Unofficial Bloodlines Patch 6.0 ready for release!

Houston810 · Post by **Houston810** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:26 am

Things that don't make sense.

Jack line- there is a line that Smiling Jack says when you first leave the theater, something like "lets talk over here" or "let walk over here" and then you say something and Jack says "that's better, christ it's stuffy in there", it's my opinion that this whole sequence should be cut, trashed, deleted, because you don't walk anywhere, or go anywhere, your not inside so it can't be "stuffy in there" your not even in the door way anymore. It just doesn't make sense. If your overall goal is improving this game then you should cut it.

No infinite Blood at the blood bank- this is just do the fact that you make it possible for the protagonist to, in theory, "clean out the store" you could buy as much blood as you wanted as long as you have the money. Which for many reasons is unrealistic. I've run all the numbers and considered many different factors and have come to the conclusion that the blood bank should only sell 5 to 6 bags of blood for every "night" of the game. I'm lazy and I don't want to type all the stuff I did so I just ask that you take my word for it.

Definitely no infinite Elder Vite- Same reasons as above, 2 to 3 bags a game night or 12 bags spaced any way you want through out the game.

Personal Requests

Restore Eldrich prodigy bonus?

Sir Twist · Post by **Sir Twist** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:26 pm

Ok, first of all, the line, I believe, is "Psst, over here." It's to attract your attention, and initiate the conversation. The "it's stuffy in there" is also kind of important, it's descriptive of Jack's mood. And it also shows that Jack doesn't like politics, at least on that level.

mzz · Post by **mzz** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:21 am

Sir Twist wrote:Ok, first of all, the line, I believe, is "Psst, over here." It's to attract your attention, and initiate the conversation. The "it's stuffy in there" is also kind of important, it's descriptive of Jack's mood. And it also shows that Jack doesn't like politics, at least on that level.

I think you have two parts of the "tutorial" meeting with Jack mixed up. The initial meeting goes something like this (parts between brackets are comments, copied from the game's dlg files, not things I added myself).

Jack: [laughing at something no one else thinks is funny]What a scene, man! Hoo-wee! Then they just plop ya out here like a naked baby in the woods. [chuckle]How 'bout that? Ah... look, kiddo, this is probably a lot for you to take in, so uh, why don't you let me show you the ropes. Whaddya say?
You: Who are you?
Jack: I'm Jack. What's important is, I'm offering help. You make it back from Santa Monica with your hide and we'll trade life stories, m'kay? Till then, I got about... this much time. You in or out?
You: Okay. I could use the help.
Jack: [like the Fonz]Alright.
Jack: [looking around at the other vampires in the room]Uhh... why don't we, uh, step out back here.
You: I like it where I am. At least I'm out of that theatre.
Jack: Christ, it's stuffy in there, huh? This is much better.

"other vampires in the room"? I'm assuming you were supposed to run into Jack inside the theatre, that was cut, and this line was added back but the moving around was not? Did not really bug me (like you said the "it's stuffy in there" makes sense even though the "step out back here" does not).

I think the "over here" you were thinking of was this one:

Jack: [Loud whisper. Addressing player from 20-30 feet away.]Come down here! Stay away from the windows.

which he says when you're inside the warehouse (at least I think it was a warehouse) and about to witness the sheriff killing three sabbat members.

And a completely unrelated minor glitch: when talking to Beckett under the museum yesterday I got to where I'm supposed to get the "This is all fascinating stuff..." line where he gives you a scholarship boost if it is low enough, but that option did not appear. The only option I got was the "I could give a damn about this stuff..." line, which was annoying because I usually get along with Beckett pretty well

I'm looking at the requirements now and can't spot a bug though. Is this something you know about (because it's intentional or because it's a bug you already fixed)?

Sir Twist · Post by **Sir Twist** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:46 am

Mzz, I knew I had the sequence wrong, but I also knew that they were both in there, somewhere, in the tutorial. BTW, Thanks for helping me out. It's been a while, and I don't pay much attention to the conversation in the beginning.
And yes Houston810, the whole sequence of events are important, as well as the dialogue. And you can skip parts of those long speeches by pressing spacebar. Try it some time.

Wesp5 · Post by **Wesp5** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:05 am

mzz wrote:I think you have two parts of the "tutorial" meeting with Jack mixed up. The initial meeting goes something like this (parts between brackets are comments, copied from the game's dlg files, not things I added myself).

I know that Jacks new lines may sound a little bit misplaced but I wanted to restore them and just couldn't think about something better.

And a completely unrelated minor glitch: when talking to Beckett under the museum yesterday I got to where I'm supposed to get the "This is all fascinating stuff..." line where he gives you a scholarship boost if it is low enough, but that option did not appear.

I already fixed a bug there which made that when you followed a wrong line of Beckett one of the necessary conditions was reset to never be met again.

Sir Twist · Post by **Sir Twist** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:34 am

Wesp, thanks for all you do for the game with these unofficial patches. I am pretty sure you have your hands full, with whatever else you do, aside from testing your next update, and setting it up for us to play it, as well. I've noticed you've dug up, or even added in content, for which I love. I was wondering if there was much more, or is that about it?

This is just a suggestion only, please keep that in mind. The suggestion is the possible inclusion of the P&P mod, and things like that. Or else talking to the author, and seeing if they couldn't make it compatible with your updates. This is something I'm throwing out as something to think about.

Wesp5 · Post by **Wesp5** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:33 am

Sir Twist wrote:I've noticed you've dug up, or even added in content, for which I love. I was wondering if there was much more, or is that about it?

There will be some unused posters in 6.1, but at the moment I don't think that there is much hidden content left to restore unless we can get models for some of the weapons that were cut.

The suggestion is the possible inclusion of the P&P mod, and things like that. Or else talking to the author, and seeing if they couldn't make it compatible with your updates.

The PnP mod should work okay when installed on top of the unofficial patch. Dheu, the creator of the companion mod, promised that it will be updated to include the latest patch with release 2.0.

Sir Twist · Post by **Sir Twist** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:29 pm

I didn't think that there wasn't a whole lot of content left to restore. I think that the remaining content is possibly just stuff that hasn't a model for it, or a real name.

Houston810 · Post by **Houston810** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:04 am

mzz wrote:
Jack: [looking around at the other vampires in the room]Uhh... why don't we, uh, step out back here.
You: I like it where I am. At least I'm out of that theatre.
Jack: Christ, it's stuffy in there, huh? This is much better.

Ok, Sir Twist, the above sequence of dialogue has no place. AT ALL! Even wesp himself said a couple post up that they sound misplaced. In truth idk why the lines were left over, but, as mzz said, it was most likely from a sequence in which you meet up with Jack inside and then go outside.

Obviously since we already start outside (note the line "they just plop ya OUT here like a naked baby in the woods") there is no "out back" to step out back into.

But yeah, sure, the last line could be (if you wanted to view it in your own subjective way and take it upon yourself to speak for the writer/s and or the subconscious of a fictional character in which you've had no hand in creating AT ALL) "descriptive of Jack's mood. And it also shows that Jack doesn't like politics" but for that to happen, that line would have to have a place, and with out the sequence of you and Jack "stepping out back" it doesn't.

The last line, "Christ, it's stuffy in there, huh? This is much better.", could be placed after the character says "What happen in there?" and before Jack says "Don't worry, kiddio, you'll adjust. I'd love to explain it all but time's a-wastin'- you want some help or not?" and there it would still hold to your "descriptive of Jack's mood. And it also shows that Jack doesn't like politics" thing, which I'm not saying is a wrong assumption of Jack's persona I was just mad when I type the above paragraph

So my new sequence would go something like this:

Jack: "What a scene, man! Hoo-wee! Then they just plop ya out here like a naked baby in the woods. [chuckle]How 'bout that? Ah... look, kiddo, this is probably a lot for you to take in, so uh, why don't you let me show you the ropes. Whaddya say?"

PC: "What happen in there?"

Jack: "Christ, it's stuffy in there, huh? This is much better."
Jack: "Don't worry, kiddio, you'll adjust. I'd love to explain it all but time's a-wastin'- you want some help or not?"

PC: "Who are you?"

Jack: "I'm Jack. What's important is, I'm offering help. You make it back from Santa Monica with your hide and we'll trade life stories, m'kay? Till then, I got about... this much time. You in or out?"

PC: "Okay. I could use the help."

Jack: "Alright."
Jack: "Now, we ain't got much time, but I figure somebody should fill you in on the bare bone stuff at least, ya know. Could save your hide.
Jack: "You look wobbly; you even had a drink yet?"

raise your hand if you like this new dialogue sequence

Sir Twist · Post by **Sir Twist** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:45 am

Do you realize the amount of time it will take to edit those lines out? It's not just a matter of changing text lines, it's a matter of editing sound files as well. It has to flow, and be smooth. Unless you want to spend hours doing all that, then be my guest. As for me, the spacebar works, and I prefer using that to get ahead in the game.

Houston810 · Post by **Houston810** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:00 pm

Dude I have no idea how long it would take, all I know it that Wesp is trying to make this game as good as it can be and so am I. So when I see something that can be better I'm gona speak up.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:02 pm

The Obfuscate thread got me thinking about something for the plus patch. What would you think of Blood Strike and Blood Salvo that actually allowed you to move, as Bloodsuckers' Communion does?

While playing a Tremere, I found it to be not overly practical to use the discipline and wait in the same spot, especially with multiple enemies around.

That, and as I stated in the other thread, the way to get the most out of it is to count how many strikes it take for the enemy to die. Because sure, you can easily kill by spamming it, however, you can overdo it and actually lose more blood than you hoped to gain.

Wesp5 · Post by **Wesp5** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:17 am

Crenshinibon wrote:The Obfuscate thread got me thinking about something for the plus patch. What would you think of Blood Strike and Blood Salvo that actually allowed you to move, as Bloodsuckers' Communion does?

Isn't this already the case with higher levels of Thaumaturgy?

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:00 am

I thought that Blood Salvo didn't allow you to move either. I'll have to load up my game and check a bit later though.

Also, what do you think about the last hit not granting any blood and still being able to fire (the disciplines) at a target that is already dead (all life is gone, however still targetable)?

EDIT: I just tried it, firing Blood Salvo and then moving, this did not grant me back any blood.

Sir Twist · Post by **Sir Twist** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:58 am

If I am low on blood, I'll use blood strike, on the enemy I am fighting. Typically, if the person is moving around on me, I'll send it out, and get close, so I don't miss it, if I can. If I can't, I just stand still.

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:58 pm

To me, the limitation is a but too much, so I find it easier to just overpower the enemy and feed on them the old fashioned way

The discipline category and the clan description make me think that the Tremere almost fully rely on their sorcery, thus Blood Strike and Blood Salvo were included to make them more self sustainable. Again, I don't think it's practical to use those two skills as the enemy automatically attacks you, even if you are sneaking, so unless you feel like getting pummeled, those two spells are only good as initiators or until a [melee] enemy gets to you.

I think that it would make sense have both disciplines (or Blood Salvo, the higher one) allow you to move after firing it and still regain blood.

Sir Twist · Post by **Sir Twist** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:35 pm

I think that most people don't play Tremere because they aren't well understood, and they can be a tad under balanced, as well. I think that is true in some of the other clans, as well. However, the Tremere, as near as I can tell, and have yet played, is actually one of the more powerful of the clans.

Wesp5 · Post by **Wesp5** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:04 am

Crenshinibon wrote: I think that it would make sense have both disciplines (or Blood Salvo, the higher one) allow you to move after firing it and still regain blood.

No, these disciplines make the Tremere too powerful already, dealing damage and getting blood at the same time!

Crenshinibon · Post by **Crenshinibon** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:46 am

But doesn't the level four Animalism discipline Bloodsuckers' Communion to just that, if not more?

It allows you to deal damage, immobilize (if not kill) the target and gain blood at the same time.

Both, Blood Salvo and Bloodsuckers' Communion also cost three blood.

The latter seems to have a longer cooldown, but also appears to recover more blood. At least that's the way it appears to me.

Houston810 · Post by **Houston810** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:47 am

maybe once you reach lvl 5 the blood strikes could return the blood while your moving, reflecting greater practice of previous discipline lvls?

how much damg does Bloodsuckers' Communion do compared to blood strike?

I always play Tremere, and with the Eldrich Prodigy history's damg bonus cut (idk if you changed how much damg a blood strike does in anyway either, it kinda seems like it), my blood strikes just don't do enough damg to warrant their use at all really anymore. It's just not worth the loss of blood when your gun can do so much more damg quicker with out the risk of depleting your blood pool.