GameBanshee Forums

@Stilgar -

Well, I might be able to argue my case for a 6-7 Imoen dual-classed to Conjurer. Illusionist is another possibility, since as far as I can tell the only necromancy spells worthy of consideration are Skull Trap and Animate Dead, the former being in many respects less useful than Fireball and the latter only being available if you have ToTSC installed.

Her thieving levels give her an obvious HP advantage plus the ability to use short bows. Her natural 18 dexterity also lends itself well to her cause, since it means Imoen can get to 0 AC with Bracers of AC6 and a Ring of Protection +2, or to -1 AC if she wears the Robe of the Good Archmagi, leaving her free to wear Bracers of Archery or something instead. Granted, Edwin can obtain the same score with a Robe of the Evil Archmagi and the same ring, but he'll need the Gauntlets of Dexterity for the purpose as well, and that means that nobody else in your party can make use of them. Since you're probably running an evil party if you're using Edwin, Kagain comes to mind.

Edwin does have the advantage of that nifty amulet that gives him an extra spell each level, which is really quite handy since the lower level mages available in BG1 don't have all that many spells to begin with. The availability of those four - five in ToTSC - extra spells is quite the useful addition, but it may or may not be overridden by 48 extra hit points, the ability to use short bows, superior armor class, extra versatility (she can cast Magic Missile and disarm all your traps), much better overall stats (Edwin has Constitution and Intelligence but everything else sucks) and a generally much more pleasant demeanor. ^_-

Edwin, of course, was created with a powerhouse mage in mind, which is why they gave him 16 constitution, 18 intelligence, the best school of magic, and an extra spell each level thanks to that amulet of his. They even gave him one of the coolest portraits in the game. They also made all his other stats suck, gave him an awful name - I mean, Edwin? come on - a somewhat grating personality, and an evil alignment that ultimately really doesn't fit with the heroic party the game was basically designed for.

@Ryo

You forget to mention the party composition problem when dualling Imoen. First, you'll need another Mage for the first half of the game. Then you'll need another Thief for the rest of it. Of course, I exaggerate a bit, but I think you get my point.

Oh, I forgot: Edwin has 16 in CON because that is the minimum requirement for a Conjurer.

@Astafas -

Well, you don't really need a mage for the first half of the game at all, but it's nice to have one around. Myself, I use Dynaheir because she comes with Minsc, so I had someone to throw Magic Missiles before Imoen dual-classed and while I was still waiting for her to gain enough levels to be useful.

I think a sixth level Imoen makes a decent enough thief, since by then she should have fairly high scores in Open Locks and Find/Remove Traps... she can also wear Boots of Stealth for a tidy 35% boost if you feel the need. Plenty of people use Coran or a PC Fighter/Thief anyway, so they don't have to worry about reorganizing their party just so they can pick locks and remove traps.

But if we're talking about final results, downtime isn't really an issue, is it? I'm sure the people that use Fighter-Mage duals (or whatever) in BG2 are more concerned with the killing machine that will result, not the time spent waiting around for your PC to gain enough experience to reactivate.

Not to download Edwin's ability as a mage, though, because he's far and away the best pure class NPC mage in the entire game... series, even, since he's the only pure class NPC mage in BG2 anyway. ^_^;

I think maybe what I had in mind was that while Edwin might be a better Mage, Imoen might be a better overall NPC because she can supplement her spellcasting with thieving abilities. It's like how Viconia is obviously the best cleric in BG2, but some consider Anomen or Aerie to be better overall choices because of their extra fighter or mage abilities, respectively.

I think you both have a good point,
my only problem is that i don't like dualling imoen,
if you dual here at low level she'll become a good mage (and has the 18dex + shortbow) but sucks as a thief.

If you dual here at a high level, it's very hard to get here to that level again in the game.

I don't like playing Edwin (i just can't play an evil party it's just not in me) but all i tried to point out is that edwin is superior as a mage(just simply the casting) then any other NPC.

Whatever u guys say, Edwin still sucks. When i got him in BGII, i had three times as many spells as him. So i'm a better Mage, not the best but better than that arse Edwin. Of course he would be a good Mage if i wasn't one.

Originally posted by the_realmerlin
Whatever u guys say, Edwin still sucks. When i got him in BGII, i had three times as many spells as him. So i'm a better Mage, not the best but better than that arse Edwin. Of course he would be a good Mage if i wasn't one.

As long as you are on the same level as Edwin, there is no way you could have as many spell slots as he does. You could have more spells inscribed in your spell books, sure, but this is easily changed by letting Edwin inscribe some spells as well.

If you want to discuss the matter, you would do better to come with arguments than with opinions.

I think that even when you're a higher level,
and with alot off good powerfull items.

you still won't get 3times as many spells as good old Edwin.

It's true....IMO BG1 mages were massively underpowered, and going through a game without them was fairly simple....thieves were necessary in BG1 (but not in BG2) for Durlag's Tower. Mages were needed in BG2 for breach and other nice spells that were inaccessible in BG1. Edwin was better simply because he had more spells memorized than anyone else. Couple that with a Ring of Wizardry, the Gauntlets of Dex., and the robe of the Evil Archmagi, and you've got yourself the best mage in the game.

I will have too agree with stilgar (more or less) without cheating you wont get a mage with more spells than Edwin..... In my eyes he will always be the best mage ever.... because he is the best pure mage in the game...... some dueled og multi-classed mages might be nice, but they will only be better overall NPC's, due to their many skills......

Edwin RULES!!!!