Originally posted by VoodooDali
Here are my questions for creationism:
1. Do you work within the scientific method? If so, do you hold that it is possible for creationism to be falsified? Implicit in the scientific method is the belief that nothing is absolutely proven for all time. Scientists hold that all truly scientific theories are capable of being falsified. That is, researchers must always be prepared for some future experiment or investigation that will prove that an existing theory is invalid. Without falsification, the scientific method would not be a self-correcting process. With falsification, any errors are eventually detected and corrected. If not, are you of the view that God said it, I believe it, and that settles it?
Yes, I use the scientific method. Yes, I believe it is possible for creationism to be falsified, though that has yet to occur. I am also of the view that God said it, I believe it, and that settles it. I see no conflict between my two views.
2. What do you think of the creation stories of other religions? Although there are many points of similarity among the creation stories of some religions, there are also great differences. Most creation stories are mutually exclusive. For example if the biblical creation story is true, then all of the hundreds of creation stories of the other religious holy books and oral traditions are are wrong.
I do not know much about other creation stories, so I won't bother commenting here.
3. How can a rock be dated as being billions of years old by the use of radioisotope analysis, if the world (and the rock) was created less than ten thousand years ago? If you believe that radiometric dating is erroneous, then you would have to conclude that various scientific analysis methods are in error by a factor of perhaps a million times.
I do not believe that the world was created less than ten thousand years ago. I believe that the 24-hour periods mentioned in the Bible are figurative and that there is no set amount of time for each individual "day." I also believe that we are still in the 6th day and that the 7th day will be the return of Jesus Christ when God will finally truly be allowed to rest.
4. Do you accept the Genesis Flood story as true? How do you account for these problems with the story?
It says that Noah loaded the entire ark with two (or seven) from each species within a 24 hour day. This would have required him to have taken into the vessel, classified and stored 480 species per second.
I'm assuming you're not including aquatic animals in this calculation. Have you also considered that the diversity we know may not have been as extensive at the time of the flood? How do you know how many animals would've been on the flood? IIRC, the exact dating of the flood is not know for sure.
Noah took his wife, three sons, and three daughters-in-law into the ark. Each person would have had to sort, house, look after, feed, water, and remove the excrement from about 5 million animals each day.
Do you really think that God would have Noah take on such a task without providing some way to deal with problems that might would normally occur if someone attempted this task?
Noah is said to have built an all-wooden arc about 450 feet long. Long wooden ships, some as long as 300 feet, have actually been built, but they required extensive metal reinforcing - an option not available to Noah. And they leaked badly, requiring either a large crew or mechanically driven pumps to remove water from the hold. Motor driven pumps were not available in those days, and there were not enough humans on the arc to manually pump the water.
IIRC, the ark was built out of a type of wood of which no one knows anything about. If tihs is the case, then what makes you think this wood couldn't handle such a task? Also remember that, going on the idea that the story of Noah's Ark is true, God had a hand in the design and well-being of the boat and its crew.
Many animals can only survive in certain small regions of the earth where the food supply and temperatures are ideal. These species could not have left their homeland, moved through jungle and desert in order to reach the arc; they would not have survived the journey.
There was no mechanism whereby animals found only in North America, South America, and Australia could cross oceans and arrive at the arc.
Refer to previous comments.
When there are fewer than about 20 members to a species, extinction is inevitable, even when massive human intervention occurs. After the flood there would have been only 2 or 7 members to each species; they would not have survived.
Again, refer to previous.
The Tower of Babel is recorded as happening 110 to 150 years after the flood. How could the 3 fertile female human survivors of the flood (Noah's step daughters) produce such a large number of descendants within 6 generations?
*ahem* I would not say that this impossible, especially with God's help in the matter.
There is no indication of a worldwide flood in ancient Egyptian, Indus or Chinese writings, temples, pyramids, sculptures, etc., which existed at the time of Noah. Yet, if the flood really did occur, then all of the world's early civilizations would have been completely destroyed. The entire population of the world would have consisted of 8 people, in the vicinity of the ark. It would have taken millennia for humanity to become re-established in China and elsewhere. Also, they would have developed a very different culture from the pre-flood society. The archeological record in Egypt would show a sudden change from ancient Egyptian artifacts, to no signs of civilization, to ancient Israelite culture after the time of the flood. The archeological record in China would show a sudden change from ancient Chinese artifacts, to no signs of civilization, to ancient Israelite culture after the time of the flood. And so on.
First off, IIRC, the Isrealites did not exist as a people until long after the flood. In fact, unless I am greatly mistaken, Abraham came from the same country that the Epic of Gilgamesh came from. The first Isrealite would have been Abraham's grandson...or more accurately, I would think, Jacob's sons, which would make them Abraham's GreatGrandsons. Since there was no Isrealite culture before the flood, nor an Isrealite culture until much time after the flood, it can be assumed that it would be quite impossible for Isrealite culture to replace Chinese or Egyptian culture.
As to exactly when the flood happened, that I do not know. My Bible has a timeline in it and, IIRC, it lists the Flood as undated.
But the archeological record shows that the various cultures were not interrupted; they continued to develop throughout the period when the flood is supposed to have happened. For example, the Egyptian "Old Kingdom" covered the era from 2649 BCE to 2134 BCE, the 3rd to the 8th dynasty. In particular, the fifth dynasty covered the interval 2465 to 2323 BCE, straddling the time when conservative Christians believe that the flood happened.
Since I don't know when the flood occured, I cannot comment on this.
How would the fish survive? Some fish require fresh water, some brackish water and some salt water. If sufficient water were added to the oceans so that the level rose above that of the highest mountains, then the salinity of the oceans would drastically change. There would have been a mass die-off of fish species; only a few tolerant ocean fish would have survived. The salt content of all the fresh water lakes in the world would drastically increase, causing a die-off of numerous fish species found only in fresh water.
Since the only way to really answer these questions is from the viewpoint that there was a flood, this means that the viewpoint includes the believe that God exists. Going from that viewpoint, what other explanation is needed for that than that God took care of the fish in his own way.
