Unfinished RPGs?

Sykar · Post by **Sykar** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:54 pm

Stworca wrote:Spoiler alert.
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cEg5Xo7VFU"]26 second video explaining why Deus Ex was borked.[/url]

Those of you who played the game, will know what i mean. So will people who have read my first post in this thread.

Oblivion may have been an overall worse game - it was, after all, the worst TES part so far - but it had no plot raping moments. Sure it was too convenient at times, and it too was linear to boot, but at least the game didn't rub it in your face, like Deus Ex. The biggest crime DE committed was making a pseudo-"villain" organization that was right and forcing you to betray it.

Regards

The plot did not get 'raped' by any means. They instead focused on one plot instead of trying to fit two very different plots into one game.
And the so called 'terrorist' plot was extremly well made and I refuse to even say they were terrorists.
The real terrorists were the ones at FEMA but since they were the real leaders of UNATCO so UNATCO was unfit to do anything against FEMA. Some very important members of UNATCO were even loyal to them.
Manderly, Navarra, Gunther to name the 3 main UNATCO operatives.

Face it, for JC to stay with UNATCO would have meant a completely different game. While I would have liked to explore that posibility it by no means lessens the great game Deus Ex was offering with that single plot instead of two vastly different ones.

I could also complain about a lot of other RPGs who either got content cut out or lack of decisions even highly acclaimed ones like BG 2 or KotoR 2.

So to make a long story short, saying that Deus Ex was terrible because they did not make a complete second plot for a very stupid decision is really a stretch to put it politely

And how anyone could say that UNATCO was 'right', whatever you mean by that, after you discover that they were just there to cover up the gross genocide the FEMA was doing there spreading the grey death and witholding the vaccine to make them 'gods' as Bobby so evidently put it ain the intro is beyond me.
UNATCO was a pawn of the biggest terrorist group in the entire game.

And what did Deus Ex rub into your face? That the developers wanted to create only one story instead of 2? Oh my, now that's truely bad, not like any other RPG would not do that.
Ups no, almost all RPGS leave you on a fixed path and you never get a real opportunity to do anything but follow the plot line and very evidently so.
One of the very few RPGS who did give you some room to do the story at least somewhat differently was Arcanum, but even here the more drastic changes in story line did not come into place until you met Kerrgan.

Oblivion was not just the worst part of the TES, it was a terrible RPG which got ripped of many aspects which makes an RPG into an RPG and not only through dumbing down to the extreme.

The best TES is still Morrowind. While Daggerfall was larger, it was extremely repetetive with some serious bugs and incredibly stupid character generation possibilities.
I could not play through it and I really tried albeit it's by far not as bad as Oblivion and by no means am I considering graphics when I compare games.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:21 pm

Sykar wrote: damicat

Whilst I agree with a lot in the article on that link, number 9 is complete BS.

Stworca · Post by **Stworca** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:50 pm

The point is that at the moment JC betrayed UNATCO, the player doesn't know much about their wrongdoings. The game could've even no plot whatsoever, and still be good. I never said i wanted it to have five or more - of course you know my intentions better than i do.

It's the fact that they've created the entire "Paul or UNATCO" segment for two possible endings, and then cut out one of them, without changing any of the previous dialogue and "evidence". You get the "I've found that UNATCO eat babies and worship satan" dialogue, even if you don't find anything and just send the signal.

I don't mind the decisions being made for the player - most RPG's do that - but when i played the game, for the first time no less, JC and Paul had a rather tense relations, due to a lethal shot or two (opps?).
The NSF had many kills on their account, and their patronizing attitude when defeated wasn't making it easier to trust them.

When asked by Paul to investigate, i went to the building, went straight to the right room and have sent the signal.. Some out-of-context call from MJ12, Whole map goes red.. I flee back to Paul aaaand.. "You were right.." He was?! I didn't find any evidence! Now i'm joining the armed fiends, who blow hostages up and have get-out-of-jail lawyers?! Sure i love my brother, but THIS!?

I must have missed a huge part of the complex, perhaps some important notes, dialogues or burning crucifixes in UNATCO basement but this was how it went for me. No evidence, and i turned the game off, never to play it again. I did watch a LP at a later date.

The most important moment in the game, unfinished, inconsistent, repelling. Overall the game was great, but this...!?

It bothered me more than the "Evil" Arcanum ending. Why resist and fight, when you've agreed to..!? WHY?

As for Oblivion : Worry not. I think most people on this forum agree on that. For me Morrowind had no sequels.. yet

doady · Post by **doady** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:05 am

As a child I grew up playing Nintendo games like Castlevania or Super Mario 3 which were virtually impossible to complete, even for adults, and so to this day I feel little compulsion to complete any games. I am used to playing games over and over without beating them, and quite frankly, games that are easy to finish bore me, and so a lot of games today bore me. I guess that's partly why I play RPGs, especially the older RPGs, which are not as dumbed down (i.e. shortened) like newer RPGs to make it easier for people to complete.

IMO, games should be as difficult to complete as possible, whether it be through a ridiculous level of difficulty (e.g. Castlevania and numerous other NES games, Wizardry 8) or ridiculous length (e.g. Might and Magic VI, Baldur's Gate II). Completing a game is actually kind of disappointing to me in a weird way.

The only computer RPGs I've actually beaten are Baldur's Gate, and... I think that's it. Baldur's Gate I beat last year for the first time ever, after having owned the game for over 10 years. For console, the only RPG I beat was Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door.

Sykar · Post by **Sykar** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:53 am

Stworca wrote:The point is that at the moment JC betrayed UNATCO, the player doesn't know much about their wrongdoings. The game could've even no plot whatsoever, and still be good. I never said i wanted it to have five or more - of course you know my intentions better than i do.

It's the fact that they've created the entire "Paul or UNATCO" segment for two possible endings, and then cut out one of them, without changing any of the previous dialogue and "evidence". You get the "I've found that UNATCO eat babies and worship satan" dialogue, even if you don't find anything and just send the signal.

I don't mind the decisions being made for the player - most RPG's do that - but when i played the game, for the first time no less, JC and Paul had a rather tense relations, due to a lethal shot or two (opps?).
The NSF had many kills on their account, and their patronizing attitude when defeated wasn't making it easier to trust them.

When asked by Paul to investigate, i went to the building, went straight to the right room and have sent the signal.. Some out-of-context call from MJ12, Whole map goes red.. I flee back to Paul aaaand.. "You were right.." He was?! I didn't find any evidence! Now i'm joining the armed fiends, who blow hostages up and have get-out-of-jail lawyers?! Sure i love my brother, but THIS!?

I must have missed a huge part of the complex, perhaps some important notes, dialogues or burning crucifixes in UNATCO basement but this was how it went for me. No evidence, and i turned the game off, never to play it again. I did watch a LP at a later date.

/snip

It's a long time ago that I played it through completely but as far as I remember the very reason Paul send you to that building was that it contained evidence of UNATCOs wrong doings albeit right now cannot pin point what it was exactly.
And if you played it to that point and at least did the Castle Clinton Mission brute force you know what kind of person Agent Navarra is for example.
And if you did it peacefully and overhear her report to Manderly you know she says that your style is 'incompatible' with hers.

You could also get some insight by hacking Manderly's computer for example.

Of course you could not get the whole picture at such an early stage of the game it would have been kinda silly to uncover the whole plot.

And think again, your brother strikes you to be a person who easily betrays his faith and ideals? You don't think it would need something very serious to sway his mind?
And the thing about the kill switch did not strike you particularly odd? Like that being a very short leash?

NSA blew up hostages? Where? And Agent Navarra did not order you to kill an unarmed civillian who surrendered in that plane and Manderly was not extremly pissed about it if your refused to do so telling you that 'It's important that they trust you' and that did not strike some doubts in you? Or did you actually kill him on Navarras command? Mind you he got some insteresting points about your parents for example.
UNATCO soldiers laughing about Paul him giving them tear gas?
Come on UNATCO did a lot of questionable stuff, too.

galraen wrote:Whilst I agree with a lot in the article on that link, number 9 is complete BS.

Yeah well, I do think it's overall a good analysis why Oblivion is not a good RPG.

It had some nice merits but overall everything in that game is so extremely meaningless it's not even funny.
Like everything which makes your character your character with his distinct strengths and weaknesses is completely meaningless thanks to silly mini games and close combat almost compeltely reliable on player skill and much less if your character is actually fit for it.

Kipi · Post by **Kipi** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:35 pm

Morrowind

Started playing it dozens, perhaps hundreds of times, but never actually finished it. The early stage is too boring already as I remember all the quests and locations more or less completely, so it would require too much work with finding new mods to start over again.

Baldur's Gate 2 (+ ToB)

Again, dozens of restarts, but at some point my interest always drops down. I actually installed it to my laptop a while back, with ToB and several difficult and content mods, and was even able to finish chapter 2 with more or less all possible side quests being solved, but as I got a new laptop I just haven't felt the need to continue playing. That would require reinstalling the game again, as I'm not willing to open my old laptop for gaming anymore.

Sacred 2

The game was just too boring to continue past the second big city. Too repetitive with confusing skill system.

The Witcher

I tried to play it in several occasions, but as my computers (laptop and desktop) were closer to the minimum requirements the game was too laggy and looked terrible. For example, there were moments, surprisingly often, when critters, objects, even grass formed strange long "spikes", like some corners were stretched too much. I think I should reinstall the game now, though downloading nearly 1,5 GB worth of patches just to get it to work on either of my computers is not making me happy, especially even minor problem occurred during the loading may cause the files to be totally corrupted.

Deus Ex: Invisible War

While the first game was excellent, the second one was total catastrophe. The inventory system got worse, the controls were more clunky, the voice acting was terrible, especially the voice of Alex sounded more like made with synthesizer than acted. And even the story wasn't good enough to balance otherwise terrible game.

Duhbliv... I mean Oblivion

Dumbed down game with bad gameplay mechanism decisions, bad story and otherwise bad game, wasn't worth of my attention. The only good thing in it were the graphics, and even those weren't perfect.

Okay, there are few of the games I never finished. Hopefully I will finally finish The Witcher, as I already preordered the second game from GoG...

Anicsin · Post by **Anicsin** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:46 am

Lionheart... i think it's one of my biggest dissapointments. It has a magnificent plot and atmosphere, but the game is just too slow. In a hack-and-slash game you recommend that you can get forward fast, bashing and cutting every foe before you. In this game you have to WALK all the way, every time when you finnish a quest and every time when you go back to the town to resupply... that is the reason why I abandoned this game.

Icewind dale II is the otehr game which i have abandoned, not because i didn't like it, I actually love it, but i blew my party and since then i didn't got the inspiration to start that game again.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:33 am

Lionhearts problem is that it never was conceived as a hack & slash...

werebeargoddess · Post by **werebeargoddess** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:58 am

Oblivion. I actually don't hate it, which I think puts me into the minority. And I've never modded it, either. But I have yet to actually finish it. I don't find the storyline overly annoying or anything, and I do like the graphics, its just, I dunno. I know the one time I beat most of the game, I lost all of my game files due to the computer it was on dying. But since then, I guess I just lose interest or something. I'll start playing it, only to stop some time later.

I think I've been able to finish any other rpgs I've starte, unless you include the expansions to Morrowind. Finished the main storyline, started Trubunal, but then stopped right before I got to the final battle, and decided I wanted to roll a new character

Anicsin · Post by **Anicsin** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:45 am

GawainBS wrote:Lionhearts problem is that it never was conceived as a hack & slash...

But it actually looks like one... i mean look at the game system.

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:24 am

The game was supposed to be the style of Barcelona, with more quests and exploration. Time contraints prevented that.

BRKO · Post by **BRKO** » Mon May 09, 2011 5:59 am

neverwinter nights 1 + 2
lionheart
temple of elemental evil
icewind dale

Unfinished or better said never quite properly started games I dropped due to lack of time and family duties but plan to finish them one day. Some like Oblivion or Mass effect were just not to my taste so no replay in future.

I am thinking about The Witcher now, I liked the books a lot. And the GOG offer is just so tempting

The Traveller · Post by **The Traveller** » Mon May 16, 2011 6:02 am

NWN 2, just could not bring myself to invest the time to finish it.

Anicsin · Post by **Anicsin** » Tue May 17, 2011 2:42 pm

GawainBS wrote:The game was supposed to be the style of Barcelona, with more quests and exploration. Time contraints prevented that.

It would have make this game a masterpiece... what is your opinion about this game?

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Wed May 18, 2011 9:15 am

Anicsin wrote:It would have make this game a masterpiece... what is your opinion about this game?

I loved it very, very much up untill Montpellier, then it turned into a slashfest. No problem with that, but you felt it wasn't the kind of game that lent itself well to that. I'd give it an almost 90% up to and including Montpellier, and perhaps a 60% on the rest.

Anicsin · Post by **Anicsin** » Wed May 18, 2011 2:03 pm

At first look i thought that it will be like Black Isle's Baldur's gate. Hmm... now I've got some motivation for it, maybe I'll dig it up.

Faust · Post by **Faust** » Thu May 26, 2011 6:26 pm

I have a bad habit of starting and restarting (occasionally several times, for a variety of reasons) games. I'm a bit of a perfectionist about things. As a byproduct, I simply don't finish as many as I'd like. Some notable examples:

(1) Mass Effect 2: I actually like the game; I do plan on finishing it and will probably do so prior to the 3rd one coming out.

(2) BG: ToB: I'm not sure why I have never beaten it. The game was far too linear for me and I hated how fast I leveled in it. But, I think the real reason was that I never truly wanted my BG experience to end. One of these days, I'll fully mod up a copy of BG2 and ToB and beat the saga.

(3) Icewind Dale: Strangely, I did beat the second one. Both games were far too hack and slash for me.

(4) Fable 2 and 3. I own both. I probably will one day beat them both. The main reason is that I do not love either game.

(5) Fallout 3: I actually did like Fallout 3 (and I beat the originals years ago) more than many posters here. I honestly played the game for an incredibly long time and eventually got burnt out. I doubt I'll ever beat this one. Though, I am gradually working my way through New Vegas which I intend to beat.

(6) Oblivion: Again, I basically liked the game (unlike many others here, I realize), but - a bit like Fallout 3- I played it until I got bored.

(7) Morrowind: For whatever reason, I never fell in love with this game the way others did. The NPCs felt too generic to me.

Goodness, the list could go on...

Moot · Post by **Moot** » Sun May 29, 2011 10:41 pm

Faust wrote:I have a bad habit of starting and restarting (occasionally several times, for a variety of reasons) games.

A habit I happen to share.

Like a number of people above me, I've also never finished Fallout 3. Simply because I saw a family member beat the game without knowing it was the ending. I find it very hard to get into a game when I already know how it ends-- though I have gotten pretty far.

Also like a few have mentioned, I never got around to beating the Witcher. The second installment looks pretty good, though, and a relative of mine-- whose recommendations have never failed me before-- said that it was a must-play. I've recently started up the original game again; I would hate to run into gaps in the story while playing the second that were already explained in the first.

lschneif · Post by **lschneif** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:23 am

You mean the games I've started but unfinished? Too many... Icewind Dale, Fallout 3, Might & Magic 7, BG and some ones of Castlevania series. Maybe I should finish M&M7 and BG?

GawainBS · Post by **GawainBS** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:35 am

Yes, M&MVII & BG are worth every second.