Real life is keeping me a bit busy, so just a brief drop in.
Firstly, I have to say I find it amusing that my thread is luring fellow Canadians out of the closet, I thought we were a dying breed here at Game Banshee!
As far as the keeping on topic stuff goes, sure I'd like for the thread to stay more or less on the reasons why people vote the way they do, but some of the most interesting conversations I've ever seen here are those that have wandered all over the place, so I'm not overly fussed...just as long as people don't start discussing the colour and style of politicians underwear or something
And I'll actually try to make some substantive comments later on, thanks very much for the replies guys
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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. Spoiler
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.......All those moments ... will be lost ... in time ... like tears in rain.
When Canadians get together, it's rarely good. I think the rest of the internet community tries to keep us separated for that reason. :laugh:
Oh, I read it, just mentioning that you can't really say too much about the conservatives having done questionable things after seeing the liberals in action, lol!
I think the "undecided" fall into three catagories
1. Those folks who have not bothered to even get to know the names of the candidates. When asked who they would vote for they can simply reply. "I am undecided at this time." They may be apathetic enough not to vote at all in the election.
2. Those that are, at some level, either ashamed or embarrassed at their choice and do not want their peer group to find out that they are a closet conservative or liberal.
3. Those that believe that their choice is private and that a closed ballot is closed for a reason.
Dowaco wrote:I think the "undecided" fall into three catagories
1. Those folks who have not bothered to even get to know the names of the candidates. When asked who they would vote for they can simply reply. "I am undecided at this time." They may be apathetic enough not to vote at all in the election.
2. Those that are, at some level, either ashamed or embarrassed at their choice and do not want their peer group to find out that they are a closet conservative or liberal.
3. Those that believe that their choice is private and that a closed ballot is closed for a reason.
There might be a fourth category (although I don't know if this falls into one of the three that you have already mentioned), and that is the voter that is disenfranchised with the choices and does not have a clue as to whether they will actually vote for the main choices, go with a third-party, vote NOTA, or simply not vote at all.
That is me in a nutshell. I consider myself a "recovering Republican" who was actually fooled into think that the Republican party were a bunch of good, God-fearing, country-loving men and women when in actuality they are no better than the Democrats. So the reason I consider myself "undecided" is because I haven't decided whether I will vote NOTA or third-party. Both have their disadvantages but there has to be a good decision, so I am still up in the air.
The only thing I will say for certain is that Obamcain will not be getting my vote.
The7thStooge...
Q- "There are three men in a room with three beds, but only two blankets. How do they keep warm?"
I've been meaning to comment for the last week, but extensive school work and then Thanksgiving took a sizable portion of my time.
I'm actually studying political participation at the moment, and one of the issues in that is obviously voting. There's a huge number of reasons why people get out and vote:
-Political interest: this is a no-brainer. People that are more interested in politics, either for self-interest or based on issues, are far more likely to vote in an election. Issue-based voting occurs on all sides of every issue: pro-environment, anti-abortion, accountability, etc. All of these issues can drive people to vote in a particular campaign. Self-interest relates to this as well, as people who want more spending in an area (like childcare) that affects them are more likely to vote; this also works for taxes, as cutting taxes is a rather popular way of getting people to vote based on their self-interest.
-Party Affiliation: Obviously, when people are involved with a particular party, they tend to vote in every election, and always for that party.
-Civic Duty: even for people that don't necessary concern themselves with day-to-day politics, during elections people often come out for a number of reasons relating to civic duty. The idea that soldiers have died for this right, that people around the world WANT this right and don't have it, and that it is the action of participating in society are all arguments for voting based on civic duty.
-Protest: tons of protest parties exist, and when people aren't happy with the current state of affairs, it often leads people to vote for certain parties. For example, the eight years of anti-Bush sentiment has caused a huge boost for those supporting Obama, and in Canada there has been a number of anyone-but-conservatives movements in the last few elections, and against the Liberals before that.
-Competitiveness: when an election is competitive, more people vote. Look at the Democratic Primary this year, at the voting registration numbers for this year in the US, and conversely at how low turnout in the current Canadian election is expected to be, or was usually when majorities were expected in the past.
There's also a ton of studies on why people don't vote.
-The meaningless vote. I have a roommate that votes, and another that refuses since he doesn't believe one vote matters at all.
-Political apathy. People that don't care about politics and aren't informed on the issues and candidates are, obviously, much less likely to vote.
-Disenfranchisement. If a political system seems to no longer be interested in a certain group, usually that group will vote in lower numbers. The pre-Palin McCain ticket was afraid about this from the Christian Right, and youth votes everywhere also have this.
On a personal level, I'm a political science student and so I'm a little biased when looking at politics. I've voted every opportunity I could since I reached the appropriate age because besides all the investment I have in political issues and the interest I have in the system, I really buy into the argument that its a person's civic duty to vote. Not voting is essentially part of the "free rider" philosophical argument: sure, one vote doesn't matter, but on the aggregate, that idea would cause the system to fall apart. So, its everyone's duty to make sure they do their (small) part. I also definitely feel that people that don't vote should *never* complain about the system.
One of the things that really bugs me about the lack of a youth vote in Canada is that not only is my generation fairly uncaring/disillusioned about politics right now, but its that none of the major parties really care; the NDP and the Greens are the only ones that sort of care, and their influence on non-partisan Elections Canada is minimal. The fact that MANY of my friends did not know where to vote, how to vote, or what they needed to vote is pretty aggravating because the information isn't the easiest to come by. As such, I've been doing my best to educate my friends, but the system still seems pretty unfriendly to the youth vote. [url="http://www.cbc.ca/mercerreport/video.html"]Rick Mercer's recent rant[/url] about the topic was quite good, and more or less mirrors what I think about the subject (its in the Oct. 7, 2008, entry, the fourth video down).
Anyways, today is election day, and the outcome will probably be the same number of seats for each party, give or take ten. At a cost of $300 million, nothing changes.
If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do.
dragon wench wrote:
Canada has never had a leader this far to the right (with the possible exception of RB Bennett), and the socially conservative right at that.
And incidentally, for the record, while I am quite openly to the left, I would also like to mention that I view Layton and Dion as a pair of boneheads... The political landscape in this country is bleak indeed.
I agree completely, which is why I'm voting based on how qualified the local candidates are in my riding. I can't bring myself to support any of the major parties. I have a few friends (who are politically involved and study Public Affairs and Administration) that are seriously considering going to their polling places today and then refusing or spoiling their ballots in protest.
Note: I see the above as completely different from not voting. Not voting is one thing, but the ACTION of not voting (in this case, actively coming out and not voting) is quite a different thing.
If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do.
Ugh.. I don't think I've ever felt this apathetic voting in any election, provincial or federal. The only reason I'm even bothering is because the race is pretty tight in our riding.
Looking like another Harper minority.... Talk about embarrassing *sigh* At this present rate of progression Canadians traveling in Europe will be sewing US flags onto their back packs..
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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. Spoiler
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.......All those moments ... will be lost ... in time ... like tears in rain.
To be honest, I was going to be happy if it was a minority any which way. Not surprised that the NDP improved using their EVERYONE ELSE SUCKS VOTE FOR US message. :laugh:
... don't *quite* get the American reference to the same extent as I think you do -- I'll attribute that to me being ignorant instead of giving a smart remark.
I'd offer you an internet huggles but I'm not sure that's appropriate on this board.
Kaer wrote:To be honest, I was going to be happy if it was a minority any which way. Not surprised that the NDP improved using their EVERYONE ELSE SUCKS VOTE FOR US message. :laugh:
... don't *quite* get the American reference to the same extent as I think you do -- I'll attribute that to me being ignorant instead of giving a smart remark.
I'd offer you an internet huggles but I'm not sure that's appropriate on this board.
lol, well there are advantages to this outcome... Stevie doesn't have carte blanche to do as he pleases and the spectacular loss of Liberal support probably ensures they'll ditch Dion.
Heh... I was referring to the stereotype of Americans pretending to be Canucks while travelling in Europe in the hopes of encountering a friendlier reception... I suspect that situation is about to start reversing
Aww, well that's sweet, "internet huggles" are fine here as long as the context is OK. Of course... if you read some old threads, you might come away with a skewed idea of what defines "fine," but we are much tamer now
Keep meaning to write a more in-depth reply to this thread but my RL has suddenly gone nuts.. *sigh*
Spoiler
testingtest12
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. Spoiler
testingtest12
.......All those moments ... will be lost ... in time ... like tears in rain.
I really hope they do ditch Dion for someone who seems to be more willing to steer a single platform at a time.
You're going to have to give me a rundown on what's up with Harper from your point of view, I'd like to hear it. No worries about leaving us hanging, I sincerely doubt we'll forget about this thread in a week or two's time (Speak Your Mind doesn't seem to move *that* fast).
Indeed? Then a huggles for mutual dissatisfaction with our choices for government! :laugh: Also, thanks for the warning on past stuff, I don't think I'd want to delve through 300 pages anyways.
In spite of any earlier comments, I believe that for this election at least this is the best outcome. No Party deserved a majority. The conservatives did have the best outlook for a troubled economy. The other would have buggered things up with various wacky tax schemes and we would all have ended up freezing in the dark I'm sure. Nice knowing you Dion, come out from hiding, resign and make room for someone who can actually articulate themselves. To all Canucks who voted, congrats
Why do I vote: Because it is my right and my obligation.
Why do I vote the way I do: Before every election in Sweden, I try to find out exactly how each party will act in specific issues that I find important. It's not the same issues every time, it depends on the situation right now. For instance, before the last election I focused a lot on what the major parties would do, concretely, to reduce sick leave rates and increase the number of people working. In other elections, I've focused on the EU, specific financial questions, specific job market issues and other things. Then of course there is group of issues that I always view as important, such as immigration, health care, national finances, environmental questions, education etc. My strategy for deciding how I should vote, of course means that I vote for different parties in different elections, depending on how I assess their program for the issues I find most important. Usually I end up voting center-liberal-right, but at one occation I remember voting Social Democrat in the County elections (we have three elections at the same time in Sweden, parliament, county and municipality) because the Counties are responsible for the health care system, and the Social Democrats were against privatisation of the university hospital ER clinics in Stockholm County, whereas all the centre-right wing parties were for that and I view it as very important that specialist emergency healthcare should not be privatised.
Why do people in general vote they way they do: Studies of decision making, attitudes and values in relation to voting and political stance, has shown that the vast majority of people vote they way they do based on emotional arguments. Unfortunately, most people do not vote based on conclusions they draw from researching major issues and making realistic assessment of the results of each party's politics. Instead, most people vote based on irrational ideas such as personal identification "I've always been a Social Democrat", personal feelings towards representatives from the parties "I'm voting yes to the Maastricht treaty because Mitterand says we should and I like him, he's so nice" and irrational fears like "If the Democrats win the election, the US will turn into the Soviet Union".
"There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance." - Hippocrates
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