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Religion doesn't make a man/woman and if religion is the cause of an evil act it is just an excuse to do something they would have done anyway IMO. I have meet great people from many diffrent religions.

@Fas I have shared an appartment with 4 muslims in spain. some of them are cool and some of them are idiots...just like people from any other religion. you are on the cool-list

I won't go any deeper, because I don't know much about it.

Wicca is what the public commonly calls witchcraft I believe. Godsmack (the band)'s members all practice Wicca (hence their song Bad Religion if you've ever heard it).

What on the cool list already?
Boy that was fast.
You must have gotten that money transfered to your account!

i have a problem, from what it sounds all of you are going to laugh at me.

i was baptize roman catholic but never practice. as a teen i questioned god and look to other beliefs to find answer. i studied wiccan, buddaism, and taoism. i came out of the experience with a greater understanding and appreciation and thought that my search of god was over. i believe in all religions because all have a grain of truth in their teachings. so in a sense, i also don't believe in them. it's a paradox.
in the wake of the massacre, i find myself trying to console myself and finding no way to do it. i look to god, and find that i'm at a loss. which to way turn? so i did want the religions use to comfort them, i prayed.

i thanked god for my family's safety.
i prayed for all who were murdered and for their families.
i prayed for the muslims that will end up being persecuted.
and above all, i prayed for justice.

i'm usually a solitary person. but now i have the need to be with people. to be comforted in the time of tradegy. i've never used religion as a crutch, since i'm a firm believer of 'what goes around, comes around'

but this is too much for me. my heart hasn't stop crying.

where is god?

Originally posted by Darkpoet:
<STRONG>
You should go to Israel, and see if you can buy one there. I bet they would give you something.</STRONG>

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I didn't laugh at that norma-whatever guy's post but that one is funny....

Yes, just purchase this suit and parade the streets shouting "Happy Bar Mitzvah".

Anyways, I'm a Protestant Christian. ^_^ Won't be hearin me swearin any time soon...

Originally posted by jennabard:
<STRONG>where is god?</STRONG>

In the book Night, Elie Wiesel (sp??) relates an incident in a concentration camp. I'll try not to be too graphic.

In the camp, three males were being hanged. Two were adults; one was only a young boy. The grown men died relatively soon, but because of the boy's lesser body weight, he struggled for a long time. As the camp's prisoners watched the boy slowly strangling, one of the men said, "Where is God? Where is God in all this??" And another replied, "God is right there, on the end of that rope."

I've heard it asked many times by many different people, why does God allow suffering? That is one of the questions of the ages for which there is no quick or easy answer. All I can do at a time like this is speak from my own personal belief. As a Christian, I look at the cross of Jesus and see God sharing in our suffering. Expressing solidarity with us in our suffering. We do not have a Creator who is indifferent to our grief. He understands it intimately, from the inside, as it were. From our own point of view. He is intimately acquainted with not only suffering but death itself.

There is a passage in Isaiah that CHristians have always applied to Jesus: "He was spurned and avoided by men, a man of suffering, accustomed to infirmity...Yet it was our infirmities that he bore, our sufferings that he endured" (Is 53). The passage is quite long so I'm not posting the whole thing.

A good Scriptural example of the struggle to understand suffering is the Book of Job. Job does not sit back meekly and accept his fate. He demands an answer.

It comes down to this: there is no avoiding suffering. There simply isn't. Nature itself suffers. Suffering is a part of life. No one can escape it. But when it occurs, as it inevitably will, God is present in the suffering. More so than without it.

People seem to have this split about God, that He is only present when things are going well. Not true.

Originally posted by loner72:
<STRONG>In the book Night, Elie Wiesel (sp??) relates an incident in a concentration camp. I'll try not to be too graphic.

In the camp, three males were being hanged. Two were adults; one was only a young boy. The grown men died relatively soon, but because of the boy's lesser body weight, he struggled for a long time. As the camp's prisoners watched the boy slowly strangling, one of the men said, "Where is God? Where is God in all this??" And another replied, "God is right there, on the end of that rope."

I've heard it asked many times by many different people, why does God allow suffering? That is one of the questions of the ages for which there is no quick or easy answer. All I can do at a time like this is speak from my own personal belief. As a Christian, I look at the cross of Jesus and see God sharing in our suffering. Expressing solidarity with us in our suffering. We do not have a Creator who is indifferent to our grief. He understands it intimately, from the inside, as it were. From our own point of view. He is intimately acquainted with not only suffering but death itself.

There is a passage in Isaiah that CHristians have always applied to Jesus: "He was spurned and avoided by men, a man of suffering, accustomed to infirmity...Yet it was our infirmities that he bore, our sufferings that he endured" (Is 53). The passage is quite long so I'm not posting the whole thing.

A good Scriptural example of the struggle to understand suffering is the Book of Job. Job does not sit back meekly and accept his fate. He demands an answer.

It comes down to this: there is no avoiding suffering. There simply isn't. Nature itself suffers. Suffering is a part of life. No one can escape it. But when it occurs, as it inevitably will, God is present in the suffering. More so than without it.

People seem to have this split about God, that He is only present when things are going well. Not true.</STRONG>

I've read Night.
Its sad, but a good book to read. IMO its best Holaucast book i've read.

2 weeks ago we were spamming, the world changes so quickly.

We're still spamming... the world hasn't changed that much

Loner said:

"I've heard it asked many times by many different people, why does God allow suffering? That is one of the questions of the ages for which there is no quick or easy answer. All I can do at a time like this is speak from my own personal belief. As a Christian, I look at the cross of Jesus and see God sharing in our suffering. Expressing solidarity with us in our suffering. We do not have a Creator who is indifferent to our grief. He understands it intimately, from the inside, as it were. From our own point of view. He is intimately acquainted with not only suffering but death itself."

I am a Roman Catholic, and proud to be one. Working here in Thailand gave me a good opportunity to relate with "non-believers" (I get to meet a lot of people from different countries here esp when I go on vacationat the beach or hangout at Khao San Road) therefore such experiences broadens one's mind and perspective. It's really hard to be very objective about one's convictions when you are practically surrounded with people who share the same faith as yours.

As I read some of the posts I can't help but feel offended about words such as "religion is crap" and all that. But hey, everybody is entitled to his opinion... so I DO respect everybody's opinion and beliefs.

RCism is more than just going to church on Sundays. I guess I owe my parents, school and community for still being a Catholic despite being surrounded with Catholic Hypocrites. These are the people who make the RC Faith really look bad.

In my country we call them "Banal na aso, santong kabayo." (Holy dog, Saintly horse)

Catholicism is a religion to live by and make your life meaningful (I guess, just like other religions). It is more than just rosaries, and Sunday masses (or virtuous women ). However there is also the belief in JC as the bridge to Paradise.

For me, Man was given the ability to think, therefore has the tendency to think logically.

This is the reason why faith is called Faith. There are just things that you just do because you feel that you want to and have to and not to intellectualize with them.

Hmmm... a closer example would be individual who still stick it out with their significant other despite and in spite of how bad their partner treats them. You stick it out through thick and thin because, well... you just feel it is the right thing to do. I'm talking about the behavior of the individual and I'm not alluding to my faith as a bad partner.

On another note, a number of short-sighted people are harrassing muslims around the world. For God's sake man, these people are giving (assuming the terrorists were Muslims) the perpetrators a justified cause for what they have done.

Peace, man, peace!

Oh, yeah, let justice be served...

Oh lest I forget...

... well said, Loner72

@Garcia: Yes, religions (as a collective group of people and not as faith per se) made themselves look bad when their leaders used their faith to further their selfish motives. Just look at world history and you know what I mean.

Uttering in the name of God, these leaders/fanatics where not really serving their faiths' tenets. They were just serving themselves... banal na aso, santong kabayo...