We are at War

frogus · Post by **frogus** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 1:54 am

I cannot believe it...such evil goes on all because of one man's whim...maybe George Bush has a complex of competition with his father.

Maybe he just doesn't care about anyone but himself.

He doesn't believe for a second that this is the right thing to do.

It is a dreadful day when the country with so much power that it has to police the world starts to take sick advantage of their power.

The USA is supposed to be a symbol of democracy and freedom. Who could have thought that one man would ruin it, with such an unspeakably opaque scheme for money and glory.

Democracy is dead, and Osama is laughing.

Minerva · Post by **Minerva** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 2:51 am

Originally posted by Scayde
Interesting note, An iraqi news site I have been monitoring, to get an idea of the views of the Iraqis, is now a dead link. If anyone knows a reputable news site which focuses the Mid-Eastern view point, and is current and timely in reporting the events. Would you please post the link.

I don't have links, but I've got recommendations:

Al-Jazeera
Jordan Times
Middle East Times
Al-Ahram
Turkish Daily News
Ha'aretz

Of those, Middle East Times and Al-Ahram are weekly, though my friend (my office is in the Institute of Arab Isram Studies, and he's researching on media coverage) says they are excellent. Another friend (he frequently visits Syria, Palestine and that area for his research) agreed, "Yes, Al-Ahram is very good". Turkish Daily News updates fairly quickly, and Al-Jazeera is usually quick and fair, especially they have just started English website (many of its journalists had worked/trained with BBC).

BBC has Arab site as well as World service, and I think it's still quite fair and has wide coverage.

Hope it helps.

Karembeu · Post by **Karembeu** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 3:20 am

Originally posted by Minerva
I don't have links, but I've got recommendations:

Found some of them:

Jordan Times
Middle east Times
Al-ahram
Turkish daily news
Ha'aretz

Morlock · Post by **Morlock** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 4:03 am

So, Hell begins!

I just woke up (it's 12:05), since my work is on vacation today.

Now, I open the paper and find out War has begun.

It says that from now on, we have to carry our gas masks everywere, and stay somewhere near a sealed room.

So, I think I have maybe even more validity than others here to say, THIS WAR IS STUPID! Just send commandos do get rid of Saddam and stop this #@%&*!$ war!

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 4:55 am

Bush's speech was a joke, oh well I can't expect anything better it was a bit early in the day and he probably had to shake his hangover

I quote "My fellow citizens, the dangers to our country and our world will be overcome. We will pass through this time of peril and carry on the work of peace. We will defend our freedom. We will bring freedom to others, and we will prevail."

Work of peace, I find that one particularly amusing, everyone detached from the situation can see how itching Bush is for war. There has been a suggestion this is because he needs to because he has to cover the amount he wants to spend on the military budget so war is the easiest route towards completing the Star Wars project and all that jazz *sigh*

I find it very interesting how liberating a country from an evil opressor works when your blowing those same people up, oh well, I guess I'm just not enough of a patriot.

Hope the collatoral damage on the civilians isn't too bad.

Does anyone else think that the "Saddam" at the conference was a double, he just didn't look right to me. The BBC news this morning was a joke, they just love the fact they have something other than paedophiles and "The Stars" to wax lyrical about. People are going to lose their lives and the news pounce on it. It's a sad day for integrity.

Minerva · Post by **Minerva** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 5:34 am

Originally posted by Mr Sleep
Bush's speech was a joke, oh well I can't expect anything better it was a bit early in the day and he probably had to shake his hangover

I quote "My fellow citizens, the dangers to our country and our world will be overcome. We will pass through this time of peril and carry on the work of peace. We will defend our freedom. We will bring freedom to others, and we will prevail."

He also said this war would take a little longer than some had predicted.

I watched yesterday an American political historian answering to BBC: "This man (Bush) is now the great commander of this crusade. He is the leader of the chosen people of the United Satates".

One of my housemates shouted "That's stupid!", and another bursted into laughter.

Karembeu · Post by **Karembeu** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 5:40 am

Originally posted by Mr Sleep
Does anyone else think that the "Saddam" at the conference was a double, he just didn't look right to me.

Agreed....could have been because it was an old recording, or indeed a double?!?

Anyone have any thoughts on the coherent attack in southern Afghanistan this morning. Was it because the U.S fear "terrorist-attacks" or because they wanted it highlighted in media (as a link between Al Qaida and Saddam?)?!?

CM · Post by CM » Thu Mar 20, 2003 6:00 am

Arabnews.com = Saudi Newspaper. Used to read it all the time when i was in Egypt.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 6:06 am

Originally posted by Minerva
He also said this war would take a little longer than some had predicted.

I watched yesterday an American political historian answering to BBC: "This man (Bush) is now the great commander of this crusade. He is the leader of the chosen people of the United Satates". One of my housemates shouted "That's stupid!", and another bursted into laughter.

I'm not sure why it would take any longer than predicted, unless of course the predictions were erraneous in the first place.

That is funny, funny in a sad and horrible way, but still worth a guffaw.

Originally posted by Karembeu
Agreed....could have been because it was an old recording, or indeed a double?!?

From what I heard it could well have been recorded at any time, perhaps there were references but what I heard of the speech wasn't exactly very specific.

Originally posted by Karembeu
Anyone have any thoughts on the coherent attack in southern Afghanistan this morning. Was it because the U.S fear "terrorist-attacks" or because they wanted it highlighted in media (as a link between Al Qaida and Saddam?)?!?

I would hazard a guess it's the later

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 6:08 am

I'm thinking, let's just get this over with.
Don't get me wrong, I hate war. But Bush showed from the start that he intended to follow this path all the way through.

One man can turn the world upside down.
That's the american way.

But regarding the past when America came to our aid and since Saddam is a mad dictator, I think we should just aid not Bush but the soldiers who are out there right now... this one time.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 6:31 am

Blix has had a pop at the US and said something that I have also been saying http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 867913.stm

Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 6:36 am

Just talking to an American...

...and he told me that when people ask him what he thinks of the war he'd just shrug and say "Does it matter? It's not like Bush called me and asked my opinion..."

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 7:34 am

Originally posted by Mr Sleep
It's a sad day for integrity.

But it's a great day for ratings.

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 7:39 am

Folks, let's please keep things focused in this thread on the war and its activities, rather than turn Scayde's thread into another anti/pro Iraq war thread. We have several of those, that are still available for debating the causes of the war, and the personalities involved. Thanks.

And in advance, let's all stay calm, and respect one another's viewpoints. I have a feeling we're going to need that reminder for some time, on this issue. We're entering times which, whatever your stance, are perilous ones in which lives will be lost, and tempers will flare. Let's all remain friends, and hope for the best.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 7:55 am

Originally posted by HighLordDave
But it's a great day for ratings.

Indeed.

Fable, duly noted.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 8:20 am

Originally posted by Mr Sleep
<snip>
People are going to lose their lives and the news pounce on it. It's a sad day for integrity.

Thus is the way of the world.

As any war - this war is a bankrupthcy of humanity - most knew that neither Bush nor Saddam would back down and thus, we knew this war would come for a long time.
Practically since 9/11 there have been indicators of this.
And now the war is uppon us.

I will not sit here in my comfetable chair and state whom is right and whom is wrong. In my oppinion infact all parties in this matter are transgressors.

-US for pushing for a war with Iraq, although the (stated) reasons are noble.

-Saddam for being a manipulative evil dictator of an entier nation.

-UN for not being able to decide on common grounds (League of Nations comes to mind)

-EU for the same - high and mighty notions of finding common ground to balance out the current "superpowers" (wether they be economical, political or military - US; China and to some extent Russia and the Arab Leauge(don't know official name of this).)

-And although this will cause some comotion - to an extent the arab nations/people of not being able/willling/interested in getting rid of dictators. I'm not trying to push down democracy on the arab world, but I do find it hard to belive that they themselves aren't capeble or willing of getting rid of a person wich causes so much pain and grief.

In my oppinion there was little that could be done to prevent this war. Clash of nations will occur untill human as a race can unite under a common goal. This I fail to see as a possibility ever, though.

And btw - if I may throw some cynicsme into this thread:
Good things can come from war, if this war goes somewhat as expected it can help boost economy of the world again to all benefits,, wich have been staggering for a long time due to uncertaincies.
And as we all (proberly) know - many techonological breakthroughs comes from the millitary and the fact that it get field tested in wars make it commercial attractive. (think GPS for just one technology)

Minerva · Post by **Minerva** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 8:36 am

Just back from an Anti-War marching, organized by students Stop the War Coalition.

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 8:55 am

You marched?
Admirable.

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 9:25 am

@Xandax: I agree completely.

frogus · Post by **frogus** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 10:48 am

You DIDN'T march?!

Do it now! Organise a protest.

It looks like not much school will be done by me for the next couple of weeks. Organised walking out of jobs and schools are happening every day.

We (in Britain) must show Tony Blair that he has no superior privellage to do whatever he wants on the international and military stage - he has a duty, and a solemn responsibility to represent his people, who democratically chose him, above everyone else, as the man who they thought would stand for their opinions.

Tony Blair has stabbed his electorate in the back, by failing to use any democratic discussion or appeal to the obvious popular opinion before deciding to lead his country into a deadly and immoral and unprofitable war.

He has no right to lead this country anymore.