There's two sides to the story'

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu May 20, 2004 2:58 pm

It's called damage control. And you can bet most of the people who were illegally detained--some of them subjected to abuse--are not going speak about the honor of their "liberators," but about what went on in the prisons, and what they can do about getting their own back.

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Thu May 20, 2004 3:02 pm

Fanfare? What fanfare?

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Thu May 20, 2004 3:45 pm

Originally posted by Vicsun
Just out of curiosity, what's America's current standing with Iraqi civilians?

Take Sojourner's reply..

whatever goodwill we might have had in Iraq has been squandered.

for what the current standing is, not only for Iraqi's in Iraq but for the ones in the US as well. I saw a report of one American Iraqi saying his hopes of going back to Iraq have been dashed and the only way he could go back would be to deny the American part. He also said the US had approached him in the beginning to help with the aftermath of the war and all they wanted once he did help was for him to shutup and take orders.

They knew what to do.... (Biggest laugh ever)

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Fri May 21, 2004 2:10 pm

I saw on the news the pervert at Hooters is looking at a maximum of 20 years for taking naked pictures of the ladies applying for a job....and they were not beaten..as a matter of fact not even touched.

So much for justice! If I was his lawyer I would tell him to join the military and get a year

or the House of Representatives and get 100 days.

Note: What's fair for one person should be fair for the other.

RandomThug · Post by **RandomThug** » Fri May 21, 2004 3:59 pm

@weasel

1. Military court is not the same (although I thought it would be stricter than normal court?)

2. Didnt that dude film like a CRAPLOAD of girls... each with thier own case. Thats why he might get 20... the question really is why do drug users have to serve more time mandatory of thier sentance that violent crime prisoners?

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri May 21, 2004 6:10 pm

I will reiterate what I said in another thread a few months back, quoting Clemenceau (French Prime Minister, one of the architects of the Versailles Treaty following WWI):

"Military justice is to justice what military music is to music."

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Fri May 21, 2004 6:25 pm

Originally posted by Sojourner
*waves magnifying glass* I'm still looking for it.

When you're done, perhaps you could find those elusive WMDs.

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri May 21, 2004 8:04 pm

According to the BBC, the Pentagon announced today that in 8 continuing investigations into cases of the death of Iraqis in Iraqi prisons under the authority of the US Army, 15 cases have been judged homicides that occurred during or directly after interrogation.

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu May 27, 2004 9:25 pm

Just came across this. What makes it all relevant and interesting today is that DynCorp, the disgraced merc group located in Virginia, was one of the outfits rehired by the US military to train police in Abu Ghraib. This is the same company that included an officer who got his friends to videotape him raping two Bosnian women several years back. (Nothing could be done about it, despite the proof. No international law, and Rumsfeld's Pentagon didn't cooperate. They only said to send him home.)

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Thu May 27, 2004 10:17 pm

Raping women? They were raping girls! And don't get me started on Dyncorp.

Dottie · Post by **Dottie** » Thu May 27, 2004 11:38 pm

Heh, And a few days ago, Bush anounced that the Abu Ghraib prison might be demolished. Its hilarious, in a horrible sort of way. Apearently the prison building was responsible for the torture... Good thing it wasnt located on US soil, it might have looked bad.

Gwalchmai · Post by **Gwalchmai** » Fri May 28, 2004 9:21 am

I had to laugh (wryly) when I heard about the plans for demolition of the building. I thought, "that way no one can go back to gather more evidence!" But I was only half serious.

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Fri May 28, 2004 9:26 am

I believe the building should remain standing as a reminder of the horrible way this war has been ran.

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri May 28, 2004 11:47 am

Originally posted by Dottie
Heh, And a few days ago, Bush anounced that the Abu Ghraib prison might be demolished. Its hilarious, in a horrible sort of way. Apearently the prison building was responsible for the torture.

Out of sight, out of mind. Bush seems to genuinely believe that people are better off not knowing such things happen, or have happened. A coverup is better than facing reality.

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Fri May 28, 2004 12:25 pm

Too bad Bush never read Rise and Fall of the Third Reich:

"A totalitarian dictatorship, by its very nature, works in great secrecy and knows how to preserve that secrecy from the prying eyes of outsiders." - William Shirer, The Rise And Fall of the Third Reich: A History of Nazi Germany (pp.x-xi)

RandomThug · Post by **RandomThug** » Fri May 28, 2004 12:58 pm

Didn't the Iraqi people want it tore down? While it does make sense on your guy's reasoning..... no ones going to forget I mean the pictures are out there... I dont think tearing it down is anything political... perhaps your reaching.

Dottie · Post by **Dottie** » Fri May 28, 2004 1:15 pm

@Random Thug: If it was anounced the prison was to be torn down the moment the war was over I may have bought that, but not as things are now.

@Fable: Either that, or it is Bush's way of saying "Sorry Iraq, but look, now I am doing something about it". I dont know, perhaps he genuinly belives he is adressing the problem.

Gwalchmai · Post by **Gwalchmai** » Fri May 28, 2004 2:08 pm

Originally posted by Sojourner
Too bad Bush never read Rise and Fall of the Third Reich:

"A totalitarian dictatorship, by its very nature, works in great secrecy and knows how to preserve that secrecy from the prying eyes of outsiders." - William Shirer, The Rise And Fall of the Third Reich: A History of Nazi Germany (pp.x-xi)

*Shudder*

Wow. That's about the most chilling comparison I've heard about the Bush Administration.

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Sat May 29, 2004 2:50 am

Originally posted by Gwalchmai
[BThat's about the most chilling comparison I've heard about the Bush Administration. [/b]

Ah, but the Bush administration isn't anything like the Third Reich. Bush believes in the democratic principles we all value. It's not like he stole the elections or secretly planned this war and stuff like that.

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Sat May 29, 2004 3:44 am

Right, the Bush admin isn't anything like that.

"The Bush administration has put a much tighter lid than recent presidents on government proceedings and the public release of information, exhibiting a penchant for secrecy that has been striking to historians, legal experts and lawmakers of both parties." - NY Times, Jan 3, 2003

"I'm the commander, I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the interesting thing about being the President. Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody an explanation...." - G.W. BUSH, From an interview conducted by Bob Woodward for 'The Washington Post'

"It would be a heck of a lot easier to be a dictator than work in a democracy." - Then Texas Govenor George W. Bush, 1996

"There ought to be limits to freedom" - May 21, 1999 Then Texas Govenor and Presidential candidate George W. Bush, referring to a website(GWBush.com) that parodied his campaign. May 21, 1999

"The Patriot Act was not meant to be just for terrorism," Department of Justice spokesman Mark Corallo, November, 2003

"The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and co-operation. It will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life.... " - Chancellor Adolf Hitler's Proclaimation to the German Nation, Feb 1, 1933