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Crenshinibon wrote:I think for backstabbing, the staff is a must. I almost never specialize in Katanas as by the time you're in ToB, you have better weapons to use. There are only two magical Katanas worth noting in the game and in my opinion, neither of them are that good. For normal combat (and Assassination) you'd probably end up using Belm +2 in the off hand and Spectral Brand +5 in the main hand.

Again, if you fight shapechanged, the only thing that matters is increasing your resistances and attack speed as the strength bonuses from items (such as the girdles) do not carry over to your new form. If anything, I'd use the Dak'kon's Zerth Blade for the extra spells per day. If you DO intend to do most of your fighting in your human form, then taking longswords for Blackrazor or Angurvadal may be worth your while.

I appreciate the feedback, thank you!

//C

Edit: Oh and while we're at it, lets talk HLAs
Not sure GWW is worth bothering with for any of the guys, what with improved haste available and the fact they all dualwield. The only ones set in stone is UAI/Assassination (No, I don't want to use spike traps) for the kensai/thief and improved alactrity for the kensai/mage really.

Never underestimate the power of deathblow and greater deathblow, especially when dealing with Mind Flayers and the like.

Yes, I started avoiding traps too. I suggest you stick withwhat you mentioned as well as Greater Evasion for the speed and AC boost.

Your fighter/cleric combo would be so much better if you waited until your fighter HLAs and got Hardiness. With 85% physical resistance and regeneration (putting your impressive AC aside), you're unmovable.

Yes, Greater Deathblow may sound bad, but did you know that Beholders and Mindflayers are below the specified level, multiple drow included.

GWW is only worth it for a Monk in my opinion.

None of your characters will gain access to fighter HLAs so there's no need to think about GWW or other fighter HLAs.

For your mage and cleric you'll have to take all HLAs anyway, your only choice is the order in which you take them.

So only the thief HLAs might be worth bothering about, but since you'll get 16 of them it won't even hurt if you waste some.

kmonster wrote:None of your characters will gain access to fighter HLAs so there's no need to think about GWW or other fighter HLAs.

For your mage and cleric you'll have to take all HLAs anyway, your only choice is the order in which you take them.

So only the thief HLAs might be worth bothering about, but since you'll get 16 of them it won't even hurt if you waste some.

Good point

//C

I actually liked your original choice of proficiencies better.

Carnifex wrote:Kensai/Mage: Shortsword, Katana (I'd hate not to utilize the celestial fury)
Kensai/Thief: Scimitar (I assume there's at least two viable scimitars out there, yes?), Quarterstaff (for the backstabs)

Why exactly are you considering Quarterstaff a good backstabbing weapon? You do realize, don't you, that the Staff of Magi can't backstab? Even though it is a staff, it is a mage-only item and doesn't qualify for the backstab bonus. Staff of the Ram is good for backstabbing, I think, but you don't get it early and it seems strange to center a thief character around it.

Carnifex wrote:Kensai/Mage: Longsword (Angurvadal, Equalizer, Daystar, Blackrazor), Shortsword (Mask, Kundane)
Kensai/Thief: Katana (mainhand Celestial Fury), Scimitar (offhand Belm)

This is better but I wouldn't give up on the Staff of Magi for your mage. In addition to the invisibility and dispel magic, you get a free spell trap which can recharge your arsenal. Also, with Staves proficiency there are lots of one-hit-kill items for various creatures (elementals, golems, etc.).


I would go for:
Kensai/Mage: Grand Mastery in Quaterstaff plus two-handed weapons. Pickup daggers when you dual to Mage since you won't be able to use slings and there are some good throwing daggers out there. (Boomerang dagger early and Firetooth later.) You are going to want to keep this guy out of combat until he regains his Kensai levels.

Kensai/Thief: Grand Mastery in Katanas and dual-wielding. Use your Thief points to pickup Scimitars. Dual-wileding Celestial Fury and Belm is an awesome combination. Furthermore, if you put Belm in the off-hand, you can switch out your main-hand weapons to give you more flexibility without sacrificing the extra attack that Belm gives. Switching between dual-wielding and two-handed weapons is a bit of a chore and it wastes weapon-style proficiencies. If you simply must use UAI to wield Carsomyr (over-rated in my opinion) you can always pass on the Grand Mastery and make this guy a multi-weapon specialist. Don't forget to give him proficiencies in blunt weapons as there are lots of creatures who are resistant to sharp objects.

Why do ppl have a problem with backstabs with a staff? If you read the official AD&D description of a backstab, it boils down to being an unseen or unexpected attack to a vital area. It doesn't have to be a stabbing weapon.

Well the term is stab, not whack with a stick.

Verb: Stab

1. Use a knife on
2. pierce
3. Poke or thrust abruptly


The attack should only work with a piercing weapon, not a slashing or blunt one.

That's how it's always been in my experience, but of course that experience started with AD&D in it's original form.

Pedantic input on the 'backstab' thing.
Apologies in advance if I annoy anyone.

Firstly, as galraen pointed out, one of the definitions of 'stab' is: Poke or thrust abruptly. Meaning (purely in theory) that you can backstab with any weapon that comes to hand, so stave's are a viable option.

Secondly, in the list of weapons that one can backstab with, why aren't spears included? They fit the description perfectly

Read the description in your AD&D books though. Right away it admits that a "backstab" isn't always actually a "stab"

galraen wrote:You'll absolutely slaughter the game with that combo. The only thing I can think of worth mentioning is that a duel-classed fighter->mage is not limited in what weapons he/she can use once the fighter class becomes active again, unlike a fighter->Cleric. So you could actually go for another weapon whilst you're a fighter, unless you really want to use a staff of course.

Nobody commented on your quite good pun. At least, I assume it's a pun and not a typo. If it is deliberate, I have the same sort of humour, much to the annoyance of my wife.

I dismissed it as a spelling mistake. I think it as such, but a play on words is so fun! My significant other doesn't like it though. xD

Sorry guys, you've lost me, and there's definitely no spelling mistakes on that text.

You wrote "duel-classed" instead of "dual-classed". The word "dual" means double, thus "double-classed" while the word "duel" means a fight or a contest, usually between to people.

Well at least I spelled it right!:laugh: Just goes to show you shouldn't trust a spell checker to do everything for you.