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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 9:23 am
by Ode to a Grasshopper
Originally posted by C Elegans
@Frogus: 
Are you positive? Good, because the mountain gorilla is a severaly endangered species, even more so after the war in Rwanda - now we at least now there is a population in Oz too Trouble is, if you dad's a silverback...where does that leave you?
Taking strongly after my mother's side of the family.
My dad had black hair until he was 30, then it went grey. My hair is thankfully tawny, like my mother's, and is likely to go silver when I get 'old', as such. Ie. not 30.
Actually, it's sort of spooky how little I take after my father's side of the family...
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 12:11 pm
by Nomer
Originally posted by C Elegans
Hm, there seems to be a little confusion in terminology here. Humans are primates - primates are a large order of mammals including among others man, the great apes, monkeys, lemurs and galagos.
I guess you mean you don't understand how human could come from the apes? (Such as gorillas and chimps?) The answer is we didn't - instead, we have a common ancenstor far back in time. Protein homology comparisons indicate that it should be about 6 million years ago chimps and humans had a common ancestor. The Toumai skull indicates it might be a longer ago than that. However, in brief - evolution science and molecular genetics shows we related to chimps and gorillas as third cousins, not like grandfathers.
Confusion is not the half of it. It is called lack of sleep and too much studying.
But, I see your meaning. So genetically speaking, we would be related to everything on this planet, in one way or another.
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 12:13 pm
by The Z
@Ode.....he could be an Ardipithecus Ramidus.....
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 5:13 pm
by Gwalchmai
Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper
Actually, it's sort of spooky how little I take after my father's side of the family...
And how familiar the milk man looks.......
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 5:18 pm
by C Elegans
@Z: ROFL
Originally posted by Gwalchmai
And how familiar the milk man looks.......
ROFLMAO
Hi Gwally
Since I think you're far more knowledgable than I am about hominid evolution, I'd be interest in your opinion of the finding of the Toumai skull.
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 7:10 pm
by Vinin
So yes in response, eventually, we are related to everything, even my pet hamster...ohh how I wish it could talk like the ones in Hamtaro ...
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 8:04 pm
by The Z
I'll comment later when I find my Gr. 7 Socials notes.....it's buried under a pile of various junk that will take a very long time to sort through......though Gwally can probably give 10 times the amount of feedback from just his head
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2002 12:44 am
by Ode to a Grasshopper
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2002 5:14 pm
by Gwalchmai
Originally posted by C Elegans
ROFLMAO Hi Gwally Since I think you're far more knowledgable than I am about hominid evolution, I'd be interest in your opinion of the finding of the Toumai skull.
I am hardly and expert, but here goes.....
I am struck by the fossils that were found – a jaw fragment, cranium, and some teeth. Heh, heh. Just what was found with Piltdown! I assume these were in better context….
What we have to remember is that Chimps are just as evolved as Humans. They didn’t stop evolving millions of years ago just because we split off from them. No, the common ancestor of chimps and humans would have to be somewhat different from both. Even though the author of the Nature article that CE posted ascribes to homoplasy (first paragraph, second post), he still expects that an early hominid will have smaller canines and larger brains than the early ancestor of the chimps (last two paragraphs of first post). That small contradiction aside, he goes on to make his case for homoplasy based on this skull. Yes, paleoanthropologists can predict general characteristics of theorized ancestral populations, but specific characteristics (size of brow ridge, size of canines) require evidence.
Does the Toumai skull push the date of the Chimp/Human ancestor back to 6 or 7 million years? Maybe. But if homoplasy and adaptive radiation are taken to the extreme, it is possible that the forerunner of the chimp once had a larger brain, smaller canine, and more upright posture, and that 6 million years of adaptation to the Chimp’s econiche has brought it to where it is today. The Chimp/Human common ancestor may
post-date Toumai. Its geographic location apart from other early hominid fossils (last paragraph, CE’s third quote-post) could just as easily prove my point as well as theirs.
Concerning the “missing link.” My physical anthropology teacher told me that there was no such thing as a missing link. That was 18 years ago when he said that. Humans and Chimps are already sufficiently linked through fossil evidence. They are only now quibbling about
which fossils form the most direct link.
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2002 7:45 pm
by Tybaltus
Keep remembering that evolution is a theory and is not proven. Though, I do primarily believe that evolution is quite possible, have you ever thought that when God created this planet and the universe, he dicided to throw in some red herrings to trigger our curiousity? This thought goes through my mind now and again.
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2002 8:34 pm
by The Z
Perhaps each day mentioned in the Bible is equivelant to one million years? Perhaps when it mentions the world was flooded, God meant the world from Noah's standpoint? Linking the Bible to Science has always ran through my mind, but I doubt there's any way to present it to a group of scientists......mind you I do tend to like hybrids of everything, from music to game taste.
Damn, I couldn't find my Socials notes. Only a couple pages on Ardipithecus Ramidus......
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2002 8:41 pm
by Tybaltus
Damn, I couldn't find my Socials notes. Only a couple pages on Ardipithecus Ramidus......
Oi. I just graduated high school and I have no idea who in the world that person is.
But I try to make science and the Bible together, and when it becomes difficult, I just say the God is just throwing us off. The link between science and religeon might never be found. And sometimes I have no idea what to think when they contradict one-another. I always lean towards religeon over science, though.
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2002 11:17 pm
by Dottie
Originally posted by Tybaltus
Keep remembering that evolution is a theory and is not proven.
There is an excellent post by C Elegans about this in the 'Evolution: True or False' thread. Perhaps the mods should consider makeing it a sticky.
Or mandatory reading in some schools.
If someone cant find it I can quote it here, or provide a link.
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2002 11:23 pm
by Tybaltus
There is an excellent post by C Elegans about this in the 'Evolution: True or False' thread.
Seems like everybody had all the fun before I arrived here, Ive missed out on quite a few good conversations, I think.
Perhaps the mods should consider makeing it a sticky.
I dont think its
that necessary to see, but a link might be good.
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2002 11:33 pm
by Dottie
Originally posted by Tybaltus
Ive missed out on quite a few good conversations, I think.
So have I...
I dont think its that necessary to see, but a link might be good.
http://gamebanshee.com/forums/showthrea ... eadid=9918
look down to her first post.
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2002 11:47 pm
by Tybaltus
look down to her first post.
Wow! CE is really smart.
Thats a big post, lots of info. Some of that info just went over my head. Maybe because Im getting tired, its pretty late. Ill have to read over it again, sometime.
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2002 11:51 pm
by Dottie
Originally posted by Tybaltus
Wow! CE is really smart.
Nah, she just a stupid bimbo really, she cuts and paste all those posts from some smart guy on another board. j/k
Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2002 3:10 am
by Mr Sleep
Originally posted by The Z
Perhaps each day mentioned in the Bible is equivelant to one million years? Perhaps when it mentions the world was flooded, God meant the world from Noah's standpoint? Linking the Bible to Science has always ran through my mind, but I doubt there's any way to present it to a group of scientists......mind you I do tend to like hybrids of everything, from music to game taste.
Damn, I couldn't find my Socials notes. Only a couple pages on Ardipithecus Ramidus......
I really don't think that the two are interchangable, i will give you a why later.
<edit> Reason:
If one is the follow through with their chosen religion, be it mainstream catholicism, protestant, Islam whatever nowhere do any of them state that evolution is true. In fact the timeline in most religious work (excluding evolution
) is exceptionally short compared to the millions of years.
I will have to use christianity as a basis for my ensuing example since i am not familiar with other religions.
People/theologians/village idiots/philosophers have often tried to make the bible into a giant metaphor, however it just doesn't work. If one believes the metaphor issue then the other arguments required by the scripture simply don't work. You have to believe it is all true or the foundations simply don't function and your belief's start sinking.
To believe a doctrine and believe a religion you have to accept it, learn from it, teach it if you like but to take those words and try to connect them to another theory or religion simply doesn't do either justice, you can hardly have faith in a being that isn't sure whether he believes in evolution or not
Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2002 4:45 am
by CM
Appearing to be the Muslim token male of this forum seems to be my thing
Muslims believe religion and science are interchangable and work well together. It is believed that the Quran lists many things that people take as normal natural science today. The most famous is the quote saying Allah created us and can identify us with the tips of our fingers ie. finger prints. Also some of the advances that the modern world followed up on (like algebra, Chemistry etc) were created and developed in Muslim societies ie religious.
My 2 cents.
Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2002 4:49 am
by Mr Sleep
Originally posted by CM
Appearing to be the Muslim token male of this forum seems to be my thing
Muslims believe religion and science are interchangable and work well together. It is believed that the Quran lists many things that people take as normal natural science today. The most famous is the quote saying Allah created us and can identify us with the tips of our fingers ie. finger prints. Also some of the advances that the modern world followed up on (like algebra, Chemistry etc) were created and developed in Muslim societies ie religious.
My 2 cents.
I don't necessarily mean science per sé is not interchangable just evolution, could you see evolution being part of Islam, surely it would just taint the convictions?