Bad NPC classes

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 4:26 am

Originally posted by Delita
I don't really like Bard Song in BG, it's basically useless if you want your bard to attack or cast, you can't use bard song.

Usually bard song gives bonuses that help you fight but it's worthless if the bard can't fight or cast in battle while you're using it.

Arent't you pretty much missing the point here? The Bard Song also helps the Bard's allies. Have you seen the effects of the Skald Bard Song or the Enhanced Bard Song?

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 4:34 am

Re: Re: Bad NPC classes

Originally posted by Impaler987
Blades are the best bard kit by far, but Haer'Dalis does suck because of his terrible stats. He's stupid for a bard, so his spell level is low, and his constitution of 9 means that he takes hits like a weak kitten.

You are correct about Blades being the best Bard kit - the person who disagrees has no clue what he's talking about.

However, I think you've misunderstood something regarding his "spell level". No Bard can cast spells above 6th level and you get no bonus spells for high Intelligence.

Haer'Dalis stats are actually very good with one exception: his Constitution. Fortunately, this can be compensated for with the Girdle of Fortitude and protective spells such as Stoneskin.

Ambiorix · Post by **Ambiorix** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 5:08 am

When I first started playing BGII, I was rather disappointed at the classes and stats of the NPC's. I missed my favourites Coran and Kivan.

But I learned later that their weaknesses can be overcome in BGII:
- Jaheira: needs Belm (extra attack) and a girdle of strength
- Keldorn, Korgan or Edwin: need bracers of dexterity
- Korgan: can't use missile weapons, but who would want him to when there is the dwarven-thrower
- Mazzy: needs some girdle of strength
- Jan: needs ... nothing! Easily the best NPC. Jan rules!

The only NPC I'd never consider using is Cernd.

So I don't feel the need to play with custom-made characters like the ones I used in Icewind Dale. Half of the fun is getting everyone optimally equipped as soon as possible.

The only thing I missed was another thief (in BGI there were many thieves, too many actually), cause Jan's thieving skills develop slowly. A fighter-thief (like Valen or dual-classes Shar-Teel) would have been excellent. Yoshimo could have been good, but as we all know ... .

MasterDarkNinja · Post by **MasterDarkNinja** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 6:11 am

Originally posted by Astafas

Arent't you pretty much missing the point here? The Bard Song also helps the Bard's allies. Have you seen the effects of the Skald Bard Song or the Enhanced Bard Song?

based on what I read in guild books it's only the skald that gives your allies bonus’s when fighting, the other bards make the weaker and easier to strike.

The only thing I missed was another thief (in BGI there were many thieves, too many actually), cause Jan's thieving skills develop slowly. A fighter-thief (like Valen or dual-classes Shar-Teel) would have been excellent. Yoshimo could have been good, but as we all know ...

I agree that no good thieves is a BIG problem in BG2, I never played BG1 though.
I don't use Imoen or Nalia for thieves since their thief level can never be raised. you can only raise their thief stats a little with some thief stat increasing items. that's why I used Jan so much before I started Soloing.

gnomethingy · Post by **gnomethingy** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 8:24 am

The blade, is not really a singer, he isnt meant to use his song.. He is supposed to fight, cast spells, pick pockets and id items but in tob this changes becouse he can set traps and with enhanced bard song hla (Its better than the highest lvl skald song) he is as good a singer as any other bard
Your basic bard however, is a real money saver, id's everything (Think about all those items at 100 gold a pop) and picks pockets, he can cast alright spells, a sort of backup mage and in tob, well...bards have other uses as well, they lvl up so damn fast that there spell are often more effective than the same cast by a mage, ala fireball, flame arrow stoneskins etc there real charm is dispell and remove magic, as there often as high or higher lvl than the "Boss monsters" you face saving your mage alot of spell slots on breach and the like

Spoilers ahead? Just mentioning the names of some bosses, dont look if you dont wanna know

And by tob, theres still all those reasons to keep a bard, and one more big fat juicy reason

Spike traps!
The absolute, double cheese supreme Hla.... Kills anything, kills everything, kills it without hassle and kills it fast.
I killed draconis with four of them, killed demogorgan with five, killed the nasties in the seal parties with them, killed irenicus with them, killed mellisan with them, heck.. I killed *EVERYTHING* With spike traps, gotta love it

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 3:59 am

Originally posted by MasterDarkNinja
Ibased on what I read in guild books it's only the skald that gives your allies bonus’s when fighting, the other bards make the weaker and easier to strike.

I'm not sure what books you are refering to here. The effects of the normal Bard Song is up to debate. It's clear however that it effects all allies standing nearby (one of the effects seems to be immunity to Fear). The Jester's Song is the only one that doesn't effect allies.

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 8:57 am

Normal bard song boosts Luck and morale.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 10:24 am

Originally posted by Sojourner
Normal bard song boosts Luck and morale.

How do you know this and what are the exact effects of the boost?

Ode to a Grasshopper · Sun Sep 01, 2002 10:33 am

It's in the manual, IIRC, or else it can be found on the GB BG2 section (which I can no longer access due to not having any money, if someone could check that'd be much appreciated).
Morale helps people get over Fear effects faster, and stops NPCs from running all over the place when fighting tough enemies and a few of them die. Luck raises saving throws, and (IIRC) THAC0.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 10:57 am

Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper
It's in the manual, IIRC, or else it can be found on the GB BG2 section (which I can no longer access due to not having any money, if someone could check that'd be much appreciated).
Morale helps people get over Fear effects faster, and stops NPCs from running all over the place when fighting tough enemies and a few of them die. Luck raises saving throws, and (IIRC) THAC0.

I have never found that info on this or any other site. Lots of people have an opinion but I've never seen anyone backing it up with hard facts or tests.

To my knowledge, the Bard Song gives you some kind of resistance to Fear. If you have already been effected by Fear before the Song, the latter seems to nullify it.

Anyone knows how the moral checks are made?

One of the earlier discussions.

MasterDarkNinja · Post by **MasterDarkNinja** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 11:14 am

Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper
It's in the manual, IIRC, or else it can be found on the GB BG2 section (which I can no longer access due to not having any money, if someone could check that'd be much appreciated).

hey their sections are all right from what I saw, it doens't tell you the truth at the end of SOA for those 5 tests. there are different rewards for each path....
I'll say them all

Spoilers

Test of Pride
Good Path: if you question pride then you'll be greeted by a silver dragon, it will just simply give you the Tear of Bhaal

Test of Fear
Good Path: cast resist fear, then take the bottom route and grab the tear of BHaal, avoid the beholders
Evil Path: accept the cloak of bravery, thereby avoiding the fear traps on the path to the left, grab the tear of bhaal and walk out

Test of Selfishness
Good Path: take the doors to the left, and permanently lose 2hp -1 dex and -75,000XP
Evil Path: take the doors to the right, and watch your party member be tortured and killed
(note if you teleport yourself to the other side without opening any doors it will count as the good path)

Test of Greed
Good Path: give the blackrazor to the djinni to set him free, You'll then get the tear of Bhaal
Evil Path: use the blackrazor to kill the djinni, then get the tear of bhaal as a reward

Test of Wrath
Good Path: kill Sarevok without giving in to the anger. this will earn you the tear of Bhaal
Evil Path: kill Sarevok out of pure hatred and get the tear of Bhaal upon his defeat. (note you'll get +1 in one of your primary attributes for doing it this way.)

Rewards

Fear Tear
Good Reward: immunity to +1 weapons and less
Evil Reward: +2 con
Selfishness Tear
Good Reward: your main character will be granted +10% resistance to magic (on top of what he already has)
Evil Reward: you will gain +2 AC
Greed Tear
Good Reward: +2 to all saving throws
Evil Tear: gain 200,000 XP
Wrath Tear
Good Reward: +1 WIS and CHA
Evil Reward: +2 STR

these Versus guild books are so handy (thats how I know those rewards)

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 11:17 am

I know that normal bard Song boosts Luck and Morale from the manual, but so far a search with IE to find out how this works turns up nothing. According to my BG1 manual, Luck provided by the bard song was implemented as penalties to enemies' attack and damage rolls.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 11:37 am

Originally posted by Sojourner
I know that normal bard Song boosts Luck and Morale from the manual, but so far a search with IE to find out how this works turns up nothing. According to my BG1 manual, Luck provided by the bard song was implemented as penalties to enemies' attack and damage rolls.

Also interesting is of course to know how the Normal Bard Song improves as you level up (given you have no kit). A penalty for the enemies would explain why you see nothing on your character sheet...

Did you know how Moral works? Saving throws? Other checks?