Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 8:11 am
Give him a break... His mind is just a bit fogged up.Originally posted by Georgi
But yours evidently is not, or I wouldn't have had to point it out to you.
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Matrix Theory?
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Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 8:14 am
Maybe I cunningly manipulated you into pointing that out.Originally posted by Georgi
But yours evidently is not, or I wouldn't have had to point it out to you.
And you missed the subtle humor of the no-complaining joke, BTW.
Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 8:23 am
Originally posted by das_hermit
And you missed the subtle humor of the no-complaining joke, BTW.
Maybe I saw it, but I ignored it, thereby cunningly manipulated you into seeming like an attention seeker.
Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 8:30 am
How very Machiavellian of you.Originally posted by Georgi
Maybe I saw it, but I ignored it, thereby cunningly manipulated you into seeming like an attention seeker.
Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 8:38 am
Originally posted by das_hermit
How very Machiavellian of you.
Ooh look at the college boy with his big words...
Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 8:38 am
And then there's your Chuzzwazzer...Originally posted by Georgi
Ooh look at the college boy with his big words...
Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 8:44 am
Originally posted by Aegis
And then there's your Chuzzwazzer...
Aegis, put your Chuzzwazzer away before you hurt someone.
Hysteria is a killer, you know. Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 8:45 am
LOL! Got by Aegis!Originally posted by Aegis
And then there's your Chuzzwazzer...
Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 9:01 am
Originally posted by das_hermit
LOL! Got by Aegis!
Oh please. In Aegis' dreams, that comment might have made me feel a slightly tiny ickle bit toasty... not, unfortunately, in this reality.
Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 9:27 am
Jealous isn't hard to spot... Hamster bait.Originally posted by Georgi
Oh please. In Aegis' dreams, that comment might have made me feel a slightly tiny ickle bit toasty... not, unfortunately, in this reality.
Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 1:17 pm
sorry I'm serious again
frogus put it perfectly
Yet I try to add more food for thought.
All the "raw data" needs to be interpreted, as previously stated.
That is, we receive the "input" and "convert it in a suitable format" for us.
Life in this planet and evolution has generated some "standards" for this kind of conversion. Maybe they were the fittest, but...
..in abstract, nothing would prevent different courses and means of interpretation.
In other words, we could as well "see sounds" or "hear images", or even use completely different ways of representation of the information.
When you receive the sonic wave, well, you have the input, do whatever you want with it!
I sometimes think how cool would be if things were different!
Well and I hope CE won't seriously contradict me here, these are only rants I'm not a scientist
frogus put it perfectly
Yet I try to add more food for thought.
All the "raw data" needs to be interpreted, as previously stated.
That is, we receive the "input" and "convert it in a suitable format" for us.
Life in this planet and evolution has generated some "standards" for this kind of conversion. Maybe they were the fittest, but...
..in abstract, nothing would prevent different courses and means of interpretation.
In other words, we could as well "see sounds" or "hear images", or even use completely different ways of representation of the information.
When you receive the sonic wave, well, you have the input, do whatever you want with it!
I sometimes think how cool would be if things were different!
Well and I hope CE won't seriously contradict me here, these are only rants I'm not a scientist
Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 2:36 pm
Re: Re: Re: Matrix Theory?
How do we know its real.
Better question, If a mime falls does anyone hear it?
Originally posted by das_hermit
Better still, if a tree falls and hits a mime, and there's no-one around to witness it, does anyone care?
EDIT-DAMN YOU @AEGIS!
How do we know its real.
Better question, If a mime falls does anyone hear it?
Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 5:19 am
Originally posted by Aegis
Hamster bait.
Fish slapper.
Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 9:19 am
... Touche...Originally posted by Georgi
Fish slapper.
Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2003 11:15 am
I couldn't let this one go unanswered.
We don't. All that we can know for sure are formal truths that would remain true in any possible world, irrespective of our own perception or existence, such as 1+1=2.Originally posted by craig
How do we know its real.
Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2003 11:27 am
Re: I couldn't let this one go unanswered.
But how do we know that 1+1=2 on a different planet?! We know it is, but what about Species X on Planet Y? They say it equals 3!
Originally posted by das_hermit
We don't. All that we can know for sure are formal truths that would remain true in any possible world, irrespective of our own perception or existence, such as 1+1=2.
But how do we know that 1+1=2 on a different planet?! We know it is, but what about Species X on Planet Y? They say it equals 3!
Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2003 4:48 pm
Re: Re: I couldn't let this one go unanswered.
What I mean is, 'one' and 'two' are labels which correspond to things that happen in the world - sometimes there is one cow, sometimes there are two.
But if there were no instances of two anythings to the consciousness, wouldn't the labels dissolve, having nothing to correspond to?
They are wrong, and a short demonstration with fingers will prove it.Originally posted by Nippy
But how do we know that 1+1=2 on a different planet?! We know it is, but what about Species X on Planet Y? They say it equals 3!
But imagine a universe in which nothing exists except one consciousness. Arguing whether 1 + 1 = 2 would be useless, wouldn't it? Ordinal values would be meaningless - where would the concept of oneness or twoness come from?Originally posted by das_hermit
We don't. All that we can know for sure are formal truths that would remain true in any possible world, irrespective of our own perception or existence, such as 1+1=2.
What I mean is, 'one' and 'two' are labels which correspond to things that happen in the world - sometimes there is one cow, sometimes there are two.
But if there were no instances of two anythings to the consciousness, wouldn't the labels dissolve, having nothing to correspond to?
Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2003 5:30 pm
Re: Re: Re: I couldn't let this one go unanswered.
So put your tongue away!
Again, I say in your dimension and on your fingers. Whose to say a different dimension has it a different way? We don't know that Frogus, so we can't comment.Originally posted by frogus
They are wrong, and a short demonstration with fingers will prove it.
So put your tongue away!Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2003 1:32 am
I love studying and discussing stuff like this.
@Nippy-Even if these Species Xians use the symbol "3" to refer to what we identify with the symbol "2", it's still the same idea. By the same token, to say I+I=II, or un+un=deux still expresses the same fundamental concept, that of + = .
The same thing can be said for the sum of angles in a triangle, or the fact that all points on a circle are equally distant from the circles center. Things like these are true by definition.
@Frogus-Even in the event of a single consciousness, it could still be said that theoretically if there were two of anything, then one of those things plus another of those things still would equal two of those things. Though the consciousness wouldn't necessarily be aware of the concept of multiple instances of anything, the concept would still apply.
Where this gets tricky for me is reconciling this with my recent conversion to Buddhism...it's hard to get the idea that there are no real distinctions between anything with the idea that 1+1=2 universally.
My head hurts just thinking about it...
@Nippy-Even if these Species Xians use the symbol "3" to refer to what we identify with the symbol "2", it's still the same idea. By the same token, to say I+I=II, or un+un=deux still expresses the same fundamental concept, that of
+ = .The same thing can be said for the sum of angles in a triangle, or the fact that all points on a circle are equally distant from the circles center. Things like these are true by definition.
@Frogus-Even in the event of a single consciousness, it could still be said that theoretically if there were two of anything, then one of those things plus another of those things still would equal two of those things. Though the consciousness wouldn't necessarily be aware of the concept of multiple instances of anything, the concept would still apply.
Where this gets tricky for me is reconciling this with my recent conversion to Buddhism...it's hard to get the idea that there are no real distinctions between anything with the idea that 1+1=2 universally.
My head hurts just thinking about it...
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2003 2:04 am
Re: Re: I couldn't let this one go unanswered.
actually + = in my plane...*cough* carry on nothing to see here i mean of course + =
just get on with your electronically generated lives and stop thinking about things that are of no consequence to anyone... s-t-o-p-r-e-a-d-i-n-g-t-h-i-s-t-h-r-e-a-d-i-t-i-s-n-o-t-g-o-o-d-f-o-r-y-o-u-y-o-u-d-o-n-o-t-l-i-k-e-t-h-i-s-t-h-r-e-a-d-a-n-d-w-i-l-l-g-o-t-o-b-e-d-a-n-d-f-or-g-e-t-e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g-y-o-u-h-a-v-e-s-e-e-n-i-n-t-h-i-s-t-h-r-e-a-d-.-.-.
Originally posted by Nippy
But how do we know that 1+1=2 on a different planet?! We know it is, but what about Species X on Planet Y? They say it equals 3!
actually
+ = in my plane...*cough* carry on nothing to see here i mean of course + = just get on with your electronically generated lives and stop thinking about things that are of no consequence to anyone... s-t-o-p-r-e-a-d-i-n-g-t-h-i-s-t-h-r-e-a-d-i-t-i-s-n-o-t-g-o-o-d-f-o-r-y-o-u-y-o-u-d-o-n-o-t-l-i-k-e-t-h-i-s-t-h-r-e-a-d-a-n-d-w-i-l-l-g-o-t-o-b-e-d-a-n-d-f-or-g-e-t-e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g-y-o-u-h-a-v-e-s-e-e-n-i-n-t-h-i-s-t-h-r-e-a-d-.-.-.