new kits

axenon42 · Post by **axenon42** » Mon Mar 11, 2002 12:10 pm

Too bad the Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dales -esque games used such a convoluted and flawed game system such a AD&D for a computer game. AD&D (and D&D) is passable as a pen and paper system, but when you combine it with advanced processing speeds it is like a retarded child. They could have SO much more witht the combat in Baldur's Gate, of instance, than pretend to role dice. And the kits are nothing more than straightjackets that force you to play in one particular manner. Fallout's system was better since you could customize your character's advancement. Since Icewind dale is nothing more that a incoherient mess of conflicting rules, this would be the time to scrap it all in favor of something else...

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Tue Mar 12, 2002 10:42 am

Originally posted by EmptyChaos
The only kit I've ever been a fan of has been the Cavalier, though to be a bit more true to the name you should be able to get high mastery "****" in polearms.

Technically untrue, Cavalier's rarely used polearms they used sabres in one hand. The rode fast and came in, cut the enemy and got out. To put a parody they were the Dragoons in the Independence Wars of USA. Knights were the characters who used polearms whilst mounted, they wore full-plate, spurs and had a lance for jousting and the initial charge in a battle.

Notice that in IWD 2 the Cavalier is not able to use polearms such as halberds and spears due to the Cavalier's nature of fighting in the front line.

DraySkullan · Post by **DraySkullan** » Tue Mar 12, 2002 11:26 am

Cavaliers

I don't know alot about the history of the cavalier type, but I do know alot about the 1st edition cavalier class. Basically, it was considered cowardly to use any weapon that allowed you to attack an opponent from a distance, such as any missle weapon or even a polearm since it made your reach so much greater. Lances were allowed, but generally only when facing an opponent with a lance, ie a joust.

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Tue Mar 12, 2002 12:51 pm

Re: Cavaliers

Originally posted by DraySkullan
I don't know alot about the history of the cavalier type, but I do know alot about the 1st edition cavalier class. Basically, it was considered cowardly to use any weapon that allowed you to attack an opponent from a distance, such as any missle weapon or even a polearm since it made your reach so much greater. Lances were allowed, but generally only when facing an opponent with a lance, ie a joust.

Right on the button Dray, that is a Cavalier.

My favourite Kit, I love playing them!

The Stranger · Post by **The Stranger** » Fri Mar 29, 2002 10:05 am

Archer Kit

I am a great fan of the Archer Kit from BG2, I thought it was a great mix of advantages/disadvantages. Now they are watering the kit down to the point that a fighter with grandmastery in bow is better. IMO they may as well scrap this kit and put the Beastmaster back in!

Fighters will always have a better THAC0 due to the xp cap. They will also be able to specialize in other weapons. The Archer (in BG2) was limited to +2 arrows at best, so they had to go into melee at some point. With thier limited melee skills they came out balanced. Now they are being watered down to the point of being useless. Thier cumulative "Called Shot" bonuses are really not that great, and you only get them a couple of times per day. I would rather have the combat bonuses afforded to a straight Fighter.

The Stranger · Post by **The Stranger** » Fri Mar 29, 2002 10:57 am

OOOPS!!!

Forget my last post, I just read about the upgrade, damn I'm dumb! It sounds better than ever now though!

humanflyz · Post by **humanflyz** » Fri Mar 29, 2002 4:49 pm

I think BS removed all kits and just stuck to full 3E multi-classing rules.

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Fri Mar 29, 2002 7:03 pm

Originally posted by humanflyz
I think BS removed all kits and just stuck to full 3E multi-classing rules.

Right you are. At the moment there are neither kits, nor prestige classes in IWDII (which IMHO is much better for balance).

The Stranger · Post by **The Stranger** » Tue Apr 02, 2002 9:49 am

My Kit

I think that I will attempt to make a Rogue that can cast Mage spells and wear studded leather. I would like him to be a more combat oriented kind of guy that a regular Thief though, thier THAC0 is kind of weak and so is a Mage's. Any idea how I could implement this? I have never used the 3E rules for anything. That would be my "Kit".

I'd steal from my mom if she had anything left...

Onyx · Post by **Onyx** » Wed Apr 03, 2002 2:24 am

there is no THACo in 3E rules.
you just have to hit, that all.

The Stranger · Post by **The Stranger** » Wed Apr 03, 2002 8:22 am

No THAC0? What system are they using now? I don't understand! Lord take me back to the 80's! My kingdom for a Basic Dungeons & Dragons Game!

Onyx · Post by **Onyx** » Thu Apr 04, 2002 3:18 am

LOL

Don´t worry man, i too found it hard, but after playing 3E rules for a while, it´s all good. No THAC0, and the armor class now goes up, so AC 18 is better than AC 12. So the only thing you have to worry about is to beat someone AC. He has AC 16 and your attack role is 17, you hit, then role for damag, that´s it.

The Stranger · Post by **The Stranger** » Thu Apr 04, 2002 7:37 am

There's got to be a catch! Nothing is that easy!

Onyx · Post by **Onyx** » Thu Apr 04, 2002 9:18 am

it´s not that easy.
Because it´s easy to get your AC up to 24-25 at low levels.
And i'm sure the will include some pretty tough armors at shields
in the game.
You do know that modifiers apply as (+1) for every +2 over 10
example: So for str=14 you get +2 to attack and damage for melee, or dex=16 you get +3 AC and +3 to attack role for range
weapons.
Also for every (-2) under 10 you get a -1.
So 10 now is a average stat and not a bad one.

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Thu Apr 04, 2002 9:58 am

Simplicity is beauty. Banish THAC0 back to the Abyss where it was forged! Thou shalt torment players and intimidate newbies no longer, vile antiquated game mechanic!

The Stranger · Post by **The Stranger** » Thu Apr 04, 2002 12:33 pm

But THAC0 is your Friend! It has been since 1978! How can you just abandon our little buddy?

Just kidding, actually I am intrigued by the changes, I am going out to buy the 3E books today! I may just be able to make the switch yet!

Onyx · Post by **Onyx** » Fri Apr 05, 2002 3:34 am

Originally posted by The Stranger
But THAC0 is your Friend! It has been since 1978! How can you just abandon our little buddy?

Just kidding, actually I am intrigued by the changes, I am going out to buy the 3E books today! I may just be able to make the switch yet!

That´s what i did. Just go and by the book, you´ll see that the new stuff is really good and easy. Yes, the all new d20 system!!!

The Stranger · Post by **The Stranger** » Fri Apr 05, 2002 9:00 am

I guess since WOTC took over TSR, they actually got someone who knows mathematics to take a look at the rules. I was reading the books last night, and everything makes sooooooooooooooooooooooo Much more sense. They reworked the whole deal instead of just adding new stuff onto the old, like they have been doing for years! I can't wait for IWD2! I want to see what it looks like in practice. On, and another thing:
SWEEEEET!!!

Gruntboy · Post by **Gruntboy** » Fri Apr 05, 2002 9:17 am

I'll add my informed opinion on this matter:

Die, stupid pointless THACO, die!

Although it did rather sound like you were actually hitting someone, in a Batman kind of way.

*THACO!*

Ouch! That hit me in the ear!

DraySkullan · Post by **DraySkullan** » Fri Apr 05, 2002 10:05 am

I always hear people whine about THAC0. What was so complicated about it? It was easy. Some people made it more complicated than it was, using little charts and stuff every time they rolled to hit. It was a pretty simple concept to me, I always did it in my head without even having to think about it.