Massacre in Virginia: 33 students dead

[Maharlika]

Proper school culture is the key.

Try this:

[url="http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:L36Cbr94tGYJ:www.violenceprevent.org/School.TAguide.pdf+Threat+Assessment+in+Schools,+U.S.+Secret+Service&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=39"]Threat Assessment in Schools[/url]

The way I see it, cases like this, though rare, could have still been prevented if the proper student support services were securely in its place.

Bullying is something people tend to take for granted, not knowing its profound effects on the individual students and the student body as a whole.

School culture would have some thing to do as well. In the school where I work, it is easily managed and the students feel as individuals and not a student number among the faceless crowd. That is because of our relatively small population and high teacher:student ratio. Things and people are easily managed.

It would take a lot of political will and effort for big schools and universities to truly have a caring culture and a safe environment.

I think that the school was remiss when they have identified Cho as a red flag. They were in the right direction when he was referred to the Guidance Counselor. Unfortunately there was no follow-up nor action plan for this kid. I won't be surprised if some parent would sue the university for negligence...

[sparky_kat]

i was thinking about this some more last night after i posted, thinking of gun control and how it can be easy to buy a gun, pistol or rifle, i was thinking that they should implement a longer waiting period ALONG with making it to where it is MANDATORY that you take a gun safety class before you can purchase along with everyone else in the household taking the safety course also, then need to renew and retake the class say every 1-5 years along with the whole family, just think of of how many spur of the moment crimes would be detured when the would be gun buyer to shoot someone learned he had to take a safety course first, give him time to cool, or even think about that with the entire family needing to take the safety course, how many in the home accidents could be avoided for everyone having the proper safety knowledge, i knew some people who had guns and children, and kept their gun under the pillow because the kids had been told to stay out of that room, but remember what they say about curiosity and the cat. i remember when i was 8, my grandmother came to vist and took over my room, i had gon into get some toys and noticed something under her pillow, what do i find but a nice shiny revolver, thank god it wasnt loaded, i had no idea at the time, i had never seen a real gun before so i was holding it and playing around with it, until my mom came in and saw.... and freaked out on my grandma. some adults can be very (and sorry if i offend anyone, not trying to) stupid when it comes to guns, they take for granted that since they know what it is and how to use it and when it is or isnt loaded, that not everyone else around does.

[Chimaera182]

Stronger gun control isn't really going to help in a situation such as this. A kid who decides to go on a rampage might have parents who own such weapons (and who passed such strict regulations), or they might decide to go a different way and choose some other means of killing people (after all, there are so many). Gun control debates are little more than attempts by the central government to pretend they are actually doing something about a situation which they have little to no power over. That way, they can make some show to the general populace that they can prevent such a tragedy from ever occuring again, and yet they really don't have the ability to do so short of complete military lock-down (and that won't solve everything). God knows the times I contemplated going off on my fellow students I didn't even consider obtaining guns.

[Lady Dragonfly]

Stronger gun control isn't really going to help in a situation such as this. A kid who decides to go on a rampage might have parents who own such weapons (and who passed such strict regulations), or they might decide to go a different way and choose some other means of killing people (after all, there are so many).

If the parents comply with the law and keep the weapons under a safe lock, as they should, then "a kid" has to search for the weaponry somewhere else.
The "different way" will not be guns. Somebody has already pointed out that "a kid" armed with knives or a sword is unlikely to murder 32 people.
I agree that a bomb might be a possibility but it is not as readily available.

Gun control debates are little more than attempts by the central government to pretend they are actually doing something about a situation which they have little to no power over. That way, they can make some show to the general populace that they can prevent such a tragedy from ever occuring again, and yet they really don't have the ability to do so short of complete military lock-down (and that won't solve everything).

I agree that the gun lobby is very powerful. But I think something can be done to enhance the situation. For example, mental illness makes a would-be gun owner ineligible to purchase a gun. But currently ONLY 22 STATES submit mental health records to NICS. Virginia does supply the information, but apparently not 100%. There are plenty loopholes in the existing law.

[Magrus]

If the parents comply with the law and keep the weapons under a safe lock, as they should, then "a kid" has to search for the weaponry somewhere else.
The "different way" will not be guns. Somebody has already pointed out that "a kid" armed with knives or a sword is unlikely to murder 32 people.
I agree that a bomb might be a possibility but it is not as readily available.

I pointed out to the principal all of the things that could be used as a weapon that were on me at the time. All of which were typical school supplies for students and clothing items. Anything can be used to hurt someone if you put your mind to it and have the will to do so. It didn't comfort him, but amused the psychologist. She was fond of people that thought outside of the box.

I think you might be amazed to see what kind of damage a typical #2 pencil could do to someone if used with the right amount of force and at the right angle at the right spots on a persons body. The typical student carries a few of those around daily, as required by typical teachers demands. A belt makes a good restraint, and those 5-10 lb textbooks students are forced to carry are heavy enough to knock someone out if you hit them at the right angle with them.

Ironic, no? It won't kill 30 people rapidly, but then, you might be frightened to learn how much goes on inside of a typical school that is never reported or brought up to anyone outside of the incident that happens these days. It wouldn't be too hard to believe that a person could with only school supplies mind you, incapacitate or kill a handful of people before anyone realized it. Metal detectors won't help there, nor will searching students. They're all required items for schooling.

I agree that the gun lobby is very powerful. But I think something can be done to enhance the situation. For example, mental illness makes a would-be gun owner ineligible to purchase a gun. But currently ONLY 22 STATES submit mental health records to NICS. Virginia does supply the information, but apparently not 100%. There are plenty loopholes in the existing law.

Incorrect! Myself, I have a record that includes being deemed as dangerous when provoked and a past history of psychosis. I could, should I wish to, purchase as many guns as I wanted. So long as they are not hand-guns. Which amuses me to no end. Hand guns are easy to conceal and carry, so they are banned. Yet, the ones which a far greater range and damage capability can be gained with cold cash and nothing more than a criminal record check and a several day delay to go over the records. Even to someone who is completely insane and happens to believe everyone is really a 4 armed monster with 3 heads due to severe delusion and hallucinations. Comforting, no?

[Grombag]

I pointed out to the principal all of the things that could be used as a weapon that were on me at the time. All of which were typical school supplies for students and clothing items. Anything can be used to hurt someone if you put your mind to it and have the will to do so. It didn't comfort him, but amused the psychologist. She was fond of people that thought outside of the box.

I think you might be amazed to see what kind of damage a typical #2 pencil could do to someone if used with the right amount of force and at the right angle at the right spots on a persons body. The typical student carries a few of those around daily, as required by typical teachers demands. A belt makes a good restraint, and those 5-10 lb textbooks students are forced to carry are heavy enough to knock someone out if you hit them at the right angle with them.

Ironic, no? It won't kill 30 people rapidly, but then, you might be frightened to learn how much goes on inside of a typical school that is never reported or brought up to anyone outside of the incident that happens these days. It wouldn't be too hard to believe that a person could with only school supplies mind you, incapacitate or kill a handful of people before anyone realized it. Metal detectors won't help there, nor will searching students. They're all required items for schooling.

If you want to you can use anything as a weapon. Although I think that is true, I don't think you'll get a massacere of any kind. There are a couple of reasons for that. First you have to use alot of effort to actually kill somebody. You need alot of force to swing your textbook, or your pencil hard enough to do the right amount of damage. Plus the strugle that can come out of it.
Furthermore you can't take on a large group, even if they won't fight back you have somebody running around calling "he got a knife, he got a knife". In this case panic isn't working in your favor, since you have to go and chase everyone around/ getting more large groups on you.
As a last argument, here in the netherlands guns are not allowed. Until now nobody has been rampaging through the school with a box full of pencils (or be crazy and take a scissor). It also isn't the case nothing goes wrong here. There are cases known that troubled students hang themself.

[Magrus]

As I said, it won't be a massacre, but it is possible. I'd written out a long response, but it probably is best to shift this to the "Killing: Is it natural?" thread. Anyhow, I'll do so once I figure out how to switch what I wrote around to fit it into the thread.

[fable]

Now, what kind of benighted idiots can think this was a good idea?

[dragon wench]

Now, what kind of benighted idiots can think this was a good idea?

*That* is utterly appalling...
Those teachers should be fired and never allowed in a classroom or anywhere around children *ever* again, period!

[Maharlika]

You gotta be kidding...

Goodness gracious... what were they thinking? They should have consulted first people with the proper expertise before they could even THINK of making a plan out of this.

Poor judgement.

Conduct unbecoming of educators/formators.

I won't be surprised if the kids involved would be scarred somewhat for years to come.

[Chimaera182]

Show me someone who isn't scarred.

Still, that was a very stupid thing for them to do.

[Fiberfar]

So.... Have anyone seen the virgina tech-game where you actually shoot all the students?

The guy who made it, claims that he's and artist, and that he'll remove the game if he gets $2000 on an account of his. Oh and if he get another $1000, he'll even say he's sorry.

Trying to make money off something like that.... It's disgusting!