NPC's you wouls have liked to meet.

Aqua-chan · Post by **Aqua-chan** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 10:22 am

Originally posted by Astafas

1. You kill him upon entering Windspear Hills the first time. He's one of the Knights who look like monsters. You need to have Keldorn in your party in order to recognize Ajantis.

2. Great! I'll try to save him next time then.

Oh my gosh. THAT was Ajantis? Oopsie...Alright, I *have* encountered him before...

I guess Anomen just didn't know his Paladins well enough.

Do try to save him. His dialogue afterwards gets hysterical!

Onyx · Post by **Onyx** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 10:35 am

By Aqua-chan:
Alora (She was cool! When Immie died, I took in Alo. Awesome thief!)

She was a nice little NPC. Could have also been a romance for halfing characters. And she was , if i',m not mistaken, a thief of good algnment. She could have been fun.

Aqua-chan · Post by **Aqua-chan** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 10:45 am

Originally posted by Onyx
She was a nice little NPC. Could have also been a romance for halfing characters. And she was , if i',m not mistaken, a thief of good algnment. She could have been fun.

We will miss her dearly.

She was almost like a duplicate of Imoen...almost. Argh, why did she have to stay in Baldur's Gate?

Ah well. Acceptable loss, I suppose...

What we need is more MALE romances options, here! Enough women already!

Onyx · Post by **Onyx** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 11:06 am

Originally posted by Aqua-chan

What we need is more MALE romances options, here! Enough women already!

Your are so right. Valygar and Edwin could have been possible romances, and Hear-Dalis too. Imagine trying too impress Hear-Dalis while he's got his mind set on Aerie.

Mianna · Post by **Mianna** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 11:44 am

I agree. Haer-Dalis is good looking and I love the "perhaps we could sell Jaheira" comment

Yes I have to admit that I never realised how hard time Anomen is having. I like my men more balanced than him

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 11:47 am

Originally posted by evelbruce
I have contemplated killing both Xzar and Edwin simply because they're evil...

I kill Edwin every time I play the game because he's so obnoxious.

Aqua-chan · Post by **Aqua-chan** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 11:55 am

Originally posted by Onyx

Your are so right. Valygar and Edwin could have been possible romances, and Hear-Dalis too. Imagine trying too impress Hear-Dalis while he's got his mind set on Aerie.

Yeah...Valygar could have used the charactor boost, I think. A romance would have been a great pick-me-up.

Haer 'Dalis would have been a great option! He's attractive, funny, nice, likes to party...Wow. Somebody build a Haer 'Dalis romance MOD please!!!

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 11:56 am

Originally posted by Onyx
You're are so right. Valygar and Edwin could have been possible romances, and Hear-Dalis too. Imagine trying too impress Hear-Dalis while he's got his mind set on Aerie.

Actually, Bioware started creating a romance for Valygar for Throne of Bhaal but never finished it. (I've seen vestiges of it in the dialogue files.) And it certainly would have made sense for Haer'Dalis to hit on a female main character. (spoiler below)

As for Anomen, or even Kelsey, I don't hate either of them, and I do feel sorry for them for having so many problems. But they're not the kind of people my character would take into her group, much less get romantically involved with. Quite simply, she doesn't want to be distracted with their personal problems and have to baby-sit them. Even Minsc would be a better choice for her. But she sincerely wishes them all the best.

SPOILER

Haer'Dalis does hit on Imoen in Throne of Bhaal. (It's just one dialogue.) His involvement with Aerie doesn't seem to stop him.

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 12:17 pm

@Onyx: I know what would answer your needs:
Annah from Planescape:Torment!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fighter/Thief.
Good.
Coolest character ever, with a nice tail!

Maybe found held captive in the Planar Prison.......

I do find backstabbing somewhat evil...
You strike with the strong intent to kill, not only for simple defense....
I normally use it only against monsters.

Lost One · Post by **Lost One** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 3:48 pm

Originally posted by Littiz
I do find backstabbing somewhat evil...
You strike with the strong intent to kill, not only for simple defense....
I normally use it only against monsters.

I think a lot of people get confused with good/evil actions. Thieving and backstabbing are non-lawful actions, where evil/good is irrelevant (which is why thieves can't be lawful

).
A Chaotic Good character can backstab Joe, Johny and Mo as many times as he wants, as long as it has the clear purpose of doing good - no evil done.
eg: A CG rogue enter his house and sees a burglar inside...he silently approaches the invader and withdrawing from hidden shadows, backstabs him viciously (likely assuming that the burglar had an evil intent).
Was it the right thing to do? No...but was it good or morally justified? You could say so, he felt outraged at the presence of this lowlife scum and proceeded to kill him (think of Minsc).
Thus, I think a lot of people get law/good & evil/chaos muddled up (it is confusing). A kid who doesn't lend his homework for his friends to copy might be called a 'good' boy. But let's say his childhood friends were in need of good grades this term in order to stay in school...I would say the kid's action was 'law-abiding' but definitely not good.
The difference between real life and BG2 is that in BG2, you know when somebody is evil (eg. red circles) so being good, you needn't think twice before backstabbing these people.
On that note - evil thieves still have a much more fun time backstabbing than good thieves.

(more targets to choose)
PS: Littiz, in the short time I played Torment - Annah was certainly a v.cool character, along with the fighter/mage githzerai or whatever he was...
@Mianna - Plz do not refer to Drizzt as a thief, he's one of my fantasy idols

- but you are right in saying that some of his offensive strikes resemble backstabbing. Which doesn't show that good can backstab too, but that he's chaotic.

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 4:18 pm

BG NPCs

I was looking at the Tashia mod forums and I happened to notice that a Kivan mod is in development, giving him full banter, some unique items and a subplot. Don't think he'll be a romance option though from what I read.

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 4:23 pm

Originally posted by VonDondu
Actually, Bioware started creating a romance for Valygar for Throne of Bhaal but never finished it. (I've seen vestiges of it in the dialogue files.) And it certainly would have made sense for Haer'Dalis to hit on a female main character.

I never knew that about Valygar...what did the dialogue say?

Wasn't the Haer'Dalis/Aerie thing going to be part of a female romance at one point too? Again, I think it was removed or never finished due to time constraints.

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 4:35 pm

@Lost One:
A Chaotic Good char, who has to defend himself, strikes back, and this could possibly cause the death of the opponent of course.

But sneaking from behind, to strike aiming DELIBERATELY at the heart or at the head while the opponent is unaware, equals to deliberately obliterate a life to remove a problem or a nuisance...
It is indeed an evil act, IMHO.
It doesn't matter if the opponent is evil, it's just an action that qualify your respect for other lives.

Good is not someone who kills evil. Good is... good!

Lawful or Chaotic, it changes only some "superficial" behaviours

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 4:45 pm

Originally posted by Littiz
Good is not someone who kills evil. Good is... good!

Lawful or Chaotic, it changes only some "superficial" behaviours

I couldn't disagree more. In your way of reasoning even a Paladin is evil, which obviously is wrong.

Lost One · Post by **Lost One** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 5:21 pm

Originally posted by Littiz
But sneaking from behind, to strike aiming DELIBERATELY at the heart or at the head while the opponent is unaware, equals to deliberately obliterate a life to remove a problem or a nuisance...
It is indeed an evil act, IMHO.
Good is not someone who kills evil. Good is... good!

Law/neutral/chaos describe method - this is very important. Look at a fantasy situation: You (PC) are walking down a street, when you come across a vile human who's WANTED for murdering innocent children.
A Lawful Good paladin would try to arrest him, talking at first, but if resisted, using direct force - this is because his actions are ordered and geared towards the law.
A Chaotic Good rogue would do anything to see the criminal pay for his actions (eg: method = chaos). Thus, he might be inclined to challenge the criminal verbally, but being a thief, he could just as easily decide to backstab him without remorse, knowing that good has been dealt.
A Neutral Good PC (also called Pure Good by some) has the benefit of choosing either method or going for a more moderate approach.
Thus, backstabbing is not an evil act - it's method is shady (much like the use of poison) but seen as a weapon, can have good or evil consequences.

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Tue Jun 18, 2002 1:50 am

Of course I give my own interpretations to alignments..
As I explained, I consider NG True Good, you pursue only good
in the end.

Indeed I consider paladins too much firm in their positions.
Aerie, Lawful Good, is "more good" than a Paladin.
I'm not saying that a good character MUST refuse to kill enemies
(something fitting for a Neutral-SuperGood character!!

),
you can fight against people who are a menace for you or for
others.
But again, and this is my PoV, backstabbing involves an intentional
act to deliver DEATH, no other than death...
And you're supposed to have gained practice somewhere!!!!
Remember me of the new NPC in ToB, remember his ability?
Read his story..........

Aubrey · Post by **Aubrey** » Tue Jun 18, 2002 2:15 am

@ Littiz --

In my point of view, a Chaotic Good character wouldn't mind backstabbing an evil person. ("They are evil we are good, there is not enough space for both of us.")

And Good IS someone who kills Evil. Otherwise Keldorn wouldn't fight so hard to eliminate evil without risking becoming a Fallen Paladin.

Cheers

Onyx · Post by **Onyx** » Tue Jun 18, 2002 2:21 am

Originally posted by Littiz
@Onyx: I know what would answer your needs:
Annah from Planescape:Torment!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fighter/Thief.
Good.
Coolest character ever, with a nice tail!
Maybe found held captive in the Planar Prison.......

I do find backstabbing somewhat evil...
You strike with the strong intent to kill, not only for simple defense....
I normally use it only against monsters.

Yeah, i've played TP and yes, Annah is cool.

But i just thought of the idea, having a good swashbackler, to help out with all thieving skilled, plus be a fancy fighter and talker could have been fun.
OK, let's not get into the issue, is backstabing evil or not.
It's just that, well, the way i imagined this rogue(swashbackler), that it was in his character not to use tactics like that. That's all.

@Aqua-chan. Yeah, someone make a Hear-Dalis romance mod.

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Tue Jun 18, 2002 2:22 am

Its subjective. A LG paladin would butcher all that is evil from a historical and role playing pov, whereas a LG priest probably wouldn't. Lumping one ninth of the population together and expecting them all to behave in exactly the same way because of their alignment is as misguided as lumping one twelth of the population together because of their star sign and expecting them all to start new careers or something at exactly the same time.

Lost One · Post by **Lost One** » Tue Jun 18, 2002 3:01 am

Originally posted by Littiz
Of course I give my own interpretations to alignments..
Remember me of the new NPC in ToB, remember his ability?
Read his story..........

Littiz, perhaps we should take this to the alignments thread.

And another thing, I haven't really played ToB yet, so I hardly know a thing about NPC X.
PS:Good luck on the Italy game. I saw the Japan-Turkey match and I expected the referee to cheat for Japan (even though he's the best ref around) but he didn't - it was a fair game. Hopefully, the same will go for Italy-S.Korea.