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Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2002 8:14 pm
by HighLordDave
I know of several staunch devotees of the books and they all hate the movies. They felt too much was left out, that too many changes were made and that the movie did not stay "true" to their vision of Middle Earth. Most simply shrug their shoulders and say, "Oh, well, sometimes you have to cut things out because . . . [insert commercial reason here]." They will go see the next two movies and they'll buy the DVDs, but ultimately, they were disappointed.
The people who enjoyed the movies are the people who either haven't read the books (like me) or don't take them too seriously. This is where the Star Wars fanboys have the same problem with the prequel movies; they have expectations that are impossible to meet. Most people I know enjoyed the lastest two Star Wars movies because we didn't treat them as if they were the Second Coming. But there are a few who feel that Lucas betrayed them and what they think Star Wars is "supposed to be".
Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2002 8:48 pm
by The Z
Actually I haven't paid much attention to the prequels because of the rich 'expanded universe' books. I still think I would like to see AoTC simply because anything Star Wars tickles my fancy.
Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2002 9:10 pm
by Kayless
Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2002 4:49 am
by Kayless
Well, we have ourselves a fine example of rational LotR criticism here. 
Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2002 8:10 am
by Mr Sleep
Originally posted by Kayless
Well you've just branded yourself a pariah towards the nerd population of the world. 
Really? Oh No!!!!
Save me Kayless, bring me back from the edge of normalcy!!!
Lets put it this way, Lucas can't direct (in my opinion
), he might be able to write fairly well, although I would even question that - I would contend he was better at plagerising. Personally I find he also can't actually bring the best out of actors which is half the job of a director, look at all the good actors he has had and they haven't really excelled as they should.
I couldn't find the links to my previous vitriolic comments on the subject of AotC but they are there somewhere, to paraphrase I think the film lacks drive and the plot is boring. There isn't enough Jedi on Sith action, the most interesting character is Ewan Mcgregor who actually manages to string together a performance and his progression through the film is the most interesting.
The "Young Love" is tiring and frankly superfulous, they could have had one scene with them making out or something, hell they could have even left it to our imagination (but we're Hollywood, we can't do that!!
).
The CG does it's normal job of making me feel nothing for the set pieces, it's strange, I can watch an film made entirely of CG and animation and be enthralled however to me when it is integrated it just looks tacky.
Another point in my tyrade of anti-lucas is that the undisputably (at least in my eyes
) best Star Wars is the one that Lucas had least to do with, namely Empire Strikes Back. The reason it is the best is due in no small part to great performances, convincing storyline, interesting plot twists and Jedi on Sith action...a great deal of which AotC didn't deal with particularly well.
As for Jackson and LotR, I probably could find those links
Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2002 10:25 am
by gnomethingy
Lemme put this to y'all....
Aotc might not be the best movie on earth, but theres one thing it is.. and thats fun, its an amusing way to kill a few hours and visually stimulating (If nothing else) to enjoy more than once, sure theres some bad moments but theres also big explosions and lightsabres, so who cares?
For anyone who is adamant however about there dislike of Aotc..
You might get a kick out of this...
Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2002 12:31 pm
by Mr Sleep
Ahhh but that is the thing, I can forgive a movie its problems if it turns out to be fun, like Spiderman, which had all manner of problems but I still enjoyed it. AotC however was just plain boring most of the time. I have had this discussion several times I am what you could say practiced
Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2002 1:11 pm
by Gruntboy
I don't know sleep, I feel that Lucas has b*astardised his own vision of AoTC - ruinedit for us all. Wasn't faithful to his own vision.. blah... blah... blah... hate humanity because of AoTC now...
Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2002 1:24 pm
by Mr Sleep
Originally posted by Gruntboy
I don't know sleep, I feel that Lucas has b*astardised his own vision of AoTC - ruinedit for us all. Wasn't faithful to his own vision.. blah... blah... blah... hate humanity because of AoTC now...
Well I hated humanity before, now instead I just channel all that hate at Lucas
(oh and not forgetting Peter Jackson
)
Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2002 1:34 pm
by Gruntboy
Damn humans, hope we wipe ourselves out.
On the plus side though, AoTC has lightsabres.
Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2002 1:51 pm
by Mr Sleep
Originally posted by Gruntboy
Damn humans, hope we wipe ourselves out. On the plus side though, AoTC has lightsabres.
See I could just about be content with the human race if there was more lightsabre action in the next Star Wars movie, it should be 2 hrs of Jedi on Sith or Padme on Jedi, which ever works, it doesn't need a plot, just vertical action or horizontal action, either way
some kind of action
My comments on LotR can be found
here ...it took all of the seriousness of the situation out of that scene, it created this vapid and horrible atmosphere of disgust
Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2002 2:44 pm
by Gruntboy
LOL!
I learned no to get to upset about movies. I figured they're a form of entertainment for a particular person/time/mood. The Fellowship is never going to beat the book - I enjoyed the ride but if I want more, I can dip into one of my copies.
The new Star Wars movies are never going to live up to my expectations of growing up with the first 3, and yes Jar Jar deserves a horrible, painful end but boy are they eye-candy. The sabre duels, cgi battles and corny-but-oh-so-deliverable lines are worth it alone ("Your powers are weak old man!" - "Gruntboy, cut it out and hand me the photocopy toner.")
There are a few that are more of an experience than entertainment. Recently I enjoyed, but found har going, Black Hawk Down and We Were Soldiers - in a similar vein to Saving Private Ryan (on C5 tonight BTW).
Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2002 4:02 pm
by Mr Sleep
Originally posted by Gruntboy
I learned no to get to upset about movies. I figured they're a form of entertainment for a particular person/time/mood. The Fellowship is never going to beat the book - I enjoyed the ride but if I want more, I can dip into one of my copies.
That is very pragmatic, there is always the issue of money being paid for substandard material but otherwise you are probably right. It offends my sensibilities more than anything else, that they are in the position to create something innovative but they consistently don't deliver. AotC is an exception however, since I didn't enjoy it pretty much because I found it boring.
("Your powers are weak old man!" - "Gruntboy, cut it out and hand me the photocopy toner.")
LMAO
There are a few that are more of an experience than entertainment. Recently I enjoyed, but found har going, Black Hawk Down and We Were Soldiers - in a similar vein to Saving Private Ryan (on C5 tonight BTW).
I was recently watching Enemy at the Gates, that is definately one of those movies, at the same time as it being grueling it is also kind of rewarding and at the same time entertaining....plus it was a well made film
Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2002 4:24 pm
by Gruntboy
Hmm, yeah.
About the money - I find I usually enjoy something so bad if I paid money for it! Sometimes there so bad you can't but help laugh.
For I have a friend who's read the trilogy over two dozen times and thinks they're the greatest thing in the history of mankind. And he loves the films. Most of his friends (the LotR freaks) feel the movie stayed true to the spirit of the books, despite it's cuts and changes (you can't fit 527 pages of material into 3 hours without cutting something). I guess it depends on the reasons why you liked the book, and what the movie does/doesn't have in common with it. The movie delivers for some of the die-hards, but not all. But there are indeed those who take the book seriously and love the film too, so it's not just either/or. 
I loathe the EU! My cousin is always pressuring me to read the books, despite my repeated assertions that they are TRASH! 
What I like about the Star Wars movies (i.e. the modern myth aspect) is nowhere to be found in the sci-fi style books. Others, who liked Star Wars for different reasons than I, like both. So you can be a fan of Star Wars movies and enjoy the books, just as you can take the LotR novels seriously and love the movie as well. 
