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The problem with the mage in twisted run not being protected form evil is or I beleive

The staff of the magi doesnt give protection from evil... Or it does but deamons still attack, many a time I have summoned a glabrezu or pit feind and had it come after me whilst I was holding staff of the magi.. this may be a bug? Not sure... they expected the mage would be protected form her fiend by the staff, unfortunatly for her the staff doesnt seem to bother deamons


Kangaxx really is a one trick dog though, almost every monster in the game is.. all things are easy though with hindsight, try taking on firkragg without fire protection spells precast and watch all youre mages / clerics or anyone with less than about 80 hit points litteraly disapear..try taking on mr lich off the bar, no pre buffing spells and see how many ppl make it out

The problem is that if the monsters had more than one trick you would be ****ed... how would you deal with kangaxx if he had true sights time stops peirce magics, mallisons and multiple demi lich howls? If his script was good you probably couldnt beat him, not without having many ppl imprisoned at any rate

Basicly the game is built in such a way as to be finishable..but still whoop your but a few times the first run around so dont compain about it being easy.. couse we all know you got nailed good by kangaxx, firkragg, shadow dragon, bodhi, irenicus on your first go
And after that who cares ?? I mean, does anyone play a single d&d campaign more than once with the same dm?? I doubt it, if your playing for the challenge, try downloading some mods.. going solo, editing monster hp's and removing uber powerfull items ect.. once you have beaten the game on all dificulty lvls it wont get harder on its own......

So are you saying 'Kangaxx is crap, why did the designers have to give their character really powerful spells just to make him challenging?'

I agree with Fable...The first couple of times I tried Kangaxx on level 13(ish) he slaughtered me...absolutely killed me. So I came back one I had time stop, and just stopped time and killed him with a couple of spells and ROTR. He didn't even hit me, but he is fun to play...If you use the right strategy, anything can be easy, but I don't see why using very powerful spells is any more 'noble' and 'acceptable' than just using the cheat keys to kill him really. Except you have to press three buttons instead of two. Fight him powerful. If there are ways to make a particular fight easy, don't moan about it, exploit the 'faults' to make the fight hard....and download the Improved Gaxx.

and download the Improved Gaxx.

I did, and it's getting "funner" already.

but I don't see why using very powerful spells is any more 'noble' and 'acceptable' than just using the cheat keys to kill him really

Hmm maybe because one is cheating and the other isnt?

What does Kangaxx the Demi-Lich, his supposedly much tougher form do?

He cast one spell

Imprisonment.

If you put Korgan Enraged in front of him then he does nothing but sit and wait to die.

Fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ANd, uh, in case you missed it, I use one spell, level 3 cleric spell detect invisibilty =/

My point is that the demi-lich isnt smart. All he is is a mass imprisonment spouting head. There isnt anything intelligent or even cool about his spell selection.

And BECAUSE he only does one thing.....he is incredibly easy to beat. As soon as I realized all he did was shot off imprisonment, well, duh, just use Korgan. Simple as pie. It doesnt take Sherlock Holmes to figure that one out.


Now let me segway into another point. I think there are 2 major problems with SoA battles.

1) They are all you v one powerful guy. Its just to easy to exploit one persons weakness, especially when they are an unintelligent scripted AI. As soon as you identify what the weakness is, and in the case of Kangaxx you do so very quickly, its a simple battle.

Does anyone else think the battle at the top of the Iron Throne (or whatever it was called) in BG1 was tougher then just about all the battles in SoA time after time? I could go back and play that one and still have trouble.

The Twisted Rune could have been a VERY tough battle every time if it werent for 2 design mistakes (no protection of evil for the chick who gates the demon and Shanglar teleporting out of sight range of his friends, meaning you can run away from him). I actually dont run away from Shanglar now because the battles insane that way, though the demon killing the chick still sucks (cant do anything about that I dont think)

2) All the battles are scripted. Now this one they may not be able to do anything about, I wouldnt know. But it seems to me if the enemies were to change their tactics some, not even totally just some, youd see much more difficult battles because you would also have to change your tactics.

Just thoughts

Twisted Rune was easier than Kangaxx 4 me...but I was inexperienced when I first hit him. The rogue stone does hint you with 'the rogue stone is used for the gemjump spell' and I was always on the lookout for an oppurtunity to use it in BG1...forgot about it in BG2..ironic...

Mini

I don't want to argue, so I'll say: it seems as if you're problem is that the opponents act in a way which is predictable and 'scripted' (have you ever tried scripting BTW? - you might like it ). But how come they were predictable? How could you predict their behaviour? I'll bet it's because you'd fought them several times before. I can't imagine that you just guessed that Kangaxx used imprisonment heavily. So why not try beating them first time? and if you can't, don't moan about them being too easy.

PS scripting an NPC to react to every situation differently is impossible, and the particular type of AI needed for Baldur's Gate is especially hard, because of the infinite combinations of events.
Even scripting a believable and smart Hobgoblin warrior is hard, and when you multiply out the options it gets harder by powers. It is like a chess board: Writing a programme to write a chess program on a 4x4 board is extremely easy, but writing a chess program to play on an 8x8 board is (as you know) the hardest programming there is (almost), not just twice as hard.

As for the 'one powerful guy' thing...well..I don't think it's true, so I wont bother arguing

Ironically, I tried to use traps. But they were in the wrong spot

I was always on the lookout for an oppurtunity to use it in BG1...forgot about it in BG2..ironic...

Sorry to spam, but just to let you know that neither of these is situations 'ironic'. 'Annoying' is the word you're looking for.

as the author of the infamous...

trap each spawn point in twisted rune with delay action fireballs via project image trick, I feel its my duty to do the twisted rune every time with my trick...

so improved twisted rune would mean tehy squirm more before they died...

kangaxx, Ive used traps and delay fireballs before to take him down to zip at spawn...works every time...

spawn point monsters are always vulnerable to trickery and cheap tactics...

bwbahahhahahahha

I've said it many times, I'll look repetitive...
But, why don't you just try to roleplay a little, the
battles will be more difficult, but most of all, they'll
be more enjoyable.

An example? Pre-buffing hardly makes sense. In rare situations
the char could expect something, but it's unlikely
that he could cast everytime the RIGHT spell.
Try to imagine the surprise, the hurry in drinking the
first available potion....
(That's why a love so much contingencies....)

And my major advice is, do NOT rest often.
Rest when it makes more sense (you reach a tavern after a
long march..), not in a dungeon with monsters all around.
Especially in heavy-mages parties, this will result in
very unexpected and difficult fights, and I'm not speakin'
about bosses!!!

If you're playing good like me you could decide to spare
your enemie's life now and then, this adds a new level
of challenge.

Anyway. The Improved Twisted Rune should fix the demon problem,
among other things, so you could try out and see.
You're not satisfied? You want a REALLY difficult battle?
No, you want an IMPOSSIBLE battle?!?!?!
Then....
Mod_Spoiler
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Again in the Solaufein Pack. If you have CF, a Kensai/Mage will
come to take it from you. (he's named Kurosian IIRC)
He'll be BATHED in buffing-spells.....
Something similar to my own Kensai/Mage in her FURY_MODE.
Most of all, he has Spell Immunity: Abjuration....
You CAN'T dispel his spells!
Really frustrating... I've known the feel from the other side!!!
I've not encountered him with mine, anyway, it would have
been an interesting battle...
With the party I had (PC paladin) NOTHING worked.
He simply slaughtered them all without a scratch.
At last I managed to hide all the members from his view
(not an easy task, either!), and waited 'till the protections
wore off.
SURPRISE! He had even a load of SCROLLS!!!!!
Anyway, the worst part was passed....

so improved twisted rune would mean tehy squirm more before they died...

oh, I have to say it, User, you're really great

RE:

Well I'll make this simple.

This is a video game composed of set functions and statistics. There isn't a whole lot the computer AI can learn from unless you fiddle with the script. Once you've experienced an encounter once in this game, the challenge is really lost.

Example, took me a while to figure out how to defeat Mae'Var and his goonies on the improved version from the Solamod. Each of his bastards drink potions of invisibility every other round really quick, and their spells were able to punch through my meager party (9-11 levels at the time).

Then I remember the Mind Flayer strategy, heh.

But how come they were predictable? How could you predict their behaviour? I'll bet it's because you'd fought them several times before. I can't imagine that you just guessed that Kangaxx used imprisonment heavily. So why not try beating them first time? and if you can't, don't moan about them being too easy.

No, once again, I point to my previous posts on this very thread

I said more then once it took my 2 reloads the first time I fought him. I beat him on the third try. That is NOT enough replay value for me. Are you telling me that after the first time you faced demi-lich form you didnt figure out "hmmm, if I had someone invulnerable to imprisonment in front of him...."

Edit - Side note to this. Im playing ToB currently, and I think the demon battles on the third level of Watchers Keep are much more fun and challanging then Kangaxx ever was.

Which once youve figured that out, incidentally, makes the battle a joke Wow, we've come full circle once again.

To Littz. I dont want impossible, I want new and different. But you're right, I should really try the mods. I just bought ToB, so once I finish it, I think I will. I dont really want all the flash and pizzazz of 40 new romances and 100 new uber weapons, but mods which change and improve battles/enemy scripting im all about. Thanks for the suggestion.

PS

Sorry to spam, but just to let you know that neither of these is situations 'ironic'. 'Annoying' is the word you're looking for.

Thats the least of the crimes I committ against the English language. Please dont be childish =/

GNGSpam, I see, but the meaning of my post was a little different.
The mods are a nice "bonus", but for themselves are not the KEY to "replaybility".
While roleplaying can be.
An example may help:

I have a strange party, me Cleric(inactive)/Thief, Jaheria, Imoen, Tashia. Just done all the Underwater city, without resting (those fishes could eat me while sleeping you know...), reached the underdark, and was almost completely without spells.
So my thief went on scouting, unseen, thus noticing the drows and the Myconids, but also that there was a Svifn (sp?) accampment ahead...
So it was a matter of doing a last effort, to reach a place where resting could be reasonably safe.
Well, I've managed to avoid the drows, but with the Myconids I've had a really fun battle...
Had to use all that remained... crappy skeletons summoned by Tashia (she's not 15 yet...), as well as her own pet, some other
tricks, but Imoen was confused and wounded (unable to use potions...), and Tashia saved her at the last moment using her LAST thing, a minor sequencer loaded with 2 M.Missile!
The battle was very difficult, but in the end I really enjoyed the
repayment of getting to a safe resting place...

See my point? I'm speakin' of Myconids here!
No bosses or whatever.
Replay-value is not in the single and "famous" battles, but everywhere in the game, as long as you "live" the story and try
to make your interpretation of the situation.
At least, so it's for me.
Since I keep enjoying the game, one of the following is true:

-I'm utterly stupid
-I've truly understood how to play this game
-Both....
.............. choose freely

I understand. I guess im the reverse though, or I have thought of this game in the reverse. To begin with I did nothing but roleplay. That was the reason I bought the game in the first place. And as time has gone on, ive roleplayed less and less and powergamed more and more.

Maybe a back to my roots sort of deal?

thanks anyways

I was such a powergamer my first time through... and didn't even play a romace...
Many players here, even the ones who are a little "bored" like you, in truth love the game so much that they try to find new ways of enjoying it, it was so for me (coming to this forum helped a lot...)

I'm not sayin' that my games are all golden, sometimes I get bored by doing always the same quests, but, playing this way,
now and then I collect new "gems" of fun and satisfying battles,
plus, I'm always forced to try new strategies (with the heavy mage party, without a mage dual, I've no melee capabilities, and for the first time I'm actually using summons...)

Besides, you could do the exact opposite and have fun just the same... see User... (being my anti-personality, it's clear that he enjoys the game as much as me!! )

Anyway, I'm experimenting now the Improved Mindflyers (always in the Sola mod).
Man, they' re tough, and smart!!!
They see invisible char (they "sense" them I assume), if you try to backstab them they immediatly turn around... and they use a wide
range of spells....
I'm scared to going in their lair now....

Success story

Just wanted to share my Kangaax victory with the board. I used a variety of strats offered throughout various posts. I was successful with extreme ease.


Spoiler.............................................................................




















I first set all the traps from Yoshimo (damn his 35% - any way to improve trap laying skills???) in the suggested places. In front of the altar and in the North corner. I took my monk(with holy might), Keldorn(with Fire GIant Strength potion and improved haste and most important the Protection from undead spell) and Yoshimo and planted them where the lich appears. Everyone else made there way to the south corner and just sat there to reap the benefits of the exp points. When lich appeard, I immediately pick his pocket for the extra Ring of Gaax, as or before he turns hostile I hit him with Monk, Keldorn and Yoshimo and the traps all go off bringing him to death or near death. I then hit him with ring of ram and send him to north corner(however, my traps never ever hit him there....either he missed them or dispelled them (is that even possible)) Then sent Keldorn to North corner and everyone else to south corner. Being out of view Kangaax can't attack any of my party except Keldorn who has the undead scroll and therefore he doesn't attack him either. I only hit for 2-7 points of damage per shot(using the +5 sword - don't remember the name), but eventually he crumbled and I was victorious. all too easy with all the suggestions from the board, so I just want to thank everyone for that input. And I get to keep my prot from magic scrolls.

THanks again everyone and I hope my post helps future players as well.

NoBZ

the first time i fouht Kanangaxxx or what ever his name is i got a serious whippen

but i used the ring of ram and traps in the top left corner and a mage with spell imunity and a two handed weapon bloke behind him and deed he was

Btw i beat frickraag and the shadow dragon first time (i am a tactics junkey) because i found out the feeble mind trick straight away

but when i got to the other dragon (in the elf place) it was lower resistance feeble mind ok now he is a lump of meat "go and kill him my troops"

"no keldorn not with the that sword"

dispell magic and i got a ass woopin

To repeat everyone, Battles are alot easier when you know what to do and how the computer will act.... all of them are, so theres no point in whining about how easy they are once youve done them. When i fought kangaxx (level 12) i remember i had huge difficulties getting rid of him since the only weapon i had that could damage him was the Staff of the Magi.... and of course, even with bless, tensers transformation etc etc, my mage was exceedingly crap at hitting the demilich let alone killing him! Korgan's enrage would run out LONG before Kangaxx got to "Injured" status! Then i read around and found out that Wizards Eye was immune to improsonment.... and then i read that Minute meteors damaged him..... and Kangaxx wasnt troublesome anymore! (A variation of the strats to defeat him on this board that i made up, but an effective one).
It was basically Korgan's enrage, Wizards eye and the meteors. I would summon another wizards eye with another mage well before the first one ran out since i didnt know when it would dissappear.
In the end, its just a matter of knowing how to defeat the opponent.

As for the twisted rune..... i still wouldnt know how to effectively deal with it. I kept redoing it (about 5 times) and on the 5th time, i came out EXTREMELY lucky - 2 people in my party died, but by then, everyone had exhausted their spells on the summoned monsters =) It was just hack and slash then.

Try the Improved Kangaxx patch... I think its in Solaufein Mod... or is it?

Anyway I took 3 tries to beat the reinforced Kangaxx and his spells which simply so conveniently slips past the Mystra's rules of memorising your spells...

Try traps for his first form I had 7 traps (i think thats the max) springing off on him and he died before his time stop was over... then I killed the second form with the classic spell immunity and Mace of disruption technique. (i was around level 15 <chapter 3> at that time so my saves were reasonable... or maybe i was plain lucky)

Cheese? Whats wrong with *that*?

The improved mindflayers were immensely difficult on my first try... I got my PC wiped out with brain drain (plus their annoying project force, invis, Ddoor, blah blah abilities). But I tried something else after that (it was the mindflayer base in the sewers) I procured for myself around 50 potions of mind focusing and genius... (Hehehe) then I subsequently raised each party member's intelligence to above 20... then I sent in 5 hacker-and-slashers (5 melee party members ) and decimated them before the flayers could think "Attack the intruders!"

BTW I read in some posts that the flayers had Emotion: Kill. Is there any save penalty for that spell? I didn't think so, as that spell didn't affect any of my party members even once...

I think they should give you these cool abilities when you shapechange into a mindflayer