER BY THREATENING OR BECAUSE YOU HELP THEM POLICING THE STREETS AND HELP REMOVE THE EXCHANGE. YOU DEFEAT THE EXCHANGE AND MIRACULASLY THE HANDMAIDEN RECOVERS AT THE TIME YOU GET BACK. THE GUYS TELL YOU ABOUT THE RACKGOUL DESIESE AND HOW THEY HAVE THE CURE BUT THEY JUST CANT GET PPLE TO STOP GETTING INFECTED. YOU AGREE TO HELP THEM AND GO OFF TO STOP THE RECKGOUL THREAT. AND BEFORE I GO ON I DO KNOW MOST OF YOU ARE ASKING HOW DOES THIS HELP REVEN IN THE OUTER RIM? WELL FOR STARTERS IN MY VERSION REVEN SENT THE EXILE TO HELP THE REPUBLIC, AND THE WAY THE GENOHANADRAN AND THE EXCHANGE AND THE RAKGOUGHLS ARE ALL CONNECTED ARE THAT THE GENOHANADREN ARE DESTROYING KEY MILITARY FIGURES IN THE REPUBLIC, THE EXCHANGE IS BANKRUPTING IT AND THE REACKGHOULS WELL IF THEY KEPTY ON KILLING PEOPLE OR TURNING THEM INTO RAKGHOULS THE REPUBLIC WOULD LOSE A STRATEGIC WORLD IN THE BATTLES TO COME. SEE NOT JUST A PRETTY FACE. ANYWAY AFTER THE RACKGOUL THING YOU FIND TRANSPORT TO YAVIN 4 BY HAVING TO EITHER FORCE PERSUADE OR PAY OFF THE PILOT WHO WILL EVENTUALY BECOME A TEAM MEMBER.

REVEN: YOU ARE ON ACROCANTRON (THIS IS A CUT SCENE THIS 1ST BIT) YOU WALK ALONG THE FORSESTS MEDITATING IN ITS TRANQUILITY. ( I KNOW PPLE ARE GONNA HATE ME FOR THIS BUT THIS IS THE TRUE REVEN. HE DIDNT CONVERT HE SACRIFICED HIMSELF FOR THE REPUBLIC SO THAT WHEN HE CONCERED IT IT WOUL BE STRONG AGAINST THE "REAL" SITH!) WHEN HE OPENS HIS EYES HE QUICKLEY DOES A FLING BACK AND CRACKS DOWN TWO SITH GUYS. (END OF CUTSCENE) THEN WE GO INTO A FIGHT AS REVEN HAS MASTER FLURRY, POWER ATTACK, CRITICAL STRICKE, AND MY OWN IDEA FORCE SLASH (THIS IS A FORCE POWER BUT BECAUSE REVEN IS COOL I DECIDED TO GIVE HIM A UBER COOL ATTACK WHERE THE FORCE USES THE LIGHTSABER FOR A 1 CRACK BLOW AND THIS CAN ONLY BE USED 1NCE PER ENEMY!) AFTER FIGHTING A FEW GUYS WE THEN GO INTO THE ACRO FOUNDRY WHERE WE ARE GONNA SLAY ALL LIFE IN THE FOUNDRY TO HALT PRODUCTION OF DISINTERGRATION MACHINES WHICH ARE STILL PROTOTYPES BUTWILL BE USED ON THE REPUBLIC NEXT YOU HAVE TO FIND THE VEIW AREA WHERE PRODUCTION AREA WHERE THE CONSOLE TO THE FACTORY IS HELD AFTER MUCH NEEDED SLAYING YOU COME ACROSS THE FIRST REAL BOSS: ARABEC STREYBO HE HAS A GOOD DEFENSE AND REFLEX BUT IS WEAK IIN ATTACK AND IS A WEAK FORCE USER. hE IS JUST A WARM UP. (CUTSCENE) YOU ARE ABOUT TO GIVE THE FINAL BLOW TO HIM WHEN AN CRY IS GIVEN IN OUT IN YOUR MIND YOU ARE WEAKNED AND ARABEC FORCE PUSHES YOU BACK. HE RUNS OFF. YOU SEE A PICTURE OF BASTILLA CRYING OUT IN PAIN (THE BOND HAS GOTTEN STRANGER SINCE THE LAST TIME MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!) HE COLLAPSES AFTER A BREIF MOMENT YOU GET UP BUT YOU FORCE POINTS AND DEFENCE HAVE BEEN LOST FOR A SHORT PERIOD. YOU PROCEED TO THE CONTROL ROOM AND SHUT THE FACTORY DOWN BUT AFTER THAT YOU HAVE TO PROCEED TO DESTROY 3 FUEL CANISTER IRONICLYN OUTSIDE NEXT TO THE GRANGOLI RIVER. AFTER THIS CUTSCENE WHERE YOU SEE REVEN WALKING AWAY AND THE FUEL CANISTERS EXPLODING. REVEN GIVES A SMIRK.

IF YOU LIKE MY IDEA JUST ASK AND ILL GIVE PART 2. IF YOU DONT TELL ME WHY.
GRATZI!

bigredpanda · Post by **bigredpanda** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:05 am

Dude... my eyes... what's all the shouting for?

From what I could read of that, it seemed to be all based on the way that you yourself have played the previous games. So there's several characters you've emntioned I can almost guarantee will not be in the game (like Juhani, etc.) because there's the opportunity to kill them in the previous games. And what's all this "true Revan" stuff? (Unless it was ironic, seeing as how you spelled it...) It's an open-ended RPG! WHo Revan "is", short of the basics (a great leader, powerful user of the force, etc.), is down to the player...
Most of your ideas seemed to be a mish mash of previous elements of the two games. I'd quite like to see a bit more originality in things to do, places to see, people to meet, and I don't think I'm alone in that.

DarthBob · Post by **DarthBob** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:37 am

Exsucse me if you dig deeper you will find that reven didnt fall to the darkside and he didnt want to destroy the republic he sacrificed him self to the darkside so that he could have the power to conquer the republic and mount its defences for the "real" sith attack! anyway the council was just a bsic ting. Bastilla if you think about it could stay alive seeing as if ds she went with you and if you were ls you wouldnt of killed seeing as if reven was ls in kotor 2 bastila was still alive either way! bastilla if ds went to find reven that dosent mean she is dead but she can still be alive and also if ds instead of bastilla it could be a different char. I understand about juhani but that ws just idiocy on my part. And also there is stuff to do with the choices, i havent gone into full detail but its just for exile and your new pc on part 1 there is loads of choices that can affect your allingment. and also for the handmaiden brianna sorry that is only for male but for female it would be mical sorry i admit that that was idiocy too!

bigredpanda · Post by **bigredpanda** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:54 am

Fair enough. I don't remember finding Bastilla "alive" in KOTOR, the only time you see her is the holocron if Revan is DS? Also, I don't think it's about "digging deeper"... the games are deliberately ambiguous over what Revan's motives are. Yes, Revan will always finish by going off to find the true Sith. But that doesn't give away this "real Revan" thing - like I said, that's just going to ruin the whole open-ended thing.

Though I have a feeling we might just have to disagree over this...

SMall point about Disciple as well: another thing about using characters from previous games is whether the cut content from KOTOR2 is counted or not. I believe it was originally planned that Atton would kill the Disciple on Malachor if Exile was DS? And there's game files suggesting that, but obviously they never made the game.

Reflecting on it, I'm quite glad I'm not involved int he making of this game, what with all the if's and but's involved.

DarthBob · Post by **DarthBob** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:00 am

Bastil was in kotor 2 if you choose that reven was ls male i think

Drendar Morevo · Post by **Drendar Morevo** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:35 am

DarthBob is correct on that matter.

perhaps one could theorize that there should be many possible endings for KotOR III.

DarthBob · Post by **DarthBob** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:46 am

DarthBob is correct on that matter.

perhaps one could theorize that there should be many possible endings for KotOR III.[/QUOTE]

I agree to that but even tho pple think my idea is bull i steal think it would be cool to have three different plotlines all going on with three characters

DarthBob · Post by **DarthBob** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:49 am

Also, I don't think it's about "digging deeper"... the games are deliberately ambiguous over what Revan's motives are. Yes, Revan will always finish by going off to find the true Sith. But that doesn't give away this "real Revan" thing - like I said, that's just going to ruin the whole open-ended thing.

DOES NO! EVER LOOK AT WIKIPEDIA TYPE IN REVEN AND IT SHOULD TELL YOU THE REAL REASON FOR REVEN CONVERTING

riotfellow · Post by **riotfellow** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:56 am

If selecting dark side ending in KoTOR II:
Revan returns to republic space to find that the Republic has been decimated by the exile. Revan tracks the exile and then battles him/her. At the end of the battle Revan strips the force from the exile and forces him/her to go to the old sith empire to battle the sith. When they reach the sith empire Revan is forced to leave the exile (in the ebon hawk) and the game starts on a planet looking for a way off.

If selecting light side ending i KoTOR II:
The exile goes to the old sith empire and searches for Revan. The exile finds Revan battling a sith lord (Boss?) and sacrifices himself to save Revan. The sith lord lets the exile live only to torture him/her. At the end the sith lord strips the force from the exile and sends him drifting in the ebon hawk. The exile then crashes on a planet and the game starts with looking for a way of the planet.

Darth Magmius · Post by **Darth Magmius** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:27 pm

I think that your main character should have once been a Sith(and fallen Jedi), one of Revans apprentices that he trained along with Malak. However, for one reason or another your character becomes afraid of possibly being killed in the war and flees during the Taris bombing, after a short lightsaber duel with Malak. This game would only take place a couple of months since KOTOR2, so the Republic would still be in the middle of trying stabalizing itself. Somehow, your character would end up working on a Republic freighter which suddenly come under attack by Sith forces. You would take a ship out of the hangar, but you get shot down and your ship crashes down on the planet below, Alderaan. By some maricle you survive, but your stranded on Alderaan with no money. Instead of the classic KOTOR storyline that gives you an option of four or so planets looking for something, you go on a storyline directs you to one planet in particular, though most of the tiem you still havet the option to go to any planet you want, just not for story purposes. However, over the course of the story, your character keeps having visions of things from the future. For instance, while on Alderaan, you have a vision of a planet exploding, Alderaan future, though most of the visions are cryptic. Near then end of the game your character has a vision about a 'Chosen One' (which I thought would tie KOTOR to the movies well)