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Praying this detour doesn't make me late for my 'appointment' with Sundown, I grudgingly follow Gu'dan.

((Going back to the campaign thread since we're done discussing))

OOC: Since it's a discussion between characters I thought to post it here.

Siberys wrote: The night has been going quite slowly for you this evening, Sundown's has a moderate amount of customers but nothing like what it's truly capable of. However, this makes it easy for you, as you don't have too many people to deal with.

Occasionally you have seen some oddballs and ruffians you had to deal with, nothing major though. When push comes to shove, no commoner wants to mess with a nine foot tall horned half minotaur.

The oddest guest you've had though was approximately an hour or so before this large group came out and began discussing things in front of you, hell before they even arrived in fact. You let him in due to his calm, charismatic attitude but were worried his facial features...or lack thereof, would cause trouble.

This man had no face. There were no indentations as to where certain features of his face, like his eyes, mouth and nose should be. His entire facial area is a solid flat plane of skin almost like his face was meant to be that way.

The only thing you heard him say was "Shame to hear about Kitchy, eh?" You simply nodded, pretending to know what he was talking about. Sundown doesn't really keep you in the loop, not to be malicious, but rather he just doesn't care to keep a bouncer in the loop about who's alive and who's dead. It's irrelevant to your job. He waves as he walks in, signaling a half-assed thank you for letting him in the first place.

Now you have this large group of adventurers on the sidewalk. Most of them you recognize, but you do notice a couple of them who came out of the building, you did not let in. The pixie faced girl, and the pale loopy sounding girl.

Nordak spits in disgust feeling more and more uncomfortable with being a simple doorman. While the opportunity to meet new figures is certainly entertaining for a while, this can suddenly change with the repetition.

There are figures that are certainly memorable and Nordak thoughts go to the dwarf the he saw earlier. For some reason he suddenly had a feeling of thirst that only a barrel of ale could temper. Still, there are figures or lack of there is that are certainly more puzzling than anything else. How can someone have no mouth and still talk?! That is unheard of! And who the hell is Kitchy? Not that it matters anyway ...

Nordak thoughts continue to wander away while he was leaning against the wall. This job surely helps a lot with meditation, thankfully he doesn't have any use for it. He suddenly comes back to reality as the door almost slapped him over, while this colorful group was talking in the middle of the street. "I'll be damned, this tavern must have more holes than a Swiss cheese", whispers Nordak to himself while coming closer to them. Shaking his horns slightly amused he goes on,

Knock, knock! How many entrances this damn cottage has because surely you didn't used the one I know of? I would also ask you what are you searching for so desperately?

I'd like to address something to the group about the way the game is going, and it's partly my fault too likely because of the way I communicate some things, be they subtle or detailed.

When I started the game, I did specifically say the party needs to get along. This meant that you need to be able be nice to each other despite alignment but it also meant there needs to be a party to begin with and at the beginning of the game, I set up several scenarios where Characters can get to know each other right off the bat. Now, while I realize getting to know each other and forming a party are two entirely different goals and the latter is not going to happen instantly, I also have given six interlocking stories to go from that will lead you into the game.

For reference, and these are not spoilers, this should have been common knowledge at this point (and if it isn't this is MY fault, not yours, but mine for not communicating it properly)-

~The hatch is the most obvious thing to investigate, as it's a private no-go zone for sundown.

~The Midnight Owl is a key character and the only current lead to find him is the Old Warlock, who is in fact NOT the midnight owl.

~The faceless bartender is not an employed bartender and shouldn't be working at the nightclub (otherwise Nordak and Jeronis would have known him and his highly distinguishable [lack of] face).

~Kitchy is missing and presumed dead but no substantial evidence was found until Shile's run in with the Kitchy Zombie. Technically, Nordak could have known who kitchy was if he wanted to, but since he chose not to, I simply described him as "that other guy you've seen working here before."

~Sundown himself has many dark secrets and even powers that give him hold over the entire territory.

~And the Spice Venom is a highly poisonous drug being distributed in a supposedly lawful town.


These are the six "quests" I've come up with for players to go off of, and they all lead into each other (meaning whichever lead you find most interesting you had free will to go with).

Unfortunately, what I see are two characters, maybe three trying to investigate something related to either of those six leads. I've seen some characters already start to sever ties (i.e. be rude to them, dismiss them, avoid them, etc etc) to others, making it harder for them to want to get together as a party.

I want to know what I can do to make the game and the party a little more cohesive, maybe I need to make the plotlines a little more obvious or maybe I need to make them a little more interesting. But I need you guys to let me know and try and work towards getting to the actual story of the game, and I need you guys to talk to each other as much as you do me in the game (several times various characters asked the rest of the party a question and it was almost entirely ignored. Questions have been ignored by everyone, not just a select few).

So I'm asking you, what do you think I need to do to get the party together at this point?

Siberys, maybe I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed but I didn't get a lot of the things...

"~The Midnight Owl is a key character and the only current lead to find him is the Old Warlock, who is in fact NOT the midnight owl."




I understood this, but we as characters are going in a lot of different motives. Shile is interested in the hatch. Sinead is interested in getting her problem with the shades taken care of and Allexa is just chilling having a drink with Sinead. Nordak doesn't really have anything to do other than wonder where he can get a better job than bouncer.

Eventually I would see Gu Dan talking to Allexa (who got info from the faceless) and my character and put two and two together and I guess Nordak and Sinead and Shile might go along to have something interesting to do. Same goes for my character. What motive does he have to investigate the midnight warlock?




~The faceless bartender is not an employed bartender and shouldn't be working at the nightclub (otherwise Nordak and Jeronis would have known him and his highly distinguishable [lack of] face).

I didn't understand this. I thought he was employed? How big is this bar that a guy can just walk in and start serving drinks? Shouldn't I have known that he didn't belong? Did I miss some text?




~Kitchy is missing and presumed dead but no substantial evidence was found until Shile's run in with the Kitchy Zombie. Technically, Nordak could have known who kitchy was if he wanted to, but since he chose not to, I simply described him as "that other guy you've seen working here before."

I didn't understand this. My character just figured sundown killed kitchy due to like mob violence. I didn't realize the zombie Shile fought was Kitchy, I thought it was just a 'wandering monster' encounter with a random zombie. I think I missed some text.




~Sundown himself has many dark secrets and even powers that give him hold over the entire territory.

I kind of understood but thought it was metagaming. My character doesn't see a buble above shile saying 'will save suceed'. I don't know how I would know this other than from some info from my background?

But what would my motive be to investigate this? If I am working for sundown in the first place? I think there needs to be some kind of motive to make sundown my adversary if he is going to be our nemesis somehow.

Theres some stuff in my background. He could have harmed some of my family or killed Sira Megav? Basicly my character wouldn't want to work at sundowns because he wants to traffic contraband from other locations as a wilderness guide. Contraband which is not manufactured within Rhodes?





~And the Spice Venom is a highly poisonous drug being distributed in a supposedly lawful town.

I understood this, kinda. Is it a drug or a poison? Do you kill people with it or get high? If its the latter I am a smuggler so I would want to profit from it right? Although my character is chaotic good he believes its a life choice to use drugs or not.


As far as what can be done? I think you have made a VERY interesting story, but it is a problem seeing how we can form together. I have been telling my dad about the atmosphere and the other party members at our weekly coffee meeting, so I really enjoy this campaign so far.

In my opinion the problem is motivations of the characters. Me and Nordak are mostly 9 to 5 ers with loyalty to sundown. Either we quit are jobs, but still there is no motivation other than find a different business. And then what happens? We wouldn't ever see the other four again unless the DM makes it happen? I would actually oppose Shile because I fear Sundown more than the shadow masters. Where would I be if I side with Shile? I'd have a death warrant on me if sundown found out. Even if Shile gave me one half the treasure it would still be a very risky business. If I were to steal, then why wouldn't I just screw Shile and take it all for myself? The ones looking for the midnight owl can get together but they would have to motivate my character to come with them perhaps the midnight owl can benefit me somehow or perhaps I am in debt to their characters? For Sinead I would be motivated to help someone deal with the shades because that is my business and I can always use a friend.

As far as hostility, my character doesn't feel any hostility. He is on the same team as Nordak, though not particularly a friend. He is amused by Shile but he's not going to cross the mob king just because some kooky lady was told something by some shadow wizards or whatever. He was curious about the other three but they all ran off.

"~The Midnight Owl is a key character and the only current lead to find him is the Old Warlock, who is in fact NOT the midnight owl."

I understood this, but we as characters are going in a lot of different motives. Shile is interested in the hatch. Sinead is interested in getting her problem with the shades taken care of and Allexa is just chilling having a drink with Sinead. Nordak doesn't really have anything to do other than wonder where he can get a better job than bouncer.

Eventually I would see Gu Dan talking to Allexa (who got info from the faceless) and my character and put two and two together and I guess Nordak and Sinead and Shile might go along to have something interesting to do. Same goes for my character. What motive does he have to investigate the midnight warlock?

*sigh* ok, you say a lot about "missing some text" in the posts and stuff and this is a clear example of why.

I don't know how I could have made it clearer that Midnight Owl and Old Warlock are NOT one in the same person, they are two separate people in the game and you still managed to combine them.

Either English isn't your first language or your skimming posts. If it's either, this is exactly why you're getting misinformation.

~The faceless bartender is not an employed bartender and shouldn't be working at the nightclub (otherwise Nordak and Jeronis would have known him and his highly distinguishable [lack of] face).

I didn't understand this. I thought he was employed? How big is this bar that a guy can just walk in and start serving drinks? Shouldn't I have known that he didn't belong? Did I miss some text?

This one was less obvious, I admit. I did give indication to Nordak that he was a complete stranger, so I'll give people this one that it wasn't obvious. However, it also wasn't meant to be too obvious.

The clues that he's not a bartender are that Nordak did not know him (and I as a DM did not correct nordak in knowing him in any way because of this), AND he has yet to charge any of the characters who've sat down with him money for the drinks he's given them.

~Kitchy is missing and presumed dead but no substantial evidence was found until Shile's run in with the Kitchy Zombie. Technically, Nordak could have known who kitchy was if he wanted to, but since he chose not to, I simply described him as "that other guy you've seen working here before."

I didn't understand this. My character just figured sundown killed kitchy due to like mob violence. I didn't realize the zombie Shile fought was Kitchy, I thought it was just a 'wandering monster' encounter with a random zombie. I think I missed some text.

The voice behind the zombie chanted "Kitchy kitchy coo" a couple of times. This should have been nail-on-the-head obvious.

~Sundown himself has many dark secrets and even powers that give him hold over the entire territory.

I kind of understood but thought it was metagaming. My character doesn't see a buble above shile saying 'will save suceed'. I don't know how I would know this other than from some info from my background?

No, it's not metagaming to feel a magical effect penetrate you and try to take you over. Remember, most magic is tangible in the game. Aside from a select few exceptions, "Dominate Person" is something you can feel happen. It was also in the form of a gaze attack at that.

But what would my motive be to investigate this? If I am working for sundown in the first place? I think there needs to be some kind of motive to make sundown my adversary if he is going to be our nemesis somehow.

Investigate doesn't mean you are going for or against him. It simply means finding out what's going on.

Here's an example-

To get into the hatch, one of two obvious ways is to either
A- Get in good with Sundown and convince him to show you (Pro Sundown)
B- Sneak by Sundown, bust the lock and get inside yourself (Anti Sundown)

finding out this information isn't inherently good or evil, it's what you choose to do with it or how you go about it that defines the morality of it.

~And the Spice Venom is a highly poisonous drug being distributed in a supposedly lawful town.

I understood this, kinda. Is it a drug or a poison? Do you kill people with it or get high? If its the latter I am a smuggler so I would want to profit from it right? Although my character is chaotic good he believes its a life choice to use drugs or not.

Drugs are usually both poisonous and narcotic. There are varying degrees of it, there are the kinds that mess you up in the head and body and there are the kinds that kill you. This is the kind that will likely kill you.

Considering it's made from various spices, scorpion venom, it glows on its own, and it's injected directly into the eyeball should indicate this is a highly abnormal drug for a medieval time-period.

In my opinion the problem is motivations of the characters. Me and Nordak are mostly 9 to 5 ers with loyalty to sundown.

This is incorrect, you are the only one loyal to Sundown in any way. Nordak just works for the guy, he's made it perfectly clear he doesn't care for sundown's company at all.

Either we quit are jobs, but still there is no motivation other than find a different business. And then what happens? We wouldn't ever see the other four again unless the DM makes it happen? I would actually oppose Shile because I fear Sundown more than the shadow masters. Where would I be if I side with Shile? I'd have a death warrant on me if sundown found out. Even if Shile gave me one half the treasure it would still be a very risky business. If I were to steal, then why wouldn't I just screw Shile and take it all for myself?

This is a difficult way of thinking, and I'd like to point out one major thing again.

I required, as a DM, that all players get together and get along. This means that if you built a character that is actually meant to side with everyone but other characters, you built it against my rules.

I have no problem with you building a character who smuggles black market stuff and deals with contraband, it makes for an interesting character. But that doesn't excuse you from finding a way to make the party interactions work.

I'm not saying it has to work right off the bat but if your character is the type to outright refuse to get involved with any other player character, then this is against the rule I've created and you need to rethink your character's backstory and position.

The ones looking for the midnight owl can get together but they would have to motivate my character to come with them perhaps the midnight owl can benefit me somehow or perhaps I am in debt to their characters?

This I can deal with, but remember, it also means that if you're given an opportunity that can benefit your character, you need to consider it and not dismiss it.

Case in point, I presented you with a scenario that Sundown is a terrible, cruel boss that made you deliver highly illegal punishable-by-death substances to a complete lunatic. Is this someone you want to work for? It's masochistic in nature to even remotely try and make that work, and doesn't make a lot of sense.

I presented him as a dick to you for the very reason that you might actually consider going against him. He has powers, and he has influence, but considering his run-in with nero, you know for a fact that he's mortal.

As far as hostility, my character doesn't feel any hostility. He is on the same team as Nordak, though not particularly a friend. He is amused by Shile but he's not going to cross the mob king just because some kooky lady was told something by some shadow wizards or whatever. He was curious about the other three but they all ran off.

no one said you had to. Does that mean you can't give it some thought at all? Here you have a girl that snuck past a 9 foot tall minotaur with an axe you know could clearly cut her in half, snuck up on you, a rogue with a fairly decent spot check, and came directly to a hatch you know is forbidden that strange creatures told her to investigate, and considering this girl knows NOTHING about this bar or Sundown or this hatch, you don't find it interesting that she knew exactly where to find it?

If I blindfolded myself, walked through a highly unstable cave system, and in the middle of my walk I unblindfolded myself and found a winning lottery ticket for a billion dollars, is your character so cynical that he would pass it off as coincidence or would he think that a higher power lead me to it. And remember, I'm not talking about god, I'm talking about Titans that rule the entire world that you can literally go see and touch and be killed by in person.

This is a difficult way of thinking, and I'd like to point out one major thing again.

I required, as a DM, that all players get together and get along. This means that if you built a character that is actually meant to side with everyone but other characters, you built it against my rules.

I have no problem with you building a character who smuggles black market stuff and deals with contraband, it makes for an interesting character. But that doesn't excuse you from finding a way to make the party interactions work.

I'm not saying it has to work right off the bat but if your character is the type to outright refuse to get involved with any other player character, then this is against the rule I've created and you need to rethink your character's backstory and position.

Yeah thats basicly my whole point. I just built the character saying he was a smuggler. And the story was that I was an employee of sundown. The logic of what you are saying is that because a lady walks up to me and says she wants to look in the basement that I would switch sides. How would I be aware that she had snuck by anyone? From what I could tell from the text she didn't materialize in front of me. I didn't think anything odd happened I just thought some odd lady walked up to me. And then the way she was acted out she sounded bat**** crazy like Luna from Harry Potter. I don't mind teaming up with her at all. I could care less about sundown, I was just trying to think logically.


Case in point, I presented you with a scenario that Sundown is a terrible, cruel boss that made you deliver highly illegal punishable-by-death substances to a complete lunatic. Is this someone you want to work for? It's masochistic in nature to even remotely try and make that work, and doesn't make a lot of sense.

I presented him as a dick to you for the very reason that you might actually consider going against him. He has powers, and he has influence, but considering his run-in with nero, you know for a fact that he's mortal.

Again I didn't realize he was a dick. Being a criminal is probably not a very good life. He did give me 3 platinum or 30 gold for one half hour of work. If my character is set up as a drug mule I need some kind of cue to know that it makes sense to help a random kooky lady cross him. I mean if he is such a dick and has all these mystical powers either: A) why would I work for him in the first place ie why not just tell Shile to have at it and turn in my resignation or B) knowing that he is just a dick wouldn't that be all the more reason not to make him an adversary?

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"As far as hostility, my character doesn't feel any hostility. He is on the same team as Nordak, though not particularly a friend. He is amused by Shile but he's not going to cross the mob king just because some kooky lady was told something by some shadow wizards or whatever. He was curious about the other three but they all ran off."

no one said you had to. Does that mean you can't give it some thought at all?

had to what? Give what thought? I didn't understand this?

Here you have a girl that snuck past a 9 foot tall minotaur with an axe you know could clearly cut her in half, snuck up on you, a rogue with a fairly decent spot check, and came directly to a hatch you know is forbidden that strange creatures told her to investigate, and considering this girl knows NOTHING about this bar or Sundown or this hatch, you don't find it interesting that she knew exactly where to find it?

I thought she just walked in the bar which is a public place. I didn't realize there was anything mystical about what happened. I thought she just walked up to me. Sorry.

If I blindfolded myself, walked through a highly unstable cave system, and in the middle of my walk I unblindfolded myself and found a winning lottery ticket for a billion dollars, is your character so cynical that he would pass it off as coincidence or would he think that a higher power lead me to it. And remember, I'm not talking about god, I'm talking about Titans that rule the entire world that you can literally go see and touch and be killed by in person.

You've got a point that my behaviour isn't good for a phantasy setting where it is possible to have shadow lords. I was just playing it as if Shile flipped her wig. I guess I should have asked her who the shadow lords were and if I could meet them or something. Sorry about that I will try to adjust.

I would need to have reason to believe that the shadow lords would offer me better treatment than sundown. The only worse thing than having a friend like sundown is having an even worse friend on top of sundown as an enemy.

I think this would all be more clear if we were in the same room together. Playing with post every other day is not as direct a communication. If it was real local game I would be acclimated more rapidly to your vision of the game much easier. Sorry it has been quite difficult!

I also reason that there would be plenty of people like televangelists (no offense anyone) who just profit off the titans. Probably everyone and their brother is claiming to be a favorite of Skia.

Yeah thats basicly my whole point. I just built the character saying he was a smuggler. And the story was that I was an employee of sundown. The logic of what you are saying is that because a lady walks up to me and says she wants to look in the basement that I would switch sides. How would I be aware that she had snuck by anyone? From what I could tell from the text she didn't materialize in front of me. I didn't think anything odd happened I just thought some odd lady walked up to me. And then the way she was acted out she sounded bat**** crazy like Luna from Harry Potter. I don't mind teaming up with her at all. I could care less about sundown, I was just trying to think logically.

Again, you've completely missed the point.

How do you not get that investigating the hatch is something that can be both FOR and AGAINST Sundown. And I didn't say you had to choose Shile over sundown immediately.

All I said was some crazy girl whom you've never met somehow found her way into the back area of the kitchen, pointed at the hatch, and said there was something weird in it.

You've never been into the hatch, Sundown tells you to stay away from it all the time. Now a strange girl wants to get into the hatch that you DO know sundown doesn't know, and you don't find it suspicious at all? I'm not asking you to investigate, I'm not asking you to cross sundown, I'm not asking -anything- like that so please get that idea out of your head now.

You really need to read closely at what I'm writing, you seem to misquote me quite frequently.

Again I didn't realize he was a dick. Being a criminal is probably not a very good life. He did give me 3 platinum or 30 gold for one half hour of work. If my character is set up as a drug mule I need some kind of cue to know that it makes sense to help a random kooky lady cross him. I mean if he is such a dick and has all these mystical powers either: A) why would I work for him in the first place ie why not just tell Shile to have at it and turn in my resignation or B) knowing that he is just a dick wouldn't that be all the more reason not to make him an adversary?

Maybe it's all you could find or maybe it's mostly been okay work up until now and while you knew Sundown was a dick he wasn't a dick to you. It was up to you to formulate your reasons behind what your character thinks, not me.

had to what? Give what thought? I didn't understand this?

Had to cross sundown.

I thought she just walked in the bar which is a public place. I didn't realize there was anything mystical about what happened. I thought she just walked up to me. Sorry.

No, a business is a private space, not a public one. And a bar with a bouncer is even more private than normal.

Plus, you were in the kitchen, you saw no one there with you, you grabbed the narcotics, and then you DID see someone with you. That's as close as you can get to the definition of sneaking up on someone.

You've got a point that my behaviour isn't good for a phantasy setting where it is possible to have shadow lords. I was just playing it as if Shile flipped her wig. I guess I should have asked her who the shadow lords were and if I could meet them or something. Sorry about that I will try to adjust.

That's not the point either.

I'm not trying to dictate what exactly your character does in the game or how you play it, that's not my place.

My one and only major rule to the game was about party cohesion. You have to be able to get together and get along with the party. You can create whatever character you want and formulate whatever reason you want to be adventuring with these guys, but you HAVE to adventure with them.

I would need to have reason to believe that the shadow lords would offer me better treatment than sundown. The only worse thing than having a friend like sundown is having an even worse friend on top of sundown as an enemy.

you don't know who or what the shadow lords are, and have no reason to join them.

As you said, it is entirely logical to believe this girl is delusional, that's fine. But that doesn't take away from the suspicion. A delusional girl wandering the streets chanting gibberish at no one is something to dismiss. A delusional girl wandering into a shady nightclub and leading herself directly to something forbidden, that she says she's never seen and doesn't know what's inside but that strange people in her head lead her to it, and you DO know it's significant to sundown, this is suspicious at the very least, not something you should pass off. You can, I am not going to impose that you can't as a DM, but you shouldn't.

I think this would all be more clear if we were in the same room together. Playing with post every other day is not as direct a communication. If it was real local game I would be acclimated more rapidly to your vision of the game much easier. Sorry it has been quite difficult!

Then play by post is probably not for you. This is a very tedious, time consuming and most importantly SLOW way to play the game. You need to have a decent memory or a really damn good attention span to keep re-reading posts for information over and over again to enjoy this style of play.

I certainly don't want to boot you from the game, I actually do like your character, but you do need to think of how you're going to play him and if you can muster it all.

I also reason that there would be plenty of people like televangelists (no offense anyone) who just profit off the titans. Probably everyone and their brother is claiming to be a favorite of Skia.

Thousands of years after the titans took over the world, sure, why not.

A couple hundred years though? No. Remember, the take over of the titans wasn't just "The gods died and they took their place" or something. It was a full blown, hellfire apocalypse. Millions of innocent people died for no reason, crops died out starving people, hell one titan outright killed a bunch of people for attrition purposes.

The world is a literal hellscape right now, everything is in ruin and there is only one city in the entire world and it's barely functioning.


So remember, this isn't your happy-go-lucky medieval setting with princesses and knights and powerful wizards running a wizardry school and so on. This is a "You're lucky to live past the age of 25" war-torn, earth shattered nearly toxic continent setting.

Again, you've completely missed the point.

How do you not get that investigating the hatch is something that can be both FOR and AGAINST Sundown. And I didn't say you had to choose Shile over sundown immediately.

All I said was some crazy girl whom you've never met somehow found her way into the back area of the kitchen, pointed at the hatch, and said there was something weird in it.

You've never been into the hatch, Sundown tells you to stay away from it all the time. Now a strange girl wants to get into the hatch that you DO know sundown doesn't know, and you don't find it suspicious at all? I'm not asking you to investigate, I'm not asking you to cross sundown, I'm not asking -anything- like that so please get that idea out of your head now.

You really need to read closely at what I'm writing, you seem to misquote me quite frequently.

I apologize for misunderstanding you (misquoting?). I am not doing it deliberately. I didn't understand this was a special secret hatch. I just thought it had some valuables in it or something. Like loaded with scorpion venom or something. I can see what you are saying but I'm just not getting my cues right.

If Shile returns I'll ask her about her shadow masters.

Maybe it's all you could find or maybe it's mostly been okay work up until now and while you knew Sundown was a dick he wasn't a dick to you. It was up to you to formulate your reasons behind what your character thinks, not me.

Got you. I had assumed this was the first time I handled the drug run until kitchy died. I did assume I had done some of smuggling of the drug in my business. I thought it odd about the warlock, but I was more like thinking oh crap wtf am I gotten into?

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had to what? Give what thought? I didn't understand this?

Had to cross sundown.

Ok got it.


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You've got a point that my behaviour isn't good for a phantasy setting where it is possible to have shadow lords. I was just playing it as if Shile flipped her wig. I guess I should have asked her who the shadow lords were and if I could meet them or something. Sorry about that I will try to adjust.
That's not the point either.

I'm not trying to dictate what exactly your character does in the game or how you play it, that's not my place.

My one and only major rule to the game was about party cohesion. You have to be able to get together and get along with the party. You can create whatever character you want and formulate whatever reason you want to be adventuring with these guys, but you HAVE to adventure with them.

Ok got you.. So I need to somehow make a device to work with Shile and the others and join teams. I think maybe I will ask more about the shadow masters and try to think of a reason to work for them instead of sundown.

Or I could arrange a meeting between Shile and sundown discuss whats in the hatch? I think I tried that actually and he used his dominate power to banish her? Maybe we need to entice him?

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I would need to have reason to believe that the shadow lords would offer me better treatment than sundown. The only worse thing than having a friend like sundown is having an even worse friend on top of sundown as an enemy.
you don't know who or what the shadow lords are, and have no reason to join them.

As you said, it is entirely logical to believe this girl is delusional, that's fine. But that doesn't take away from the suspicion. A delusional girl wandering the streets chanting gibberish at no one is something to dismiss. A delusional girl wandering into a shady nightclub and leading herself directly to something forbidden, that she says she's never seen and doesn't know what's inside but that strange people in her head lead her to it, and you DO know it's significant to sundown, this is suspicious at the very least, not something you should pass off. You can, I am not going to impose that you can't as a DM, but you shouldn't."

Ok got you. I wasn't putting together the information that sundown had forbidden this. Which indicates it is special. Putting that together with the circumstance. I am reading the text I swear. I apologize.



Quote:
I think this would all be more clear if we were in the same room together. Playing with post every other day is not as direct a communication. If it was real local game I would be acclimated more rapidly to your vision of the game much easier. Sorry it has been quite difficult!

Then play by post is probably not for you. This is a very tedious, time consuming and most importantly SLOW way to play the game. You need to have a decent memory or a really damn good attention span to keep re-reading posts for information over and over again to enjoy this style of play.

I certainly don't want to boot you from the game, I actually do like your character, but you do need to think of how you're going to play him and if you can muster it all.

I am quite enjoying this. I'm willing to continue trying it out and seeing if I can improve. It may be a good start to ask Shile about the shadow masters. I already have an affection for her as a Luna sort of endearing featherhead. I will see she is wounded and try to help her.

Quote:
I also reason that there would be plenty of people like televangelists (no offense anyone) who just profit off the titans. Probably everyone and their brother is claiming to be a favorite of Skia.
Thousands of years after the titans took over the world, sure, why not.

A couple hundred years though? No. Remember, the take over of the titans wasn't just "The gods died and they took their place" or something. It was a full blown, hellfire apocalypse. Millions of innocent people died for no reason, crops died out starving people, hell one titan outright killed a bunch of people for attrition purposes.

The world is a literal hellscape right now, everything is in ruin and there is only one city in the entire world and it's barely functioning.


So remember, this isn't your happy-go-lucky medieval setting with princesses and knights and powerful wizards running a wizardry school and so on. This is a "You're lucky to live past the age of 25" war-torn, earth shattered nearly toxic continent setting.

I didn't see the logic of this? Are you saying the Titans investigate when people claim falsely authority based on favor of each titan? I can see someone wouldn't want to piss off a titan. Is that what you are saying?
__________________
Listen up maggots, Mr. Popo's 'bout to teach you the pecking order.
It goes you, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo.

I have to apologize myself to the DM. I missed some things too and I can only blame my fear for metagaming. I was trying to work strictly with the bits of information I had and I didn't realize that I actually knew much more. I also admit that English is not my first language though I think I am doing fine and this online campaigns are the only one I ever played so I am not quite used with the style yet. I will try to make up for it, but if I seem to overlook something or act in a strange way I ask that Siberys quickly send me a private message to sort the thing down.

So I suggest the following:
1. Let's work more together. Simply dismissing the presence of others just because you believe your character should act that way isn't going to help in the long run. We're supposed to form a team and yet after so many days we're unable to. So let's get our act together a bit.
2. If the DM notices we're looking lost maybe some private messages or a post in character discussion thread to clear some things up would help a lot. I would also suggest (though this might be too much work for the DM, but might avoid confussion) to make another thread that would simply be a summary of what happened (like what different characters know, what things everyone know etc.). That would help when we look clueless. Instead of waiting for us to get on the track we would simply re-read the summary in search for more clues. On a side note we could do this ourselves and the DM could check if we actually understood what is going on. I believe this would help all of us.
3. Patience and understanding! We're all fairly new to this (play by post), except maybe a few. I know that myself, Ellie, Annette and Claudius are. Even if they have experience playing face to face, this is very different as many already suggested.

I actually enjoy all a lot and I hope we can get over this small incident. Let's make it work!

@ All -

I think the issue can be broken down to adjustment on behalf of those of us who are newer to play by post. I currently am in 5 play by post campaigns by choice so I could learn quicker about the ways to play in the slower format to better perform for this campaign, as I personally like all of the characters and the people behind them are all good people.

We will succeed at bringing a party together, I think after these recent posts we all see the point and I won't deny I missed alot of the hints thrown out there and it is very hard not to metagame in a play by post campaign.

I think now that bar is somewhat clear, Nordak is now at the bar and not guarding the door, once we can get everyone in the bar and begin to talk AS a group, we can actually think about forming one for a common task.

It's been laid out there are 6 basic quest lines Siberys laid out for us, once we agree to whatever terms may come up when we all sit down together there should be a short debate about which quest line to follow, My character, personally is obviously going to want to find the Midnight Owl, as it was the quest specifically given to him, however, there are other quests, that may lead him TO the Midnight Owl and will be willing to follow any other quest line.

I believe that if we all look at our intro's and the info given to your characters thusfar you will see that there is a set purpose in front of you, but consider the alternatives to getting there rather than thinking of it as the only path.

In closing, thank you Siberys for putting in the fantastic work for this campaign and please continue to do so, I know we all appreciate it.

Lets get everyone in one place and get the campaign started

@Claudius

I didn't see the logic of this? Are you saying the Titans investigate when people claim falsely authority based on favor of each titan? I can see someone wouldn't want to piss off a titan. Is that what you are saying?

More like the idea of someone profiting off the existence of a titan (Re: Televangelists as you compared) don't exist at all yet because it hasn't become a thought process. People fear the titans not because they're like gods and all powerful, but because most people alive today have actually seen a titan with their own eyes and seen the destruction they can impose.

@Mal-

I have to apologize myself to the DM. I missed some things too and I can only blame my fear for metagaming. I was trying to work strictly with the bits of information I had and I didn't realize that I actually knew much more. I also admit that English is not my first language though I think I am doing fine and this online campaigns are the only one I ever played so I am not quite used with the style yet. I will try to make up for it, but if I seem to overlook something or act in a strange way I ask that Siberys quickly send me a private message to sort the thing down.

In reality, you and your character have yet to act strangely in the game. Every non player to player scenario I've given you, you've acted in some manner that I'd actually expect, so no worries there.

1. Let's work more together. Simply dismissing the presence of others just because you believe your character should act that way isn't going to help in the long run. We're supposed to form a team and yet after so many days we're unable to.

This is exactly what I mean, thank you.

2. If the DM notices we're looking lost maybe some private messages or a post in character discussion thread to clear some things up would help a lot. I would also suggest (though this might be too much work for the DM, but might avoid confussion) to make another thread that would simply be a summary of what happened (like what different characters know, what things everyone know etc.). That would help when we look clueless. Instead of waiting for us to get on the track we would simply re-read the summary in search for more clues. On a side note we could do this ourselves and the DM could check if we actually understood what is going on. I believe this would help all of us.

Every now and then I'll provide some more obvious clues to the game when things aren't progressing because of a lack of information or something.

The zombie attack was an example of that. I gave six clues for Shile to go off of, she chose to wander the streets aimlessly, so I had her run into Kitchy who is now a zombie, giving her a much more tangible pile of information to work with.

3. Patience and understanding! We're all fairly new to this (play by post), except maybe a few. I know that myself, Ellie, Annette and Claudius are. Even if they have experience playing face to face, this is very different as many already suggested.

Very true, and I do want to apologize if I'm being offensive to anyone in the way I post.

It can be frustrating, not just as a player but as a DM to deal with play-by-post and when the party isn't even together let alone going after the actual plotline, it's VERY difficult to get them back on the right track.


@Treblin-

It's been laid out there are 6 basic quest lines Siberys laid out for us, once we agree to whatever terms may come up when we all sit down together there should be a short debate about which quest line to follow, My character, personally is obviously going to want to find the Midnight Owl, as it was the quest specifically given to him, however, there are other quests, that may lead him TO the Midnight Owl and will be willing to follow any other quest line.

Do remember that as all six plotlines are interlocking, this means that you are welcome to, as a party or an individual character, go off into any one of those.

I.e. there are six characters and six plots. One character could go for each plot, two could go for three plots, three could go after 2, or all six of you can go after one.

I'd like to make the game as open ended as I could, so that's why I created this sort of six way plotline that will eventually lead into each other.

I believe that if we all look at our intro's and the info given to your characters thusfar you will see that there is a set purpose in front of you, but consider the alternatives to getting there rather than thinking of it as the only path.

Exactly.

The most obvious plotline is the hatch, and getting inside. But because it's the most obvious, it's also the most difficult to actually try and accomplish. Shile found this out when confronted by Jeronis and Sundown both as she tried to get inside.

She could try again for the hatch, going about it a different way, or she could go off and do something else entirely.

The timeline looks accurate imo.

Siberys wrote: Just to be sure though-

Sinead is heading into Sundown's room.
Gu'Dan and Allexa are near the stairwell watching out for what happens with Annette.
Jeronis and Shile are heading into the hatch.
Nordak is standing watch just outside the hatch.

Is this correct?

Nordak's position is correct, though he is not standing by the hatch, but by the door of the room in which the hatch is (which if I am right is the kitchen yes?).

I think thats about correct the dialogue outside the bar probably occured while Sinead was traveling to the room. The dialogue with and after the faceless man probably took about 2-3 minutes.

Just so I won't clutter the campaign thread I am posting here some quick questions, hopefully the DM can find some time and answer them (I actually replied myself if I knew the answer, but I would like corrections if needed):

1. Can I switch the Draconic Aura from Presence to Power in the same round I move and attack (e.g., is this a free action)? If I understand correctly this is a move action, so quick answer is no.
2. Can I use a skill (like intimidate) in the same round I move and attack (e.g., is this a free action)? If I understand correctly this is a standard action, so quick answer is no.
3. How about the feat Power Attack - can I keep it always on or I have to tell this before each attack or before combat. When is Power Attack declared? Also for two handed weapons Power Attack trades 1 attack bonus for 2 damage points instead of one, correct? I am not sure about this, but I presume that before each individual attack.
4. One last question or better yet clarification: what happened during the wight encounter? Can you explain a bit please? Did I charged after all? How did the encounter consumed (e.g., I presume it was one of the first 2 scenarios, but which)? I would have liked more tips during your after battle post.

1- Draconic Aura says it's a swift action. Essentially, it's a free action you can do once per round.

2- Intimidate requires 1 minute out of combat and 1 standard action in combat. You can only demoralize an opponent with intimidate during combat, you can't overpower their will.

3- Power attack is something you can declare at the beginning of the round, but it must stay active throughout ALL your attacks.

So, if you get 3 attacks from your base attack bonus being so high, and then during that round an opponent gets an attack of opportunity from you, all 4 of those attacks must be at the declared power attack setting.

You are more than welcome to tell me "Unless stated otherwise, my power attack is always at -2/+2" or something like that.

For light weapons and one handed weapons, it's always -x / +x
For one handed weapons wielded in two hands it's -x / +1.5X
For two handed weapons it's always -x / +2x

4- Essentially, not as much time passed for you as it did for Jeronis and Shile, so you came down as the Wight was created, not as the wight was attacking.

This means that because you saw it created, unlike Jeronis and Shile, you were involved in the surprise round.

As you went first, you charge and nearly rend it in two.
Then Gu'Dan used Turn Undead dealing 4 damage, finishing it off.

BTW: Questions like these normally belong in the campaign info thread, not the player discussion thread.

Player discussion and Game threads are for in game purposes only (and the occasional OOC comment).

Thank you for your explanations and sorry for using the wrong thread. Please feel free to move the post where it is appropriate.

:: as the halfling cradled the lamp oil impromptu malotov cocktail the thought crossed his mind whether this was a sound tactical strategy ::

::This was greeted with puzzlement at first before winding up and tossing:: "You just shot me with death rays and I am going to set ya mutha@#$$^& on fire!"

@Malinzaro-

Just noticed a minor error to your sheet. All your weapons are large sized thanks to your powerful build. So while they are wielded the same, the need to be indicated that they are large by their size category and by their weight, which is approximately double for each.