CHARISMA- Useful???

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Mon Jan 28, 2002 1:00 pm

Charisma < > Beauty

If it did, you'd become less and less charismatic as you grow older. Charisma has to do with strenght of personality, empathy, magnetism, social skills and all that cr@p.

Of course, this is not to say that beauty won't affect the way people feel about you...

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Mon Jan 28, 2002 1:04 pm

There are also Sensate Amulet (+2) and Axe of Hrothgar (+1).

Hmmm ... axe ... Korgan ... guess I gotta beautify my favorite dwarf a little more. Including helm and armor he'd be at 23. Then I give him a sword slot and the blade of roses ... BINGO.

Luther · Post by **Luther** » Mon Jan 28, 2002 1:48 pm

Yeah, the charisma minimum for Paladins is kinda limiting. It makes it hard to roll up a strong fighter, because that's all you'll really be using them for. Even though they are all righteous and good, don't you think some more neutral types would get annoyed? In that case, would charisma really affect them?

I actually managed get str 18/91, dex 18, con 18, wis 13, int 9 and cha 17 for my cavalier without cheating. (I then SK'd my int up to 13 for role-playing, I figured he's smarter than that.

)
So it made for a nice character.

About the ring of human influence, I think it's a pretty cheesy item to get so early in the game and period for that matter. It really does make charisma a joke in the game unless you're a strict role-player. Like everyone says, cha higher that 18 is almost useless. There should be SOME advantage to it. (like getting stuff for free, or extra rep points or something.)

-Luther-

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Mon Jan 28, 2002 2:55 pm

Hmmm, STR (13) is actually the second lowest stat of my current halfling f/t. OK, I admit CHA is the lowest (10), the knowledge about that ring makes it too damn difficult to invest big amounts in CHA.

But since you probably cannot avoid high stats in the long run it's not too important what you start with. The ones I really care about in the beginning are CON and WIS, plus DEX if I play a thief or INT in case of a mage.

Man, this game would be even more fun if some items were randomly created and one could not calculate like "Out of the dungeon, let's see, get this item first and that item second before moving on to the next on the list".

MuDvAyNe0305 · Post by **MuDvAyNe0305** » Mon Jan 28, 2002 3:06 pm

High Charisma Does Matter!

I'm not sure if someone else mentioned this or maybe none of you know this. There are times in the game where it will take your PC's BASE(YES BASE) Charisma to determine certain outcomes. One example that pops into my mind is, to prevent other NPCs from fighting each other.

Let's take Minsc and Edwin for example, They fight, but the game will check your PCs base charisma, if it's high enough(15 I think) then they may just argue, but nothing more will come out of it(No fights to the death, they won't leave because of each other)

Curdis · Post by **Curdis** » Mon Jan 28, 2002 4:22 pm

Originally posted by Silvanerian

<snip>I stated before that int has no purpose to a non-mage, which perhaps isn't entirelly true<snip>
-Sylvanerian

If your intellegence isn't high enough (10 I think) you can't read 'protection from ..' (or other non-mage) scrolls. - Curdis !

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Tue Jan 29, 2002 2:09 am

Every stat has more than ONE use.
That said, who cares 'bout this and 'bout items?
I'll be repetitive, but...
Create your char. Look at the portrait and IMAGINE how
he/she should be.
You think he should be more smarter? Take points from strenght,
or con or dex, and put them to Int.
Or maybe he needs to be more charismatic to be realistic?
Add to Cha. Where's the problem?

Paladins have to "sacrifice" points in cha?!?
Take a pure fighter if you think so. Paladins are servant of
the people and men of honour, THEN warriors.

I've made two PCs for my newest game, one has 18 cha, the other 16. It seemed right to me. When I'll find the ring, I'll sell it, or use it, who cares.
The same for the other stats!
Do not plan!!! You'll reach the end just the same, and you'll
have much more fun.

Create a living char!!!!!
Just try, and see.

On a side note, I now have an all low-strenght party!
Actually the biggest difficulty for me is the weight of items!!!!

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Tue Jan 29, 2002 1:09 pm

Some random observations...

Paladins do not "invest" points in Charisma. Instead, the game re-rolls any Charisma score of 16 or lower. That's why it's so damn easy to get a Paladin (or Ranger, for that matter) with a total roll of 90+. Try getting a Fighter with Paladin-ish stats, and you'll be rolling for two hours.
Wisdom actually has NO use if you cannot cast Limited Wish, Wish or divine spells.

Silvanerian · Post by **Silvanerian** » Tue Jan 29, 2002 1:19 pm

@Littiz: About looking at the character picture, I see your point, but I think that it's mostly only applyable to humans.
Take Haer'Dalis. He has a strengh of 17, but does he look like a person that can bench a minivan? Nah, not in my opinion.
Jaheira also. 15 strengh? That's extraordinarily strong...yeah, right...

I also think it's hard to see if a character is intelligent or not, unless the have a mageportrait, or look like Minsc.
Dwarves don't exactly strike me as very intelligent looking, yet smart dwarves are probably just as common as a smart human...

I usually just imagine what the character really has in every stat, and then pick a picture that roughly matches it.

-Sylvanerian

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Tue Jan 29, 2002 1:45 pm

Right Sylvanerian, the picture cannot tell everything, what I meant
is, just take inspiration!

Damn, when I was a powergamer, I rolled once a total of 92 points, with no tomes yet!
Fighter, no Paladin trick!
An' I'm having more fun now....

Such a waste of time!

Not that important, but I thought Wis helped against Ench/Charm
spells.
The Hold Person description at least says so (in the italian version)
I know, this could not be implemented...

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Tue Jan 29, 2002 3:13 pm

@Xyx: Aren't there some dialogues that are WIS-influenced like (spoiler) talking the spectator beholder in the Sahuagin city into letting one have a look at the chest?

Stilgar · Post by **Stilgar** » Wed Jan 30, 2002 3:04 am

Originally posted by Phantom Lord
@Xyx: Aren't there some dialogues that are WIS-influenced like (spoiler) talking the spectator beholder in the Sahuagin city into letting one have a look at the chest?

If i'm not mistaken that one is wisdom and Charisma influenced!

lompo · Post by **lompo** » Wed Jan 30, 2002 4:15 am

Originally posted by Xyx
[[*]Wisdom actually has NO use if you cannot cast Limited Wish, Wish or divine spells.[/list] [/b]

For what I know, wisdom helps because with more than 16 you get better saving throws (and wilth less than 8 you get worse), so I think that high wisdom would be a bonus for every character!

Pe Ell · Post by **Pe Ell** » Wed Jan 30, 2002 4:18 am

There sure are wisdom influensed dialogues. Don't forget wisdom. It also affects the wish spell effects.

lompo · Post by **lompo** » Wed Jan 30, 2002 5:52 am

Probably for non mage PC intelligence is the abilities one can sacrify with less drawbacks (watch mindflayers!).
But for role playing it's hard to think of an idiot as leader of a party, that maybe include some genius.
Probably Minsc (int.8 low-average), and maybe Jaheira, Anomen, Mazzy and Valigar (int10 average), would accept to share their time with some not very smart guy (int. 5-8?), but below I think that the only companion could be Boo (if you manage to steal it from Minsc).

Aegnor · Post by **Aegnor** » Wed Jan 30, 2002 6:35 am

A word to the wise: according to the manual, wisdom starts conferring a "magical defense bonus" at 15...I believe this modifies some (if not all) saving throws. I tend to max out a character's wisdom ahead of strength but after dex (and con for fighter PC's). Lots of spells and items can improve strength, only a couple for wisdom.

Similarly, charisma imparts a reaction adjustment: a penalty at 7 or lower, and a bonus at 13 or higher. But reputation has similar bonuses and penalties, so a high reputation can conceal the effects of a bad charisma.

Now, i have no idea how often this reaction adjustment affects dialogues with non-party members, but I suspect it does affect at least SOME dialogues. If any of you have also played Planescape: Torment you will know that charisma was fairly important there, but then that game was largely dialogue-driven.

I would be interested in hearing about any experiences out there where extremes in charisma either opened up more dialogue options or took some away...anyone notice anything like this?

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Wed Jan 30, 2002 8:40 am

Torment had some great features concerning INT, WIS and CHA and what was best was that alignment was calculated, not chosen, in PT.

I think high level CHA-effects for BG II would be known if any existed because many people have item-boosted CHA of 21-25.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Thu Jan 31, 2002 6:02 pm

Oops, yeah... Some dialogues use Wisdom. Still, none of them matter more than a little. You can talk the Spectator into leaving you alone, but he doesn't put up much of a fight otherwise anyway.

According to Kevin Dorner, the magical defense adjustment (saving throw bonus) for high Wisdom was not implemented...

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Fri Feb 01, 2002 1:49 am

Again, the magical bonus should be applied ONLY against enchantment/charm spells!
Maybe it IS implemented but it' s difficult to notice!
What do you think?

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Sun Feb 03, 2002 9:35 am

Well, if Kevin Dorner says he asked BioWare and they both figured out that the magical defense adjustment wasn't implemented... I dare believe that.